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Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: 79charger on August 13, 2009, 01:00:56 PM

Title: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: 79charger on August 13, 2009, 01:00:56 PM
I have a Msd coil and a mallory dist, with a pertronix igniter , would there be any benefit for a 6al? Thanks
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: crewchief22 on August 13, 2009, 05:46:02 PM
Normally you will have a noticeable improvement with the MSD, but depending on what tach you have you might need to add a tach adapter or a new tach also.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on August 13, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
I'm so over these effing msd boxes...anyone who races always carry one or 2 more of these things as spares...why its made in china bs now...is the benefit worth the price tag?
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: 76NORDIC on August 13, 2009, 05:54:34 PM
Ya I dig on my basic plug and play MSD marine dizzy, no box no nada, drop it in set it and FORGET it :thumbup:
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on August 13, 2009, 06:58:25 PM
Ask Brad or Ralph.....fkn CRAP   :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: pw_Tony on August 13, 2009, 07:01:45 PM
After burning up enough boxes, running the "ready to run" MSD distributor and coil now, with rubber boot over the top.... no problems since  8)

But I do like to have the feature of a rev limiter
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on August 13, 2009, 07:06:43 PM
CONGRATS TO MARK...aka "NANCY BOY"  (76 Nordic)

On his way to become a "ASE CERTIFIED ENGINE MACHINEST" after hard training.  :thumbup: :thumbup:

GOOD JOB NANCY! ;D :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on August 13, 2009, 07:14:40 PM
the benifit of running MSD is a feeling of being let down and someone kicking your dog.

makes you angry and sad at the same time.

i spent about $600 for my MSD setup. ....box, coil, dizzy, wires, etc...and not to mention another coil, cap/rotor, gear, more wires while troubleshooting its problems - another few hundred bucks later and still banging my head on the wall  :banghead:

...i just picked up a near new mallory sprint mag for about 1/2 the cost.

i havent heard anything good about MSD lately...anyone who was around my pits on saturday knows what im talking about.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: 79charger on August 13, 2009, 07:19:46 PM
well guess i have my answer i will stick with what works then . thanks
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Stevecat on August 13, 2009, 07:51:41 PM
Quote from: 79charger on August 13, 2009, 07:19:46 PM
well guess i have my answer i will stick with what works then . thanks

Great question! Thanks for asking it - now I know what to do too!!  8)
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on August 13, 2009, 08:53:12 PM
Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on August 13, 2009, 07:14:40 PM
the benifit of running MSD is a feeling of being let down and someone kicking your dog.

makes you angry and sad at the same time.

i spent about $600 for my MSD setup. ....box, coil, dizzy, wires, etc...and not to mention another coil, cap/rotor, gear, more wires while troubleshooting its problems - another few hundred bucks later and still banging my head on the wall  :banghead:

...i just picked up a near new mallory sprint mag for about 1/2 the cost.

i havent heard anything good about MSD lately...anyone who was around my pits on saturday knows what im talking about.
      Well said Brad    :thumbup:
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Marcsrollin on August 13, 2009, 09:20:08 PM
As I am reading this post there is a MSD banner across the bottom of the page! :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Luckie Stiff on August 13, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: Marcsrollin on August 13, 2009, 09:20:08 PM
As I am reading this post there is a MSD banner across the bottom of the page! :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

Gotta love Google Ad Sense, scans the page and places a banner ad relevant to the topic.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: LakesOnly on August 13, 2009, 11:37:00 PM
Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on August 13, 2009, 07:14:40 PM
the benifit of running MSD is a feeling of being let down and someone kicking your dog.

makes you angry and sad at the same time.

i spent about $600 for my MSD setup. ....box, coil, dizzy, wires, etc...and not to mention another coil, cap/rotor, gear, more wires while troubleshooting its problems - another few hundred bucks later and still banging my head on the wall  :banghead:

...i just picked up a near new mallory sprint mag for about 1/2 the cost.

i havent heard anything good about MSD lately...anyone who was around my pits on saturday knows what im talking about.
Hey Brad what you could have done instead of the M$D is gone with a recurved OEM Ford Dura-Spark distributor and Dura-Spark ignition box. The M$D's magnetic pickup coil and reluctor (both under the cap) are Ford units, you know. This is why the M$D instuctions include hooking up their dizzy to a Dura-Spark box

My partners have run these setups way past 200 mph and I know others that use them way past 8000 rpm. Built Ford tough.

