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Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Handyman on May 29, 2015, 11:52:29 PM

Title: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 29, 2015, 11:52:29 PM: After getting my starter issue figured out the engine would not idle at all... Checked plugs and found plugs for cylinders 6 & 8 missing the center electrode.. These were AC delco plugs gapped at .035. Engine temps was around 150... All other plugs were fine...I've never had this happen before so I'm wondering what would have caused this...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: philofab on May 30, 2015, 07:43:45 AM: Detonation causes that.

So that means those cylinders were lean for some reason.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 10:57:13 AM: Would detonation be caused by improper timing? Too advanced or too retarded

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: jimpen on May 30, 2015, 11:08:44 AM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 10:57:13 AM
Would detonation be caused by improper timing? Too advanced or too retarded

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one of the reasons

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: philofab on May 30, 2015, 11:25:33 AM: Timing, vacuum leaks, carb issues, oil blowby, low octane fuel, and carbon build up can all cause this.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 30, 2015, 11:49:33 AM: I would do a compression check. That core went somewhere.

What do the other plugs look like?
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 12:45:15 PM: All the other plugs looked fine..looked like the 2 posted in the pics color wise.. Went and got NGK plugs. Will check timing today.. Where should the timing be?

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 30, 2015, 12:54:49 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 12:45:15 PM
All the other plugs looked fine..looked like the 2 posted in the pics color wise.. Went and got NGK plugs. Will check timing today.. Where should the timing be?

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A good starting point is about 35° btdc at above 2,500 rpm. But it depends on what you have for advance built in to the distributor.

What exhaust system do you have? Reversion could do this as well, those cylinders are buddies. Might be something bigger going on.

Compression check should be first on the list. Make certain the throttle blades are wide open when you do the test. Many forget this step.

Good luck.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 12:59:47 PM: I have no clue how Much advance I have built into the distributor... The previous owner couldn't tell me much about the motor... But I think he knew more than he was wanting to tell me... If I can get this motor to run for the summer I will rebuild it over the winter. I have a couple spark plugs threads on the verge of being stripped so I'm cautious of how many times I take out and replace the plugs

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: crazyjim on May 30, 2015, 03:06:28 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 12:59:47 PM
I have no clue how Much advance I have built into the distributor... The previous owner couldn't tell me much about the motor... But I think he knew more than he was wanting to tell me... If I can get this motor to run for the summer I will rebuild it over the winter. I have a couple spark plugs threads on the verge of being stripped so I'm cautious of how many times I take out and replace the plugs

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Super easy to find out your timing curve. Put the timing light to the motor at idle, once you have that number all you do is bring your RPM's up and watch it as the timing advances. When it stops, you subtract the idle timing from that number and you've got your timing curve.

For example, at idle, my motor will show 15* timing, at around 3000rpm my timing stops advancing at around 36*. I have 21* of timing advance. Once you find that number, you can time the motor at idle by just adding the 21* to whatever your idle timing is. Example, if you have 20* of timing advance, and you're shooting for 35* total timing, you'll set your idle timing at 15*.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 04:57:51 PM: I'm calling it quits on this damn boat.. I can't get it to idle for the life of me... The carb keeps filling up with gas and dies out. I can't time it due to it not idling, and when spark plugs start popping out of their holes... When I put the new plugs in I thought I felt one strip but it snugged down... When the plug popped out I went back and found all but #2 plug were all stripped.... Can't even do a compression check.

I thought the seller was hiding something when I asked about the motor.. When I first asked about the boat he instantly said that he knew nothing about it. He got it on a trade... He said he started it a few times etc... I think the fact that the interior was brand new and the hull was in over all great condition blinded me on the motor... I've been working on it the past few days and have found a bunch of jury rigged crap...I dropped everything I had saved on the purchase of the boat and have nothing left to get the heads repaired and the motor tuned/ rebuilt. So it will be a great lawn ornament for the rest of the summer....

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 05:05:24 PM: Carb filling with gas? U mean the boosters are leaking fuel at idle?. Thats a float level or poop holding the needle n seat open issue..

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 05:21:09 PM: Quote from: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 05:05:24 PM
Carb filling with gas? U mean the boosters are leaking fuel at idle?. Thats a float level or poop holding the needle n seat open issue..

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Once it starts and the idle starts to come down the front bowls on the carb starts to fill up with gas and then does out.. I don't know crap about carbs...but that's least of my worries...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 05:31:45 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 05:21:09 PM
Once it starts and the idle starts to come down the front bowls on the carb starts to fill up with gas and then does out.. I don't know crap about carbs...but that's least of my worries...

