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Oliver1421

  • Karma: +9/-0
Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« on: April 15, 2016, 09:04:40 PM »
I'm going to be switching to long bolt Harman logs and snails so that will give me the option to jump to 3.5" exhaust. I currently have a 460 .030 over with a C&J built Holley, edelbrock performer intake, and MSD ignition, Hardin Marine logs and snails with 3" exhaust. What are your thoughts and opinions on jumping up to the larger size exhaust with the long bolt logs with this setup.
Thanks in advance guys!!


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2016, 12:05:56 AM »
I'm going to be switching to long bolt Harman logs and snails so that will give me the option to jump to 3.5" exhaust. I currently have a 460 .030 over with a C&J built Holley, edelbrock performer intake, and MSD ignition, Hardin Marine logs and snails with 3" exhaust. What are your thoughts and opinions on jumping up to the larger size exhaust with the long bolt logs with this setup.
Thanks in advance guys!!


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The 1/2" difference in inner diameter can be neutralized by a poor log design.

Depends on the log more than anything.

JMO

GT

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« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 08:21:41 AM by GT Jets »
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Oliver1421

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2016, 07:44:29 AM »

The 1/2" fierce difference in inner diameter can be neutralized by a poor log design.

Depends on the log nor than anything.

JMO

GT

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These are the new logs. From the research I have done, these are the best log manifolds for the 460.


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nwolt01

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 07:51:46 AM »
Long bolts are better.  I have had both.
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Oliver1421

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 08:18:11 AM »

Long bolts are better.  I have had both.

Just want to know if it's worth it for me to spend the time and money to jump up to 3.5" exhaust.


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nwolt01

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Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2016, 08:21:53 AM »
Jim has some for sale on here.  Not to bad of a price.   They are easier to install and they seat better to the block. 
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Oliver1421

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2016, 08:39:26 AM »

Jim has some for sale on here.  Not to bad of a price.   They are easier to install and they seat better to the block.

Sorry I guess what I said is confusing, I already have the long bolt logs and snails. The snails are stepped so u can run 3" or 3.5" exhaust. Switching to 3.5" means new exhaust hoses, new tips and cutting new holes in the transom. Just want to know if it's worth it.


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2016, 08:47:10 AM »
Sorry I guess what I said is confusing, I already have the long bolt logs and snails. The snails are stepped so u can run 3" or 3.5" exhaust. Switching to 3.5" means new exhaust hoses, new tips and cutting new holes in the transom. Just want to know if it's worth it.


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If you call about 30 rpm worth it, then yes.

It won't set the world on fire and the Ass-O-Nometer will likely not be able to tell the difference.

It will be a tiny bit louder.

I like to run rigid pipe for the hoses and cut down the amount of water through the exhaust a little. Makes a bigger difference as far as I am concerned.

If you were talking an inch or more, I would say go for it,  but for the half inch,  it feels like a wasted effort.

Could be wrong.

GT
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 10:55:53 AM by GT Jets »
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Oliver1421

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2016, 10:46:45 AM »

If you call about 30 rpm worth it, then yes.

It won't set the world on fire and the Ass-O-Nometer will likely not be able to tell the difference.

It will be a tiny bit louder.

I like to run rigid pipe for the hoses and cut down the amount of water through the exhaust a little. Make a bigger difference as far as I am concerned.

If you were talking am inch or more, I would say go for it,  but for the half inch,  it feels like a wasted effort.

Could be wrong.

GT

Thanks to you I will have plenty of beer money this weekend👍🏻


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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2016, 11:43:00 AM »
Sorry I guess what I said is confusing, I already have the long bolt logs and snails. The snails are stepped so u can run 3" or 3.5" exhaust. Switching to 3.5" means new exhaust hoses, new tips and cutting new holes in the transom. Just want to know if it's worth it.

I don't consider myself any kind of expert on log manifolds.  We have always considered them trash can ballast and have looked closer than to throw them on the scrap pile.

Knowing what I know about airflow as it pertains to intake and exhaust...

I believe that I have read that, to install the larger exhaust hose, the smaller boss is cut off.  If not, the minimum cross-section area is the same either way.  This would create a huge area of gaseous expansion where the velocity of the exhaust gasses leaving the log would slow considerably and become turbulent.

What does the inside of the outlet look like?  What will it look like if it is cut?

If you cut it and the opening remains small, I would say, there is no point in cutting it and it could do more harm than good.

Looking at the pictures, It looks like there is an abrupt step at the boss for the smaller hose.  I think having that bottleneck would be more detrimental to performance than anything else.  The shape of the inside of that bottleneck could make the cross-sectional area appear 30% smaller than it actually is, depending on how abrupt it is.

From an airflow standpoint, not taking into consideration design inefficiencies of the logs, you will need to make some pretty decent power to flow 3.5" exhaust.  For reference purposes, Flowmaster recommends dual 3.0" for a horsepower range of 350 to 450 and 3.5" for the 450 to 650 range, but I think that assumes headers.

To start, I would base any decision to modify your exhaust on the shape of the transition from the log outlet into the hose.

Good luck,

Joe

P.S.  I bet there is more performance to be gained by port matching.  Don't grind the outlet of the head to match the gasket.  Grind the logs to match the heads.  The opening of the logs can be intentionally larger than the head ports, however a smooth transition at the port roof is most beneficial, followed by a smooth transition along the sides.  On some engines, an international mismatch along the sides of the ports can get a little screwy around the bolt holes.  The floor should have an intentional mismatch of around an 1/8".  This restricts flow back into the port along the floor during conditions of reversion.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Oliver1421

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2016, 12:09:58 PM »
There is definitely an evident step on the inside of the 3.5 to 3" step. So do u think I should run my other set of snails because they are straight 3" outlets? I know I'm probably in the 350hp range if I'm lucky.


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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Stock 460 exhaust size 3" or 3.5"
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2016, 01:23:57 PM »
There is definitely an evident step on the inside of the 3.5 to 3" step. So do u think I should run my other set of snails because they are straight 3" outlets? I know I'm probably in the 350hp range if I'm lucky.

At this point, I would say, save your money.  It would be worth looking into if you were trying to maximize your combination, but not at that level.
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