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barracudajet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Water in cylinders
« on: July 14, 2015, 07:26:27 pm »
My last 2 trips out I locked up my engine with water in several cylinders. 2000 ultra with stock, I think marine power 454. Barr exaust manifolds with 4in outlets exiting under the waterline with inside flappers. No restrictor on engine water but it all looks factory on a 2000 boat. Any sage advice?
  • Boat #1: 2000 Ultra 21
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 08:32:03 pm »
Are the risers separate from the manifolds. If so, gasket time.

How slow does it idle?
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

barracudajet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 09:32:56 pm »
Yes. There is a plate blocking off between top and bottom. I just cleaned up the surfaces and made new gaskets and sealed it with hightemp permatex before last trip. I think one of your posts suggested 1000, 1100. I'm sure it's idling a lot lower that that. Probably near 700. Dash gauge seems pretty jumpy.
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GT Jets

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Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 09:57:27 pm »
Yes. There is a plate blocking off between top and bottom. I just cleaned up the surfaces and made new gaskets and sealed it with hightemp permatex before last trip. I think one of your posts suggested 1000, 1100. I'm sure it's idling a lot lower that that. Probably near 700. Dash gauge seems pretty jumpy.

Idling too slow can do some weird stuff.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 09:59:00 pm »
What cylinders?
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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Ray

barracudajet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 07:31:37 am »
I didn't think of making a note of that. But for sure #2 had a lot last time and was dry this time and just the opposite for # 7. I bought a brass ball valve to put before the tee to try and cut down the water some. Pulling the plugs involves removing the hatch and interior panels and when I'm cranking it I can't see the plug holes. Do you recommend a pressure relief, and is a dump line the same as the lines leading to the risers that dump into the exaust? Thanks for replying to my post by the way. I appreciate it.
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el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2015, 08:25:53 am »
I run Mercruiser Center Rise aluminum exhaust manifolds with no pressure relief valve. Pump thru valve to front of block out of tstat housing and exiting into exhaust. BBC 454.  No issues yet
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2015, 09:57:20 am »
I didn't think of making a note of that. But for sure #2 had a lot last time and was dry this time and just the opposite for # 7. I bought a brass ball valve to put before the tee to try and cut down the water some. Pulling the plugs involves removing the hatch and interior panels and when I'm cranking it I can't see the plug holes. Do you recommend a pressure relief, and is a dump line the same as the lines leading to the risers that dump into the exaust? Thanks for replying to my post by the way. I appreciate it.

You don't (IMHO) require a pressure relief.

I would however recommend you pressure check the cooling system.

If it were mine, I would replace the flappers and install a gate valve instead of s ball valve.

What temperature does she run?

GT

Sent from my SCH-I545 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

barracudajet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2015, 08:46:45 pm »
It seems to run about 155/165. My flappers are inside the exaust tips and swing freely, and they have the rubber trim pieces intact. They "appear"to be in good order. By pressure test do you mean put a gauge somewhere and check it running or close everything off and check for a leak?
  • Boat #1: 2000 Ultra 21
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2015, 09:55:45 pm »
It seems to run about 155/165. My flappers are inside the exaust tips and swing freely, and they have the rubber trim pieces intact. They "appear"to be in good order. By pressure test do you mean put a gauge somewhere and check it running or close everything off and check for a leak?

Pretty much

I have found the easiest way to check them is to use the main inlet line to pressurize and take the riser hoses and cross connect them on the engine. Making no outlet

Use air to pressurize to about 15psi. you should be able to hear the air.
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 10:00:24 pm »
Hhmmm.

Im just gonna put it out there.  Sounds like a perfect candidate for a Relief Set-up

 >:D
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2015, 10:08:04 pm »
Hhmmm.

Im just gonna put it out there.  Sounds like a perfect candidate for a Relief Set-up

 >:D

Hahaha. I compare the relief valve kits to a second ass hole.

Most of us just don't need one. 


Hahaha. ...Lmao

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2015, 10:38:50 pm »
I dont know Im a dirty mofo I do love a Rusty Trombone
My lady wouldnt dig it though


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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2015, 10:53:25 pm »
You need this to keep your head gaskets from blowing.

I use it to blow GTs head gasket.

You cant have this one I got it for GT jets as a stalking stuffer.  Secret Santa SSSHHHH. :-*
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GT Jets

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Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2015, 11:03:14 pm »
You need this to keep your head gaskets from blowing.