LO
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: IRRebel on August 14, 2009, 12:30:10 AM
I'm still kinda sold on my Mallory systems? Went and checked both of them, yeah, NOT made in China. Nor is the Vertex Mag unit going on the Stealth dealio. Dunno if the new Mallory stuff is Chinese or not, I wouldn't chink so............... >:D (THAT was BADDDDD)

But, guys, Chinese manufacture is a fact of the times pioneered way back when with Nixon. WE're just gonna have to deal with it sooner or later!

Sux I know! But, MSD, as a BRAND, I steer clear from. Digital ignitions in general on the other hand? Well, you'd have a very hard argument trying to tell me they're not far more accurate and reliable than points. Just be careful and match your componenets well. I run Unilite Dizzys with Hyfire 6AL's and a ProCoil.

The only alternatives are a sophisticated crank trigger/computer system or a magneto.

Ray
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: electrowoman on August 14, 2009, 07:32:29 AM
I've run the 6AL box for years, on everything from the boat to the drag cars.  I must have been lucky
as I've never had a failure.
I'm running the 6AL with the MSD ready to run marine distributor. 
No problems.
I do have it ready for a plug and play in the event of the MSD failure.  That doesn't mean I expect
it to fail just I like to be ready.
I've run mallory too with no problems.  My opinion is everything works till it breaks.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: stc315 on December 03, 2009, 03:16:04 PM
I'm getting ready to use the 85806 Marine dizzy with the 6M-2 box & Blaster SS coil. Should I be expecting problems?
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: electrowoman on December 05, 2009, 07:32:08 AM
Any time you start a piece of machinery you can expect problems  ;D

I sure wouldn't worry about it.  There are millions of these things running everyday.  Till
they break.   People allways swear by a particular brand till it breaks for them.  Then they
swear at it....

Where I draw the line is China junk.

Go for it

Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 05, 2009, 11:00:11 PM
msd is mae in mexico now pal probably worse then china especially when it comes to electronics
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: beerjet on December 06, 2009, 02:19:18 AM
Quote from: Nordie on December 05, 2009, 11:00:11 PM
msd is mae in mexico now pal probably worse then china especially when it comes to electronics
Easy killer .....
You ever seen a chinese guy do tile work  :sly:

-beerjet-
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 06, 2009, 08:04:09 AM
no....ever see a tijuana wire job? what is it with messicans and household circuit breakers in their vehicles?
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: beerjet on December 06, 2009, 09:43:30 AM
Quote from: Nordie on December 06, 2009, 08:04:09 AM
no....ever see a tijuana wire job? what is it with messicans and household circuit breakers in their vehicles?
I'm completly lost  ;D

-beerjet-
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: OC2Vegas on December 06, 2009, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: Nordie on December 06, 2009, 08:04:09 AM
no....ever see a tijuana wire job? what is it with messicans and household circuit breakers in their vehicles?

They are so use to standing outside Home Depot its just easy to get their automotive parts there too!  ;)
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 06, 2009, 06:00:02 PM
No I'm serious when my buddy had his tow yard out here once he put a lean on an unclaimed vehicle I was aloud to mess with the vehicles and see what "interesting" stuff was in them...idk how many cars I have seen with a household circuit breaker or gfi in them...pretty crazy, and them circuit breaker cars always seemed to have a body kit or ricky martin type cd's in them...I guess I'm stereotyping, but most stereotypes are true...
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: GT Jets on December 06, 2009, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: 79charger on August 13, 2009, 01:00:56 PM
I have a Msd coil and a mallory dist, with a pertronix igniter , would there be any benefit for a 6al? Thanks

As much as I wanted to avoid this thread, I have to give up my .02c..

