Keeping in mind that BBF's are significantly cheaper to build a big stroker motor out of, what tech facts are you interested in?

i have all the facts i need, that being said it's just personal preferance and what i know

From what I've read about John Kaase in this case is that it dont matter what you build . Its who builds it .

-beerjet-

For CHEAP HORSEPOWER,its FORD!!!!!! 514,533,or 557" easily available in any block, most 70s blocks will bore .080 or more! minimal to NO grinding to clear anything in the crankcase, cast steel Scat or Eagle kit is cheap! No cam interference problems,tall deck height,(6.7 or 6.8 rods fit easily), front oil sump easier to fit into boat,the "small port" heads out flow a BBC oval port head, (intake side)and you can put in big valves(and not necessarily 460 or other BBF valves either, hint,hint), they also have a 1.73 rocker ratio. Heads and blocks are cheaper, ARP main studs will work fine in a 2 bolt block (factory stuff) to 600 HP easily,(you MUST line hone it!),timing is more stable with dist in front(for those of you that don't use crank triggers), a larger dist gear means more stable timing too. The oiling system needs work by someone that knows what it needs, we charge about $60.00 for those mods.The Ford "Blue grommet" ignition box will operate UNDER WATER! and its spark output is great, we use it for our less than maximum effort boat motors, of any brand,and it will trigger from any bodys electronic distributor. For 500-650 HP Ford has the best bang for the buck. I have run and build all of the motors through the years, including hi-perf stroker 540+" Cadillacs! I would never take out a Ford to put in a Chevy. Look for a Ford engine tell all article in Hotboat early next year. I personally have no brand preferences, you can make anything RUN!! We have done Studebaker/Avanti motors as well as Hudson Hornets,409 Chevys and believe it or not, a fair share of hot rod forklift motors!  It is just physics and air flow. LET THE S--TSTORM BEGIN!!!!   TIMINATOR

he-he-he

I'd like to see statistics on who's acrross the finish line first the most... 

this isnt factual, but if you think about the percent of chevy vs others
80%chev
10%ford
5%mopar
5%other
what do you think happens when you play the average.

sorry to get off topic

I think you could go all day on this subject.  As the daughter of a mechanic of all kinds who was solely on the Chevy side, I think it all boils down to what you put into it.  Whatever the maker it performs based on you.  If you pay attention to it and give it what it needs it will perform at it's best.   If you ignore it and just expect it to perform and maintain on it's own then you get what you get and probably complain about it.  Every motor whether it is of the same maker is different in some slight way and has different needs.  Bottom line is you decide whether it is the best or not.  Good luck with your decision.  Raised on Chevy and currently driving Ford...I have no complaints either way.

Well in the Nostalgia Jet Class there are two Big Bad Fords leading the points out of 6 boats and one will be Region 12 Nostalgia Jet Champion for 2007. Now no Chevy can say that !

Well in the Nostalgia Jet Class there are two Big Bad Fords leading the points out of 6 boats and one will be Region 12 Nostalgia Jet Champion for 2007. Now no Chevy can say that !

Very true . Consistancy is where it's at . There is always next year . 

-beerjet-

Well in the Nostalgia Jet Class there are two Big Bad Fords leading the points out of 6 boats and one will be Region 12 Nostalgia Jet Champion for 2007. Now no Chevy can say that !

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the winner will be between a semi-tired 454 Chevy and a fresh full roller 540 Ford. That has nothing to do with Ford vs. Chevy.    I'm looking forward to next year's races with a lot more Chevy's, a lot more experience, and a lot more competition in general. Who knows? By the time I get out there I might win a bottle of Patron. 

Back with more facts: 454 rod ratio=1.534  460=1.716, Ford can allways have a longer rod due to the taller deck, Ford taller deck gives wider intake manafold with longer runners = more torque/midrange, but can be compensated for with larger runners for more top end, also has lesser runner angle. Chevy bore size = 4.250, Ford bore size = 4.360, that extra .110 gives less valve shrouding for better air flow, also the combustion chamber on the Chevy is about .600 WIDER than the bore! That causes major shrouding and less airflow/horsepower. There are ways around most everything, moral of the story, build what you have or want. It is a personal decision. I have a bunch of Chevys, but thats what my boats came with, except the one with the (now) 533 Ford, and one with an Olds, but then again, I build a killer Olds too.....   TIMINATOR    P.S. I took the Ford position because I felt that since there were less Ford builders, there would be less good Ford info.

I don't understand most of that but it sounds like pretty important stuff!   

who's got the 540 roller
i think i have the most cid 502 the chebby's are 496

woops, you have the 540 roller  , Omar's is a 454, 468 at best, Jim has a Ford, uhmmm...






Look to your left quick!   







                                                                                                                             I'm outta here. 

