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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Water Pressure
« on: September 05, 2014, 09:04:32 pm »
I just want to put this out there indirectly to anyone and just as general knowledge

Gate valves DO NOT and were NOT intended to control pressure.  As in the pressure coming from your pump to you engine cooling system.  That is for water volume not pressure.

  Yes large exits with gate valve at the inlet lets water pass through your block and have no pressure issues.  For some set ups this is not the case. 

Forget temp just talking PRESSURE. To help regulate pressure to the block people use relief valve on the coolant inlet to the block which is a suggestion as a tool to help fix a pressure issue.

you have an inlet and outlet of an engine block.  If you have too much coming in the front end and not enough out the back end pressure will build in the middle (which is inside your engine)

some people have pressure issues some don't. 

some let high pressure run fast through a gate inlet and out the back end quickly enough the pressure does not build inside the block and they have no issue.  In no way does that control pressure it just does not allow it to build.

Anyway I know were all tired of this just trying to get people to think of the pressure subject
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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 09:53:33 pm »
I just want to put this out there indirectly to anyone and just as general knowledge

Gate valves DO NOT and were NOT intended to control pressure.  As in the pressure coming from your pump to you engine cooling system.  That is for water volume not pressure.

  Yes large exits with gate valve at the inlet lets water pass through your block and have no pressure issues.  For some set ups this is not the case. 

Forget temp just talking PRESSURE. To help regulate pressure to the block people use relief valve on the coolant inlet to the block which is a suggestion as a tool to help fix a pressure issue.

you have an inlet and outlet of an engine block.  If you have too much coming in the front end and not enough out the back end pressure will build in the middle (which is inside your engine)

some people have pressure issues some don't. 

some let high pressure run fast through a gate inlet and out the back end quickly enough the pressure does not build inside the block and they have no issue.  In no way does that control pressure it just does not allow it to build.

Anyway I know were all tired of this just trying to get people to think of the pressure subject


Can we have some examples of what set ups that are "not the case?"

I'm confused... I thought a 3/4" gate valve can supply enough cooling to keep a 1,200 HP Blown and injected 540 cool... Not the case?

GT
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Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 10:13:08 pm »
Just something to keep in mind while plumbing.  There have been multiple people with the issue of not setting it up correctly and or don't know why they have excess block pressure and milkshake oil don't you agree? 
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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 10:17:25 pm »
Just something to keep in mind while plumbing.  There have been multiple people with the issue of not setting it up correctly and or don't know why they have excess block pressure and milkshake oil don't you agree?

Goes without saying... What does that have to do with the gate valve though?

You can set any system up wrong and have excess pressure... Really doesn't matter what the system has on it (or does not have).

Are we on the same page?  ???

GT
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Ray

Unoistheone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 10:20:19 pm »
Would to high of water pressure be why when i was on the water today at needles two of my freeze plugs got pin hole sized leaks in them...?


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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 10:21:52 pm »
Would to high of water pressure be why when i was on the water today at needles two of my freeze plugs got pin hole sized leaks in them...?


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No. I think that is just old chit.

Sorry, jacked your thread JF
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Ray

Unoistheone

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 10:26:03 pm »
Thanks GT. But back to water pressure, what kind of psi should a system be running JF.


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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 10:26:49 pm »
I dont think people think about it in those terms.  The guy with 1250hp motor or whatever u said can most likely set it up.  There are a few guys who have the issue and IMO I see the subject come up alot on my theres milkshake and what to do about it.  My two Chevys I only needed a gate.  My Ford liked the relief.  You have 30yrs as a pro right not everyone does.  Ive suggested you gate setup and youve given them the procedure to adjust it.  Im just debating an alternative.  I seened it work with my own 2 eyes. 
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lbhsbz

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 10:33:28 pm »
Feel the need to chime in...sorry...

Pressure is a function of resistance against a given flow...there are two ways to reduce pressure...increase outflow or decrease inflow.  Pressure is a function of resistance against flow.  Open the valve from the pump and increase  the size of the dump line = better cooling.  It's all about balance.
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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 10:41:38 pm »
Thanks GT. But back to water pressure, what kind of psi should a system be running JF.


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It is my humble opinion that block pressure should never exceed about 20 or so pounds at WOT. A tyical car radiator cap blows off at 14022 PSI depending on the vehicle. That is where the number came from.

I dont think people think about it in those terms.  The guy with 1250hp motor or whatever u said can most likely set it up.  There are a few guys who have the issue and IMO I see the subject come up alot on my theres milkshake and what to do about it.  My two Chevys I only needed a gate.  My Ford liked the relief.  You have 30yrs as a pro right not everyone does.  Ive suggested you gate setup and youve given them the procedure to adjust it.  Im just debating an alternative.  I seened it work with my own 2 eyes.

I never one time said it does not work. That is where you keep losing me... I said on a proper set up it is not necessary. Two entirely different things, no?

In most of the cases I have been involved with (including my neighbors Tahiti) they over think it to hell... Ball valves on the dump lines, double dump lines, thermostats, washers with holes in them... One valve, one time set up, no moving parts. What is easier than that?

My pops Southwind with the small block has a CP stat kit on it, for all intensive purposes, it works, but at the same time, it has a 140°F stat and a gate valve. The weird part is, even though it has Nicson logs and OT pipes, I installed a dump line and a Bassett tee to prevent water inversion, the cam is ridiculous....

It runs absolutley perfect, it took me less than five minutes to adjust the valve and it never skipped a beat.

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  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 10:44:17 pm »
Exactly si why not have assurance of setting up a relief with a known number value on the Inlet? Simple as that.  My regulator is set at 12psi. 
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jet fever

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 10:54:53 pm »
Well next time GT we can measure di♢s and discuss it
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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 10:55:25 pm »
Exactly si why not have assurance of setting up a relief with a known number value on the Inlet? Simple as that.  My regulator is set at 12psi.

I am not saying the relief is not "A" way to go. But again, if three or four simple parts are correct, it is absolutely not needed...

Here is my fear.

Someone reading this reads all I need to do is install a relief valve and I don't need anything else...


It has the potential to corrode in the closed position, meaning when you "Need" it to relive, it can be stuck closed. That valve is not rated for gnarly ass lake water, it is rated for potable or treated water.

Why not use a cheap gate valve to keep the water from entering to begin with? I really am having a problem understanding why you think it is so different.

I like the gate valve for several reasons, but the main one is that the CV is reverse of an actual control valve, meaning it flows "easier" with less pressure than it does with more. In other words, the more pressure you put to it, the more restrictive it becomes... for free, with no moving parts.

A control valve (like a globe or a balance valve) has a CV that is linear, menaing the CV stays constant, more pressure=more flow in a linear pattern. Undesirable for what we need.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2014, 10:56:29 pm »
Wait just to be clear not each others
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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 10:57:19 pm »
Feel the need to chime in...sorry...

Pressure is a function of resistance against a given flow...there are two ways to reduce pressure...increase outflow or decrease inflow.  Pressure is a function of resistance against flow.  Open the valve from the pump and increase  the size of the dump line = better cooling.  It's all about balance.

At least I have someone in my corner....  :thumbup:


Well next time GT we can measure di♢s and discuss it

No need, you think I AM a dick and I'm 6'6"... I win.  >:D


GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

 


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