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ya ur needle n seat probably has shit in it...but ur right, thats the least of ur worries... sorry brother...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 05:45:22 PM: U probably should pull the heads, have them gone thru, plug threads fixed.. only good advice i can give is dont get frustrated, i know thats hard, but its part of bein a boat owner...something is allways gonna pop and smack u in face..frustration fixes nothing.... good luck..

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 06:01:17 PM: None of that sounds very serious, maybe two weekends worth of work (cruising). Don't get discouraged!

There are spark plug thread repair kits that you can use with the heads still installed. Put some grease on the tap to retain the metal chips so they don't fall down inside the engine.

Even if you have to pull the heads, assuming you don't have problems with the valves, you would only be into it for a set of gaskets.

Could you pull a valve cover and post up the casting numbers? If they are nothing special, even worse case scenario, shouldn't be expensive to fix.

I am assuming you have a Holley carb from your description. They are easy enough to rebuild (if necessary). Pick up the appropriate Holley Trick Kit and with just some basic hand tools, I am sure you can get it dialed.

I would say bring it by my shop and I would help you wrench on it, but I am about 200 miles south of you.

Time to man up and earn your namesake. Keep us in the loop and rough times will quickly be a thing of the past.

Cheers,

Joe
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 06:11:54 PM: I did not know there was a spark plug thread repair kit.. Yes it's a Holley carb but I have no idea what size it is... I had to take a break from working on it.. I would pull the heads but I have no idea what the torque sequence is and I know there is a special sequence..

I will get this bastard figured out...just extremely frustrated right now..

Is there a stamping on the carb that say is what size it is?

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 06:23:27 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 06:11:54 PM
I will get this bastard figured out...just extremely frustrated right now..
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 06:26:48 PM: List# on the choke horn.. tell us what it is, we can get u alil info..

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 06:28:42 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 06:11:54 PM

Is there a stamping on the carb that say is what size it is?

There are numbers on the choke shroud, but I don't know how to interpret them. There are a few carb gurus here that I am sure can tell you exactly what you have right off the top of their heads.

There are a few numbers, if you post them up, somebody will chime in or I will look them up when I get home.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 06:38:26 PM: Here are a couple pics of the carb

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 06:44:32 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 06:11:54 PM
I would pull the heads but I have no idea what the torque sequence is and I know there is a special sequence..

You're going to want to seal the head bolt threads on reassembly to prevent migration of water up the threads and into the oil. We also put a bead of blue Permatex in the fillets under the heads of the head bolts for redundancy.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 08:06:14 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 06:38:26 PM
Here are a couple pics of the carb

Look around on and near the choke shroud for some numbers. It's a dual feed double pumper and worth rebuilding.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 08:27:11 PM: Here is the carb numbers

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 08:34:24 PM: And the head casting numbers

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 09:38:27 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 08:34:24 PM
And the head casting numbers

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Those are 78-90 peanut port truck heads. I even have an extra set right here that I could donate to the cause. Most performance people can't give those away. You should be able to find a fresh set cheap, if need be. I bet you could even find a complete, good running, engine at Pick-a-Part.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 09:42:57 PM: Carbs a 750 double pumper

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 09:48:05 PM: Quote from: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 09:38:27 PM
Those are 78-90 peanut port truck heads. I even have an extra set right here that I could donate to the cause. Most performance people can't give those away. You should be able to find a fresh set cheap, if need be. I bet you could even find a complete, good running, engine at Pick-a-Part.

Right now performance is furthest from my mind... Just want to get this damn thing running so I can go enjoy it in the lake.. I'm frustrated and the wife is already on my ass because it's costing money she doesn't want to spend...im afraid to call my family mechanic and ask how much it would cost to have the threads for the spark plugs to be repaired... If I can get those repaired it would be a great deal off my shoulders and I can concentrate on everything else

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 09:58:14 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 09:48:05 PM
Right now performance is furthest from my mind... Just want to get this damn thing running so I can go enjoy it in the lake.. I'm frustrated and the wife is already on my ass because it's costing money she doesn't want to spend...im afraid to call my family mechanic and ask how much it would cost to have the threads for the spark plugs to be repaired... If I can get those repaired it would be a great deal off my shoulders and I can concentrate on everything else

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if u cant do it yourself. Most good repair shops can... its more of a common problem then ud think.. timesert sells a kit for it..