The main and maybe only benefit for a box over your current set up is dwell (the amount of time in degrees that "spark" actually takes place). There are some advantages to MSD control boxes that many are not fully aware of.

MSD = Multiple Spark Discharge....with a Pertronix (love em BTW) you get one spark per TDC on the power stroke and the dwell allows the coil to recharge. that's it.   With the digital 6, you have several sparks per hit, giving a spark more resembling a flame. This increases torque potential and if the math is done will improve the total HP. It also greatly improves cold starting and advance curve characteristics.

On a cruiser type deal (family boat) I like the MSD for it's simplicity (nothing to really maintain).

On a full race deal, IMHO it is one of the best out there, if it don't start, you can't win....sometimes starting a warm high compression race deal is difficult. MSD helps.

I am in no way going to say their quality is the best, but i do have an MSD 6AL that is 7 years old and works perfectly, it's been in three different boats.

The installation almost guarantee's their survival, it should be installed in a well ventilated vibration free area and be kept dry, I always install them heat sync. up, and ground the hell out of it, static discharge will kill them instantly.

Also a good supply voltage will make them last and be more reliable, I use a relay to feed them almost straight from the battery. They need 14.5 Volts to work properly, running one with a low/weak charging system will kill them too....(causes too much heat). If the voltage goes down the amperage goes up...amps = heat...A long wiring harness of too small of gauge wire is bad too...too much voltage drop.

Your setup is probably working pretty well, you may or may not feel or realize any difference, but the spark will be hotter and more precise.

I dig em and always have, they don't die without good cause IMHO. :-\

GT
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 06, 2009, 09:29:07 PM
What do you suggest for a full race setup then? Mag?

What's your thoughts on mallory's sprint mag vs super mag?

I have a sprint mag with 24 deg adv....it needs to be gone through

I have the opportunity to also pick up a super mag setup for dirt cheap.

My ignition has been my sole point of failure everytime now. I just want something that will work. I'm sick of the headaches. I just want my shit to run. I know it will run like a raped ape...I just need an ignition to keep it running.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: GT Jets on December 06, 2009, 09:57:47 PM
Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 06, 2009, 09:29:07 PM
What do you suggest for a full race setup then? Mag?

What's your thoughts on mallory's sprint mag vs super mag?

I have a sprint mag with 24 deg adv....it needs to be gone through

I have the opportunity to also pick up a super mag setup for dirt cheap.

My ignition has been my sole point of failure everytime now. I just want something that will work. I'm sick of the headaches. I just want my shit to run. I know it will run like a raped ape...I just need an ignition to keep it running.

Honestly, I have never been a huge fan of mag's unless your talking full on drag racing, I am not convinced they handle heat very well, and they hate water...not to mention can be hard starters if you don't have the motor spinning before you hit the ignition. (too revolution dependant for me) Major PITA on a whitewater dealio.

Being from the whitewater deal, my stuff was always fully drenched in water and taking a crap....I once used a GM HEI with OK results, but module failures were their Achilles heel.

If you use an MSD 6AL or the tougher MSD 6T (more vibration resistant) and a billet distributor, set up right and waterproofed (use a dizzy diaper and dielectric silicone on everything), the motor will not stop running until you turn it off or the carb gets a good flushing with water...(got ways around that too.)

I will go out on a limb and say your ignition woes are caused by vibration and or water, too things common to a whitewater boat...BTW I do not like the Marine version because it is unrepairable and a wee bit more dough.

Mount the box on a vibration isolator and run a separate ground from the distributor body to the box, then also to the engine block, use the shortest possible coil wire, and run an ignition relay. As close to bulletproof as you can get.

I did have a series of MSD 6AL boxes take a poo right from the box, but MSD stood behind them stating they had a supplier issue..Never had a problem since.

One thing you have to realize is the power wires going to the coil primaries is over 500 volts of capacitive energy, it don't take long for things to heat up if there is too much resistance (read;wet)...The power going to the coil of a standard ignition system is around 8 VDC...Big difference.

This type of ignition system has been around for a long time, the capacitive aspect has been used by Ford for over 20 years (called Dura Spark) they had a huge problem with module failures when they went to the plastic inner fenders, the cure was to ground the box to the firewall...

