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BlueBayouRacing

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Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« on: July 30, 2017, 12:55:35 PM »
Do supercharged engines suffer equally from exhaust reversion like an NA engine with a larger overlapping camshaft? Does supercharging have a mitigating effect on reversion? I ask because i am currently working on a supercharged/intercooled combination for a 21ft Placecraft and i am considering running a crane roller camshaft that i have on the shelf. I intend to run lightning jacketed tubular headers with a long collector and water/exhaust mixing as far from the exhaust port as possible (with some consideration to the noise levels). The proposed camshaft has the following specs: 260/270 I/E duration, 110 lobe center, .663/.638 I/E lift. I ran this camshaft and solid roller lifters in a previous blown engine (mild setup) with success. If the proposed camshaft makes sense for my new project I would want to run hydraulic rollers this time.

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks in advance. CK
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GT Jets

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2017, 01:47:46 PM »
Do supercharged engines suffer equally from exhaust reversion like an NA engine with a larger overlapping camshaft? Does supercharging have a mitigating effect on reversion? I ask because i am currently working on a supercharged/intercooled combination for a 21ft Placecraft and i am considering running a crane roller camshaft that i have on the shelf. I intend to run lightning jacketed tubular headers with a long collector and water/exhaust mixing as far from the exhaust port as possible (with some consideration to the noise levels). The proposed camshaft has the following specs: 260/270 I/E duration, 110 lobe center, .663/.638 I/E lift. I ran this camshaft and solid roller lifters in a previous blown engine (mild setup) with success. If the proposed camshaft makes sense for my new project I would want to run hydraulic rollers this time.

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks in advance. CK

It should not experience any reversion issues, but at he same time, you need to be mindful that excessive blower surge can pull a vacuum during the upswing in RPM. You need to keep the idle high enough to keep the blower speed up enough to keep a slight positive. I would say about 1,100 RPM with that combo....

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

BlueBayouRacing

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2017, 03:10:06 PM »
That is what i was thinking too. bummer part about that is blower surge is my favorite thing about running blown gas.
Thanks for the reply GT.
CK
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 05:34:04 PM by BlueBayouRacing »
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Flusher

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 01:54:29 AM »
Looks like that cam has 298/308-degrees advertised duration which would put it at 83-degrees of overlap.

The overlap (point about TDC where both valves are open) is the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of the intake stroke.  The scavenging affect of the mass of the exhaust gasses moving down the header primaries pulls on the intake and begins the intake cycle before the piston changes direction at TDC.

Too much overlap for a given application leads to reversion at all RPM.  Primary factors that contribute to this include displacement and low-lift valve flow.  This is compounded by two intake valves being open simultaneously with a single plane intake.  The pressure in the exhaust can be much greater than in the intake.

Ideally, you want just enough overlap to evacuate the entire cylinder of exhaust gas and replace it with fresh intake charge.  The problem is that at all other RPM below peak power (hopefully), reversion can and does occur to some extent.  Some so bad exhaust stains are present in the intake manifold.

The blower will not produce sufficient boost to overcome exhaust system pressure at idle, where the blower inlet is restricted the most by a closed throttle.  Only when the blower can breathe does it have potential to produce boost.

Using my combination as an example, I run wet through transom Bassett headers with a ball valve at the seat to turn the water to the primaries off.  I do not restrict cooling water flow to the engine.  Lastly, every drop of water that goes through the engine dumps into the collectors.

My engine pulses to about 2800 RPM and we idle it down to further accentuate the blower surge.  It does not smooth out until after 3700 RPM.

With water-jacketed headers you won't experience the learning curve I had with the ball valve.  Turn the water off BEFORE coming off plane with enough time for the pressure in the lines to drop.

Wet flow reduces horsepower.  I would recommend restricting the wet flow to the collectors so there is only enough water (with a safety factor) to cool the exhaust hose.  Dump the rest overboard so that flow through the engine is not restricted.

Restricting the wet flow through the collectors will allow you to achieve all of your objectives with the least loss of power and still strut the surge.

Good luck,

Joe

P.S.  If you have a blower manifold that has water ports in the four corners, make sure that you have equal flow through both sides of the engine, and out of the timing cover end of the manifold.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

BlueBayouRacing

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 06:30:14 PM »
Flusher,
Thank you for taking the time to write out such a detailed response. I have a better idea of what i am up against now.
Thanks again.
CK
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rivrrts429

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 08:14:05 PM »
Im running a solid roller Lunati .254/.259 duration, 112 lobe separation, .703/.693 lift on a 1071 blown 509" and zero issues on reversion.

Anything can get reversion if your not thorough with your setup but blower motors don't tend to have that issue much.

The surge is cool the first one or two times but sucks for any kind of decent dock manors. I'm going to dial back the surge when the motor goes back to the builder for a health check up this winter.



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BlueBayouRacing

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 08:47:15 PM »
Im running a solid roller Lunati .254/.259 duration, 112 lobe separation, .703/.693 lift on a 1071 blown 509" and zero issues on reversion.

Anything can get reversion if your not thorough with your setup but blower motors don't tend to have that issue much.

The surge is cool the first one or two times but sucks for any kind of decent dock manors. I'm going to dial back the surge when the motor goes back to the builder for a health check up this winter.




What type of exhaust are you running with this setup? Any specifics (collector length or any other special features) that you can include about the exhaust would be greatly appreciated. CK
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rivrrts429

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 08:58:52 PM »

What type of exhaust are you running with this setup? Any specifics (collector length or any other special features) that you can include about the exhaust would be greatly appreciated. CK

HiTech built my pump and supplied my headers. They're the jacketed stainless steel with the so-called anti reversion tubes on the website, maybe a 14" collector. Scroll down from this link.

http://www.hi-techperformance.com/other-hi-performance-parts.html

I wasn't sure what to expect from a quality standpoint but 5 years, 1100 horse, and they're run really hard and they still look and run like new. No leaks or cracks and no reversion issues.
  • Boat #1: 21' Bitz Custom
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BlueBayouRacing

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Re: Reversion with respect to Supercharging
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2017, 06:49:37 PM »
HiTech built my pump and supplied my headers. They're the jacketed stainless steel with the so-called anti reversion tubes on the website, maybe a 14" collector. Scroll down from this link.

http://www.hi-techperformance.com/other-hi-performance-parts.html

I wasn't sure what to expect from a quality standpoint but 5 years, 1100 horse, and they're run really hard and they still look and run like new. No leaks or cracks and no reversion issues.

Thanks a bunch for that info. I just checked out their page and I think I found my new headers.
CK
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