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 10:04:57 PM: I've re tapped threads many times but nothing that was under pressure like the spark plugs are...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 10:17:17 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 08:27:11 PM
Here is the carb numbers

Here is the carb rebuild kit for a 4150 series carb. https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/rebuild_kits/parts/37-485

I'm sure you can find bowl and metering block gaskets and other small parts at Pep Boys. All 4150s use the same gaskets and I'm willing to bet that you can get by without pulling the whole thing apart and use just a float bowl/metering block gasket set https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/gaskets/parts/108-200 and some parts cleaner.

You can download the instructions here http://documents.holley.com/199r8378rev.pdf
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 10:20:39 PM: Thanks flusher... I will look into this... I tried rebuilding an edelbrock carb but failed... But that was 10 years ago.. I'll try again now I have more experience on carbs... Granted the carbs were off my banshee

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 10:32:03 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 30, 2015, 10:04:57 PM
I've re tapped threads many times but nothing that was under pressure like the spark plugs are...

Don't be scared! No balls, No glory.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 30, 2015, 10:39:04 PM: Quote from: Flusher on May 30, 2015, 10:32:03 PM
Don't be scared! No balls, No glory.
im pretty sure you told me the same thing about my head stud!!! Lol worked out bitchin!! O0

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 03:05:11 AM: I decided I'm going to pull the carb and clean shit out of it before I buy a rebuild kit then Im going to pull the heads and attempt to fix the spark plug threads and look everything over to make sure the lean condition in cylinders 6&8 didn't do any damage.. Then I will set the timing and go from there..

Anyone got any simplified tips, methods, on setting the rocker arm lash and what not? I've read some info on how to do it but I get confused on the write up because of how it's being described... I saw my step dad do it years ago but no sure of the exact method... And he isn't much help now a days...

Not the way i wanted to go but at least I will know what I'm dealing with...and fix all the stupid crap the previous owner did

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: aquaholic72 on May 31, 2015, 03:24:50 AM: Your kinda asking alot at once..carb needs work, heads need a fix, if its just plug threads ur good.,when u pull the heads and regasket everything. What cams in ur boat? Hydraulic? Solid? Roller? Cant tell u a basline without knowing what ur workin with brother..need more info...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 01:08:00 PM: Are there stampings on the cam to tell its specs?

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 02:08:47 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 01:08:00 PM
Are there stampings on the cam to tell its specs?

This Erson has stamping on the back. I haven't been able to find any specs on this one because of the fragmented documentation with Erson being sold so many times. Doesn't matter because I will just use this as a core to be reground into something useful. Or trash can ballast.

My Crane, Lunati, and CompCams are either stamped or engraved on the front. Pulling the cam gear might reveal a number.

I would bet that you have on OE hydraulic flat tappet. If nothing is wrong with it, run it. You can tell by grabbing a rocker of a valve that is closed, if you can push it back, compressing the hydraulic plunger, you have a hydraulic.

I seriously doubt you have a solid or any type of roller, but things will clear up as you dive into this project.

Keep the questions and pictures coming and you will be finished in no time.

Joe
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 02:09:58 PM: Oops, forgot the picture
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 02:15:06 PM: You guys should tell him not to yank the heads! Just buy the tread kit to fix the plug holes. So that's done he can move on to the carb. Baby steps!!! Don't jump in with both feet, unless you know the water temp!!!

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 02:30:32 PM: I suspect the cam is nothing special and a OE style cam from what I'm seeing with this motor...

I have everything to repair the spark if threads... I'm now trying to decide if I should pull the heads and re tap the threads with some grease on the tap to catch the metal or just pull them.... That would constitute more money for head gaskets which would also constitute my wife crawling even further up my a$$... Decisions decisions....

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 02:39:48 PM: Don't pull them just take your time. Go on YouTube to see how to do it!!! I'm sure there is a video of it. There is no sense in pulling them to fix just The threads.

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 03:01:12 PM: Quote from: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 02:39:48 PM
Don't pull them just take your time. Go on YouTube to see how to do it!!! I'm sure there is a video of it. There is no sense in pulling them to fix just The threads.

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I said exactly that in post 16. Needed reemphasizing anyway. Good call to bring us all back to the OP's original intent of getting out on the water ASAP and for as cheap as possible.

Sometimes I need to be brought back into reality or I might have a blower installed on it and a new girlfriend in the passenger seat. Maybe not the best for the OP, I was just trying to emphasize that it isn't that big of a deal and won't cost too much.