If you want, I can put together a schematic of what I think you need, with part numbers and all. Lemmeknow... ;)

GT
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: GT Jets on December 06, 2009, 10:31:37 PM
I am not trying to say you're doing something wrong...But take a look at something I found interesting...

I see MSD everywhere, but not one box....They all have them. :sly:

I have a habit of walking around the race boat shows and "snooping", you may see an idea you never thought of before...

[attachimg=#]

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[attachimg=#]

Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: GT Jets on December 06, 2009, 10:34:55 PM
Some more...

[attachimg=#]

[attachimg=#]
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 07, 2009, 03:03:44 PM
your probably right gt about the hooking up your box and vibration and all that and it will work awesome  :thumbup: for some reason i am holding a grudge...on the other had terry hdrider his boat has been running a mag for many years, and he drives his boat all the time with great results so the mag deal i personally like...some will argue about robbing horsepower, and all of that, but the idea of a mag sounds so simple, and efficient...you always have spark i guess i just like the simplicity of them...i know many p many many people run msd, but its not a question if, but when is it going to take a crap there is no tell tale sign of them going out they just go out, and when they do the motor will run, but not to its full potential, and just enough to make you more confused...
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 07, 2009, 03:58:36 PM
The only experience I have seen with the box is a buddy of mine with an eliminator. We could not get that damn thing dialed in. Would run good then run like shit. He decided to take the carb to C&J Eng. and when he told them everything about his motor and ignition system, they told him to throw the pos box away. Problem solved and the boat runs awesome. Just my .02
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: IRRebel on December 07, 2009, 04:29:57 PM
Love the Box! Still running the Mallory units on two of them. Gonna experiment with mags (vertex) on the next inception, which I though was gonna be the Loogie, but saving that motor for another project I can't talk about just now.

I need to be stopped, lol.

Ray
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on December 07, 2009, 05:56:06 PM
Geez...   Getting rid of  Crazy  888's  ign. problems ...That big a deal ..Fck.   :sly:
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: IRRebel on December 08, 2009, 03:16:23 AM
Quote from: enginedoctor on December 07, 2009, 05:56:06 PM
Geez...   Getting rid of  Crazy  888's  ign. problems ...That big a deal ..Fck.   :sly:

LOL, true huh? Funny something that should be so simple causing all those problems for Brad and the guys. :mad:

I think Glenn mighta hit on something though. Those boxes, and usually their coils, cannot be engine mounted! the vibration will kill them.
I suppose you could get fancy and use rubber grommets under it when mounting it there, but vibration is still gonna be an issue, IMO. Those things are run on drag and street cars relentlessly with greater reliability than what I'm hearing here. Why is that? They're mounted on the firewall or fender. (Nascar boys mount theirs on what would be the passenger side dashboard inside the car). Using grommets under them where the screws go through to mount them is never a bad idea either! Use nylock nuts and loctite though.

Maybe that's the problem? I still think a mag for your application is probably best though Brad. Kinda hard to miss with that, and you're not out daycruising with it so heat buildup should not be an issue.

Ray
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 08, 2009, 09:29:18 AM
Quote from: IRRebel on December 08, 2009, 03:16:23 AM
I still think a mag for your application is probably best though Brad. Kinda hard to miss with that.

There's the answer right there.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 08, 2009, 09:31:25 AM
so what about the debate between sprint mag vs super mag?
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 08, 2009, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 08, 2009, 09:31:25 AM
so what about the debate between sprint mag vs super mag?