I use it to blow GTs head gasket.

You cant have this one I got it for GT jets as a stalking stuffer.  Secret Santa SSSHHHH. :-*

Is that a dousche nozzle? Looks like you could rinse off your nuts and flush the bung hole simultaneously.

Not sure I need one in the boat.

Maybe. ..

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2015, 11:21:56 pm »
Shit your right no one was suppose to see that photo from my phone.  My bad
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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GT Jets

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Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2015, 11:32:55 pm »
Shit your right no one was suppose to see that photo from my phone.  My bad

LMAO

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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Ray

barracudajet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2015, 07:01:46 am »
It sounds like you guys, well never mind. I put in that valve and set the idle up to 1100. I haven't got any milk in the oil. I have a vacuum tester with a gauge on it, I should be able to rig up something. I'll find out in two weeks at lake Mojave. Thanks for the info.
  • Boat #1: 2000 Ultra 21
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SoCalPSD

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2015, 10:16:35 am »
You need this to keep your head gaskets from blowing.

I use it to blow GTs head gasket.

You cant have this one I got it for GT jets as a stalking stuffer.  Secret Santa SSSHHHH. :-*

Wait......what is that......do my eyes decieve me Glenn?  Ido believe theres a gate valve infront of that pressure regulator.....
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2015, 11:41:12 am »
Wait......what is that......do my eyes decieve me Glenn?  Ido believe theres a gate valve infront of that pressure regulator.....

Does seem a little suspect don't it?

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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2015, 11:58:25 am »
Well that was a random pic although I do want the gate for what a gate was intended for which is on/off operation.  So for emergency yes a gate to close is good to stop water

Gates are not for throttling flow.  Yes you can hit a sweet spot on most boats I couldn't get it in the sweet spot had to use the Pressure regulator/relief so I eliminated the need to throttle any kind of valve for flow through my block by regulating pressure (using a gauge to set and see a known pressure)before it enters.  Im not saying anything to argue just saying how I experienced my block pressure issue to be solved.  The pressure is set before it enters the block so no big pressure surge from the pump and still has good water flow. 

I'll finish by saying this on your garden hose at home when does your Gate valve on your hose bib do most of its work = At first Open/close spot of turning the valve anymore from near closed doesn't do much.  So there is the problem of the gate to regulate.
Granted Gallon in Gallon out if the discharge is as large as the intake and the water rushes out the block as fast as it enters you wont have excess block pressure. Theres just no restriction your gate isnt doing much. 

Im gonna bring some analog gauges pump Coreolis meter pressure regulator and some beer over so we can play myth busters.

No doubt the gate is cheapest route all smack talk aside the relief setup fixed my problem on my boat and if you have issues with excess pressure I didn't believe when I first heard about it because I had to think about the process for a few days but I swear by it now.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 12:30:51 pm by jet fever »
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SoCalPSD

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Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2015, 11:03:04 pm »
Dont worry bro, i ran a gate valve and pressure regulator to. Im not judging you.
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selbycnlb

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2015, 10:35:55 pm »
I hooked a 30 psi pressure gauge on my outlet and was able to find the sweet spot with the gate valve and have found no water in oil since. I was running 50 plus psi prior to putting the gauge on. Now it runs between 1-8psi and my temp is 120 little cool but that's ok with me I'd give a little performance over having steam pockets.


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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2015, 05:46:21 am »
Exactly.  It only gets to 120 cause it rushes through so fast. Which is fine if you don't mind the cool temp

The pressure is the enemy (well excess is)

The Temp is a another item to address (which was why I got a Tstat because my personal choice was Id rather have 160 temp) but I run in lakes not shallow sandy waters

« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 05:55:36 am by jet fever »
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Re: Water in cylinders
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2015, 08:33:23 am »
I hooked a 30 psi pressure gauge on my outlet and was able to find the sweet spot with the gate valve and have found no water in oil since. I was running 50 plus psi prior to putting the gauge on. Now it runs between 1-8psi and my temp is 120 little cool but that's ok with me I'd give a little performance over having steam pockets.


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What temp does she idle?  It's should be about 150°F or slightly below.

The valve gets adjusted at idle because that is where the engine is making the least amount of heat.

It's the strange flow characteristics of s gate valve that makes it work. I have found a 3/4" valve works the best as far as being able to dial it in. The 1/2" valves are too temperamental IMO. Ball valves flow characteristics are backwards for what you are looking to do.

GT

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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

 


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