Thanks,

Joe
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 03:34:52 PM: The only reason I was contemplating pulling the heads were to inspect cylinders 6&8 but I will re tap the threads with the heads on and then work on the carb and go from there.. If I have to pull the heads later I will but not if I don't have to

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 03:41:05 PM: Yah! Let's get you on the water. See what you have,for a motor. And the big one not have the wife up your ass. Lol we've all been there!!!

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Title: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 04:31:11 PM: My 2 buddies have been at the lake the past 2 weekends while I've been wrenching on mine so I'm eager to get out there..

My plan(as of now) is to run the motor for the summer and then when winter comes pull the motor and freshen everything up and do. Some changes that I already want to do... But that can all change if the motor decides to let go and/or a money tree sprouts out of the ground with enough money to buy a Bitchin motor ready to rock and roll

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 05:12:50 PM: Pick up a good core and start that while you are still enjoying your boat with its current engine.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 05:19:47 PM: Quote from: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 03:41:05 PM
Yah! Let's get you on the water. See what you have,for a motor. And the big one not have the wife up your ass. Lol we've all been there!!!

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Tony, he's only in Visalia. Road trip?
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 05:24:40 PM: Sure !!! if you go with me!!!
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 05:45:29 PM: Quote from: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 05:24:40 PM
Sure !!! if you go with me!!!

When do we leave?

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 05:48:08 PM: You tell me! I'm always up for road trips. You'll have to ask my wife tho!!!

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 05:49:15 PM: Quote from: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 05:48:08 PM
You tell me! I'm always up for road trips. You'll have to ask my wife tho!!!

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That's cool, you'll have to ask mine.

Lmao.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 05:49:53 PM: Deal! Lol

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 06:33:30 PM: You guys crack me up.... Got the threads retapped and I didn't have to use the thread replacement inserts... Ran the tap through them with some very sticky grease to catch the metal filings and put the plugs into see if they snugged down to which they did quite nicely. All I have to do is put the water logs back on and attack the carb... I have a couple cans of carb cleaner and I will try to use them and clean out any port, hole, oriface that fuel or air travel through and put it back on and see what happens... I at least know that the sparks plugs aren't (or shouldn't be) part of the equation now as to why if it won't run...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 06:57:26 PM: Did a compression test check

1-135
3-140
5-135
7-135
2-135
4-155
6-135
8-115

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 06:58:49 PM: Good!!! Now on the carb get yourself a couple of those white terry towels and knock out the carb!!! Use a nice big flat surface to do the carb!!!

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 06:58:50 PM: Good!!! Now on the carb get yourself a couple of those white terry towels and knock out the carb!!! Use a nice big flat surface to do the carb!!!

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 07:01:52 PM: Not bad!! That should last you the entire summer, with those numbers

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 07:43:50 PM: Quote from: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 06:58:50 PM
Good!!! Now on the carb get yourself a couple of those white terry towels and knock out the carb!!! Use a nice big flat surface to do the carb!!!

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I have a whole bag of the terry cloth rags from Costco ... I already have a spot set up in my garage to work in the carb...

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 07:54:26 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 07:43:50 PM
I have a whole bag of the terry cloth rags from Costco ... I already have a spot set up in my garage to work in the carb...

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Just because your luck seems to suck... A couple pieces of duct tape over the carb. holes on the manifold while the carburetor is off... don't want a Doe Doe bird dropping a walnut in there or somethin'... ;)

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 07:55:54 PM: Oh done that!!! It sucks!!! Lol

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 07:58:30 PM: Quote from: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 07:54:26 PM

Just because your luck seems to suck... A couple pieces of duct tape over the carb. holes on the manifold while the carburetor is off... don't want a Doe Doe bird dropping a walnut in there or somethin'... ;)

GT

Oh I will most definitely cover the holes on the Intake manifold... I saw my step dad drop something In there and I had to take the manifold off to get it out

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 08:58:34 PM: By golly gee i think I may have found my carb problem

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 09:02:19 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 08:58:34 PM
By golly gee i think I may have found my carb problem

Break out?
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 09:05:19 PM: Ok you gonna tell us???

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 09:08:13 PM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafaW1uLE-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafaW1uLE-4)
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on May 31, 2015, 09:09:27 PM: Great movie!!!! Have not seen that in years!!!!