In my opinion, and the opinions of several hot rodders & racers I know, Mallory mags are undependable, and notorious for taking a shit at the worst time, that being said, here's what I do know:
The Sprint Mag is designed for longer duration racing whereas the Super Mag is designed for shorter duration racing, (think circle races VS drag races) i
f you want a good, long lasting, dependable mag, go with a Vertex, or a Joe Hunt. Regardless of what you use, you need to call Don Zig and have your shit gone through before you run it, it'll be the best $250 you ever spend.
http://www.donzig.com/mallory.html (http://www.donzig.com/mallory.html)


Magneto Based Rev Limiters
http://etcrevlimiters.com/ (http://etcrevlimiters.com/)
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 08, 2009, 09:44:07 AM
im not arguing with you about havin my shit gone through. i just want to make sure i have the right mag for my application before i start throwing money into it having it rebuilt.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 08, 2009, 09:51:39 AM
If you read the info on Sprint Mags and the tech info that is on Zig's site, you'll see that you have the mag you need, the Sprint Mag is your friend, we had no idea what we were doing when setting the timing, I'm reading his info as we speak, I know this, if you send it to Don, and you tell him what you're doing, how you're running etc, he'll give you all the knowledge you could ask for, he doesn't like his shit to fail people. Send that farkin thing already.  O0
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: beerjet on December 08, 2009, 01:01:29 PM
Sprint mag!

The others produce tons of heat and are more ideal for drag racing.
Or so it was explained to me that way  :-\

-beerjet-
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: IRRebel on December 08, 2009, 05:01:27 PM
I don't know the diff between the spring mag and the super mag, but I know the Vertex's I have come in both internal and external "coils", and that may be the difference. Mine are both internal and I'm gonna run 'em that way and see what happens in the spring.

I think the external type is what you really want, should run cooler (They do run hot!). I think that's what Terry is running, but don't remember whether it's the Sprint or Super. Personally, I would beleive the SprintMag would be the one you'd want. That would likely be designed for more than 1/4 mile passes, if I were buying Mallory on it.

Also, dunno if you can even find a Vertex for Ford "385" engines, or if they ever made them. Would be worth looking into, they're pretty much bullet proof!

Ray
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 08, 2009, 06:43:47 PM
Brad out of curiosity, have you thought of taking your boat to C & J Eng.  ??? ???  Those guys know their shit, anything I have taken to them has been drop in and haul ass, no fruckin around :thumbup:  I think Ralph has even dealt with them if I am not mistaken. Hell when I finished my engine I took a brand new dizzy in the box and a 650 DP holley, they dialed in the dizzy and converted the 650 to a 780. I dropped both in with NO adjustments and broke the motor in. To this day I have not touched either and my boat is running great. Just my .02 Brad not trying to be nosey or anything
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Ralph Brunt on December 08, 2009, 07:45:30 PM
ive stayed out of this until NOW, its all a matter of what system you want to run..............................
i ran both and had good luck with both.................................. hell even sunk the boat and the 6al box was under water and ran great the next day..................

so what do you want to spend YOUR  money on either way your spending

oh yeah my mag is a super mag 2 and its locked out with the rev limiter from here
ttp://etcrevlimiters.com/

i know you are tired of chasing your tail, so whip out your wallet and be done with it........

i did have my box mounted on the head like you do and moved it to the bulk head with the rubber delio's for viberation.'

ok im off my soap box now :-[ continue on
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: HDriderTH on December 08, 2009, 08:06:37 PM

I think the external type is what you really want, should run cooler (They do run hot!). I think that's what Terry is running, but don't remember whether it's the Sprint or Super. Personally, I would beleive the SprintMag would be the one you'd want. That would likely be designed for more than 1/4 mile passes, if I were buying Mallory on it.

Ray
[/quote]



I'm running the MSD Promag. It has a rev limiter and external "tranformer", but it's two grand. I was running a Mallorry Sprint Mag which I believe was in the boat since '82.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: IRRebel on December 08, 2009, 08:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Brunt on December 08, 2009, 07:45:30 PM
ive stayed out of this until NOW, its all a matter of what system you want to run..............................
i ran both and had good luck with both.................................. hell even sunk the boat and the 6al box was under water and ran great the next day..................

so what do you want to spend YOUR  money on either way your spending

oh yeah my mag is a super mag 2 and its locked out with the rev limiter from here
ttp://etcrevlimiters.com/

i know you are tired of chasing your tail, so whip out your wallet and be done with it........

i did have my box mounted on the head like you do and moved it to the bulk head with the rubber delio's for viberation.'

ok im off my soap box now :-[ continue on


No Soap Box required Ralph! I think you just reiterated what I've said since this thread began, lol!  ;D

And from a more reliable source!