Thumbs up to ALL American V-8s! If it is jet with Americam V-8 who cares? Let's stick together before some 4 stroke Honda weedwacker smokes us. This is our heritage! BIG V-8s that chug gas and smoke ass! My 2 cents.

Not talking about small block's because we're talking about boats? I thought it was a Ford vs. Chevrolet thread, do we need to stay on the 454 460 topic so that Ford has a chance to win? Besides, there's a small block post'er on this site that will smoke allmost all of the big block's on here!

Good call.  I just like engines, however under current circumstances I suppose I fall under the Ford catagory. My little 16' Bezer has a Ford 408W stroker with Victor Jr heads 11:1 full roller bla bla bla...  I was building a nice BBC for my self to go into a 20' Spectra Project (engine can be seen now installed in the Miller thread started by my dad), but then I bought the Glastron which has an original Berkeley Pack-a-jet 460.  As great as that old engine runs I'm now going to build a 429.  I gave thought to putting the BBC in it but I'd rather stick with original hardware.  my .02 -Josh

That's why I was disappoiinted there wasn't a Mopar choice! That's why the "other" got my  vote

this isnt factual, but if you think about the percent of chevy vs others
80%chev
10%ford
5%mopar
5%other
what do you think happens when you play the average.

sorry to get off topic

It depends on what finish line you're refering to:
In drag racing -
Powering John force in his Funny car Ford is well, a Mopar Hemi
In fact EVERY top fuel and Funny car is Mopar powered.

Getting into the stock ranks, it's always full of Mopars.

Drifiting- who is the champ? Oh yea he's mopar powered too.

Looking at random Top Fuel boat websites like http://topfueldragboat.com/driver.htm what's on the front - Yep a blown Mopar Hemi - same here http://www.toxicrocket.com/gallery.htm and here http://www.speedsportstopfuel.com/stats.htm .....

Where are the Mopar powered boats ? Just look for the FAST ones! :-)

Us Mopar guys are always forgotten,  hell even the poll doesn't have us listed  - I guess that's 'cause you only get to see the rear of the mopars so they aren't as evident...

We'll see where my Mopar stoker build takes me as I yank out the 455.

I went into the 12's in a 4800 lb 3/4 ton van powered by a 440, so I'm pretty sure they can power a boat.

As far as the tech specs - I never hear about broken cranks like the chevys have, or the broken bottom ends / blocks like the Fords. I never hear about any oiling problems below 7000 RPM either - and above that it is one oil line to fix.

Mopar's have the strongest bottom ends, and can easily stroke to 543. With an aftermarket block 630 is possible. A STOCK block and crank is good for 800 HP, with 2 bolt mains! Crossbolting the block, or better still, double crossbolting like aftermarket does, allows over 7000 HP (KB aftermarket block). The cooling system is great compared to other brands. The oil system doesn't feed the rear bearing unfiltered oil like the Chevys, and there isn't a convoluted pickup / oil pump system like in the fords.

Mopars have external oil pumps, meaning A ) the distributor is in the front where it belongs, and B)the oil pump can be swapped out with anything you have room for. No Crank interferance. No pulling the distributor during an intake swap. My oil pump fits nice and can pump 20 GPM. A swap takes a few minutes, and I don't have to crack the pan. Windage trays are easy (15 min install, doesn't touch the mains), and the oil pan doesn't have anything to do with the crank seal. If you need a mondo oil system for sustained high RPM, one external -16 line, 7 inches long straight to the external pump, will take care of all the oiling needs.

When you pull the distributor, the gear stays with the intermediate shaft - meaning the disti can only go back in two ways. No way to be off a tooth, you are either 180 out or right on. Neither Ford or GM can say that.

Water systems , oil, and intake is separated. You can break or modify one without touching the other.

Shaft mounted rockers are stronger than the stud mounted ones, doing a 600 lbs spring is really no big deal.

The short mopar bigblock is taller than the TALL race chevy block. Stock they can go bigger. Rod ratio is favored to the Mopar, esp whe the 440 crank is put into the shorter block (400), 1.8:1

The drawbacks are the pistons are heavy - so you swap it out for chevy .990 pins and 7.1 inch rods, and with a stoker crank and short pistons, and suddenly your combo has less bobweight than a smallblock. Also, the short valve was a drawback, but now that so many people are making heads, they are all long valve and flow a ton of air.


The bore size for the BB Mopar is 4.340 in the 400, so with max overbore, you are at 4.4! Talk about unshrouding the valve!

They are also Nitrous Oxide friendly - even a cast piston 440 can handle a 175 shot time after time.

In reality, I like anything that goes fast, so if that means taking my strong Mopar block and Crank, putting Chevy rods and pins and Ford Pistons to go fast - I'm all for it. I'm sure all of you will have a chance to show me how much faster your Chevys and Fords are next year at the river :-)

Bore and stroke baby - give me as much as I can get....