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 09:41:04 PM: Quote from: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 09:08:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafaW1uLE-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafaW1uLE-4)

LMFAO
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:13:29 PM: Ok so I pulled the fuel bowls off and instantly found one of the orange things that assist the float in the rear bowl gone... Front bowl had it but the rear did not. The gaskets looked like they had been replaced recently... So I was careful not to damage them... Took Carmen cleaner and sprayed every hole I could see. I did some small particles get sprayed out... Then I took the screw out of the top of the rear fuel bowl sprayed it out and saw no particles of any kind but I did spray everything out before I put it all back together... The I did the same with the front fuel bowl and the needle under that screw in the needle there was a small piece of rubber that was keeping it from closing fully... At it was the front bowls in the carb where the butterfly is that was filling up with fuel...

I do have one question... The metal piece that my finger is on holds the butterfly open(I believe it's the choke) is the butterfly supposed to be one all the time? If not how is it activated? I have a Mr Gasket air scoop that has butterfly's that open when I hit the throttle...I assume that the choke was stuck open because of the air scoop but please correct me if I'm wrong

Pics
Front fuel bowl
Rear fuel bowl
Front needle I found the rubber
Piece of metal I'm asking about for the butterfly's

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 10:17:20 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:13:29 PM
Ok so I pulled the fuel bowls off and instantly found one of the orange things that assist the float in the rear bowl gone... Front bowl had it but the rear did not. The gaskets looked like they had been replaced recently... So I was careful not to damage them... Took Carmen cleaner and sprayed every hole I could see. I did some small particles get sprayed out... Then I took the screw out of the top of the rear fuel bowl sprayed it out and saw no particles of any kind but I did spray everything out before I put it all back together... The I did the same with the front fuel bowl and the needle under that screw in the needle there was a small piece of rubber that was keeping it from closing fully... At it was the front bowls in the carb where the butterfly is that was filling up with fuel...

I do have one question... The metal piece that my finger is on holds the butterfly open(I believe it's the choke) is the butterfly supposed to be one all the time? If not how is it activated? I have a Mr Gasket air scoop that has butterfly's that open when I hit the throttle...I assume that the choke was stuck open because of the air scoop but please correct me if I'm wrong

Pics
Front fuel bowl
Rear fuel bowl
Front needle I found the rubber
Piece of metal I'm asking about for the butterfly's

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That is called a mechanical choke and the rod should be adjusted so the very top butterfly is 100% open. You don't need a choke on a jet boat, a couple shots with the throttle when you fire it off and you're fine...

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 10:19:20 PM: Also, that orange doohickey has nothing to do with the float. It's the check valve for the accelerator pump.... You can snip it off if you want...

EDIT; But not too short, leave about 1/8".

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 10:29:44 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:13:29 PM
I do have one question... The metal piece that my finger is on holds the butterfly open(I believe it's the choke) is the butterfly supposed to be one all the time? If not how is it activated? I have a Mr Gasket air scoop that has butterfly's that open when I hit the throttle...I assume that the choke was stuck open because of the air scoop but please correct me if I'm wrong

Pics
Front fuel bowl
Rear fuel bowl
Front needle I found the rubber
Piece of metal I'm asking about for the butterfly's

That looks like someone's bassackword attempt at a mechanical choke. It's all bent up and I can't imagine it is very affective. I honestly don't believe a choke is needed because girls don't wear bikinis anywhere it is cold engine to need one. If the girls where you boat are members of the Polar Bear club, I might have the parts for an electric choke from the last carb I took great care in milling the choke shroud off. I can check my inventory of obsolete carburetor parts if you are interested.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 10:33:28 PM: Quote from: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 10:29:44 PM
That looks like someone's bassackword attempt at a mechanical choke. It's all bent up and I can't imagine it is very affective. I honestly don't believe a choke is needed because girls don't wear bikinis anywhere it is cold engine to need one. If the girls where you boat are members of the Polar Bear club, I might have the parts for an electric choke from the last carb I took great care in milling the choke shroud off. I can check my inventory of obsolete carburetor parts if you are interested.

I was going to say just cut a piece of a wire coat hanger and wire it open.... :thumbup:

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:36:15 PM: Quote from: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 10:17:20 PM
That is called a mechanical choke and the rod should be adjusted so the very top butterfly is 100% open. You don't need a choke on a jet boat, a couple shots with the throttle when you fire it off and you're fine...

GT

Outstanding I'll rig it wide one like it was... I'll go out and start it tomorrow. To see if it idles/ runs.. Didn't want to piss off my neighbors at 9pm.

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 10:52:29 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:36:15 PM
I'll go out and start it tomorrow. To see if it idles/ runs.. Didn't want to piss off my neighbors at 9pm.