I guess my point is, think the thought (or project) through. If theres a problem, I was taught by an old guy I worked for in High School (Way back when) part time repairing typewriters, copiers, and (Something foreign to those of you under 40) Adding machines, What caused the problem and always continue asking why until you solve it. Worn part?, part failure?, lack of maintenenace?, Abuse?, Misaplication?, or Design Flaw?

Beleive me, the last one was RARELY the problem.

Ray
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 08, 2009, 08:19:25 PM
gotta remember 5 miles at a time right? i know glenn was saying something about marathon and whitewater them boys go a long ways...when b-rads motor doesnt really go that far....i guess im just getting my 02 on what was already said as far as mag heat goes and all of that mumbo jumbo...if i wanna make all the horsies i can for 5 miles or a 1/4 i would vote for a mag hands down...
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on December 08, 2009, 09:28:25 PM
Drama.....Fix the fkn thing...once and for all :banghead:

bsbsbs :banghead
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 09, 2009, 07:36:27 AM
everyones got their favorite parts for doing things they want to do it. theres no 100% right or wrong way to do this. Everyone has different applications that work better with certain parts rather then others. MSD has failed me over and over again. I know its worked great for others, but it just isnt cutting it for me.

i simply asked for opinions for what i had vs what i can get. I just want to make sure I have what i need for my application.

At this point, i want to thank everyone for the input of knowledge, experiences and opinions. I have a plan that I am going to move forward with.

I am going to stay with the sprint mag and it is going to don zig via Skip. Skip is going to take it down to him and go through it with him. Skip has already been in contact with Don and he had some great advice for us and told us what we were doing wrong. Don has been rebuilding many mags for many boat racers and I have heard nothing but good things about his work amongst the community.

There are several things I am going to look into changing like removing the tach drive, locking it out vs having advance, etc. Also, I wont ever be timing it with a light again. I will be getting a buzz box to time it right.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: HDriderTH on December 09, 2009, 08:23:08 AM
Now yer talkin Son. What other things did Don say? The point of my last post was the Sprint Mag had been in the boat running for 25 years. The MSD has a new "endurance" box to run longer durations and the rev limiter but at a cost of two grand most people wont be running them. The Sprints are relativly dirt cheap and run for ever.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 09, 2009, 09:43:58 AM
Quote from: HDriderTH on December 09, 2009, 08:23:08 AM
What other things did Don say?

In a nutshell, the Sprint Mag is a good mag for this application, especially since Brad already has it, if we had to do it over again, he'd suggest the Super Mag, it's got bigger magnets in it and therefore generates a better spark, with that being said, the Sprint is going to work out for us.In short, he & I are going to go through the Sprint, he's going to teach me what I need to know and he's going to recharge or replace the magnets, re curve it and lock in at whatever timing we tell him to.

Between the engine hitting it's full potential and the upcoming pump work, we should see mid 90MPH to low triples with no problems.

Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: cakemoto on December 09, 2009, 11:17:56 AM
quote author=Luckie Stiff link=topic=7963.msg116318#msg116318 date=1260380638]
In a nutshell, the Sprint Mag is a good mag for this application, especially since Brad already has it, if we had to do it over again, he'd suggest the Super Mag, it's got bigger magnets in it and therefore generates a better spark, with that being said, the Sprint is going to work out for us.In short, he & I are going to go through the Sprint, he's going to teach me what I need to know and he's going to recharge or replace the magnets, re curve it and lock in at whatever timing we tell him to.

Between the engine hitting it's full potential and the upcoming pump work, we should see mid 90MPH to low triples with no problems.


[/quote]

I thought he did run@94mph? in parker.pump work ???
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on December 09, 2009, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Brunt on December 08, 2009, 07:45:30 PM
ive stayed out of this until NOW, its all a matter of what system you want to run..............................
i ran both and had good luck with both.................................. hell even sunk the boat and the 6al box was under water and ran great the next day..................

so what do you want to spend YOUR  money on either way your spending

oh yeah my mag is a super mag 2 and its locked out with the rev limiter from here
ttp://etcrevlimiters.com/

i know you are tired of chasing your tail, so whip out your wallet and be done with it........
 Yo Ralph.....bout time you stepped up   :thumbup:
i did have my box mounted on the head like you do and moved it to the bulk head with the rubber delio's for viberation.'

ok im off my soap box now :-[ continue on

Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: enginedoctor on December 09, 2009, 11:57:08 AM
Quote from: Luckie Stiff on December 09, 2009, 09:43:58 AM
In a nutshell, the Sprint Mag is a good mag for this application, especially since Brad already has it, if we had to do it over again, he'd suggest the Super Mag, it's got bigger magnets in it and therefore generates a better spark, with that being said, the Sprint is going to work out for us.In short, he & I are going to go through the Sprint, he's going to teach me what I need to know and he's going to recharge or replace the magnets, re curve it and lock in at whatever timing we tell him to.

Between the engine hitting it's full potential and the upcoming pump work, we should see mid 90MPH to low triples with no problems.    Good...sounds like there is a plan now


Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 09, 2009, 12:09:35 PM
Quote from: cakemoto on December 09, 2009, 11:17:56 AM
I thought he did run@94mph? in parker.pump work ???

yes, i did, but im running an aluminum impeller...not safe with the HP range im in now. Also, the bowl is cracked...its days are numbered.
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: crewchief22 on December 09, 2009, 12:34:54 PM
Electromotive makes a very cool distributorless ignition system that works bitchen  :thumbup:

I know several people that were running them in the stock car series I was involved in.

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/xdi.html

They have a video of a blown injected BBC jet boat with there system installed. (OK the video kind of sucks)  ;D

Looks like they have a new web site also  www.distributorless.com
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 09, 2009, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: crewchief22 on December 09, 2009, 12:34:54 PM
Electromotive makes a very cool distributorless ignition system that works bitchen  :thumbup:

I know several people that were running them in the stock car series I was involved in.

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/xdi.html

They have a video of a blown injected BBC jet boat with there system installed.

Looks like they have a new web site also  www.distributorless.com

my buddy runs this in his sand car dealio and really likes it...hell i love the idea of a crank trigger but i am too dumb to figure it out
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: SLCKREG on December 09, 2009, 06:03:37 PM
I've always been kinda interested in the whole mag deal. Isn't running a tach an issue? Are they hard on spark plugs? Don't you need an extra bad ass starter to spin the motor faster to light one off? Don't some mags come with a coil just for starting? O.k I'll shut up now O0
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: Nordie on December 09, 2009, 06:12:16 PM
all good questions really...from my undesrtanding on the plugs you just shorten the gap, and your good to go...you need to run solid core plug wires...lighting one off it is recommended to get the motor spinning then hit the ignition and it should light right off...tach....hmmm good question i know that some of the mags have a tach drive dealio its a cable that spins the tach like an old school speedo cable....im not sure if they have electronic ones or not
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: GT Jets on December 09, 2009, 06:38:48 PM
I should clarify why I don't really like magnitos, the last three motors we had were all Belt driven camshafts (Jesel) and they do not recommend Mag inginition beacause of the torque on the cam...(shortens belt life by 40%)

And the slow crank deal...Sounds like you have a good plan Brad.  :thumbup:

Curious to see how it works out...

GT
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: maddogg20 on December 09, 2009, 06:43:36 PM
My engine seems to start with a signifigant less crank revolutions since I got the box, plus with an MSD 6al you can put a rev limiting pill in it so it your driveshaft were to fail or if you (accidently) :-) caught some air the engine wont over rev.   My dizzy and box stay pretty dry even tho the dizzy is at the rear of the engine...

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft280%2Fandyjman16%2FIMG_0169.jpg&hash=c846afd66506570cbd9021a134f9460894b5e72e)
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: BOOST on December 09, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
  Looks good Bro  ;D
Title: Re: What are the benefits of a Msd igniton
Post by: IRRebel on December 09, 2009, 10:30:41 PM
Lookin REAL good! You've come a long way on that thing.

Ray
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