Proper boating etiquette would require waiting until 2am to test fire. ;-)
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:56:13 PM: ROFL... If i had to fire it up at 2am I would

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on May 31, 2015, 11:04:15 PM: Quote from: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 10:56:13 PM
ROFL... If i had to fire it up at 2am I would

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So several years ago, we had a neighbor that had sand rails... Memorial Day weekend they were going to either Pismo or Glamis I can't remember. They got all ready to go and drove the buggies on the trailer at like 1 AM. My dad was unimpressed... :sly:

So Labor Day weekend we were going to Shasta Lake with the Jet, so my dad was sure to "test fire" the boat the night before at 1AM..... Visualize if you will a set of Bassett headers on a big block Chevy with the side man door open which just happened to be just on the other side of the fence of the master bedroom of the dune buggy neighbors house...

Needless to say, I don't think we ever heard the sand rails run again...LOL

Don't EVER get mad, because even is sooooo much more fun. >:D

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on May 31, 2015, 11:36:05 PM: Now that's some funny $hit

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 11:36:30 PM: Talk about an impressive response time!?

An undocumented worker tried to cut a hole in my roof to break in. Cops don't show!

Multiple shots fired down the street. Cops don't show!

I fired my boat inside my shop at around 11pm. The zoomies blew the insulation off the 16' ceiling so I shut down quick. The cops were here before we stopped laughing.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: jimpen on June 01, 2015, 07:28:54 AM: Quote from: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 11:36:30 PM
Talk about an impressive response time!?

An undocumented worker tried to cut a hole in my roof to break in. Cops don't show!

Multiple shots fired down the street. Cops don't show!

I fired my boat inside my shop at around 11pm. The zoomies blew the insulation off the 16' ceiling so I shut down quick. The cops were here before we stopped laughing.
. The truth.

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Title: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 07:54:45 PM: Who can post a video for me? Took a small video of what my carb is doing.. Or I can text it to one of you guru's

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on June 01, 2015, 08:52:43 PM: Just tell me! We ll start there . What is it doing to you??? Will it start , run rev up idle???

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:30:30 PM: HOLY $HIT IT IDLES... Had to replace the seat and needle for the float... Now i just need to time it... It purrs at 1k Rpms at about 4-6 BTDC but I read you have to take the RPMS up above 2500..and re time it there too... am I wrong

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on June 01, 2015, 09:34:46 PM: No you set it where it works for that motor . Not all motors are the same. If it runs good leave it till you get it in the water . You may have to adj in the water.

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on June 01, 2015, 09:37:06 PM: Good job!
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on June 01, 2015, 09:39:33 PM: Quote from: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:30:30 PM
HOLY $HIT IT IDLES... Had to replace the seat and needle for the float... Now i just need to time it... It purrs at 1k Rpms at about 4-6 BTDC but I read you have to take the RPMS up above 2500..and re time it there too... am I wrong

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SWEEEEEEET

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:42:24 PM: Quote from: mobboss on June 01, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
No you set it where it works for that motor . Not all motors are the same. If it runs good leave it till you get it in the water . You may have to adj in the water.

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True... I read in the Hardin marine manual that their motors are timed around 8 BTDC... I read somewhere to take the RPMS up to 2500 and check timing there... Do I have to do that or....?

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on June 01, 2015, 09:44:12 PM: One more thing...

Don't ever let anyone tell you that the two best days of a boat owner's life is the day you buy it and the day you sell it.

Glad you had a positive outcome.
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: mobboss on June 01, 2015, 09:44:39 PM: It depends, what distributor do you have??? Look if it were mine I'd set it to 8 and see if it likes it.

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:47:38 PM: Quote from: Flusher on May 31, 2015, 10:52:29 PM
Proper boating etiquette would require waiting until 2am to test fire. ;-)

It may not have been 2am but it was 9:15 and my neighbors came running to see what the noise was... Guess they've never heard a straight piped 454 before... They have now

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on June 01, 2015, 09:51:13 PM: Quote from: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:47:38 PM
It may not have been 2am but it was 9:15 and my neighbors came running to see what the noise was... Guess they've never heard a straight piped 454 before... They have now

Making friends and influencing people
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:53:51 PM: Quote from: Flusher on June 01, 2015, 09:44:12 PM
One more thing...

Don't ever let anyone tell you that the two best days of a boat owner's life is the day you buy it and the day you sell it.

Glad you had a positive outcome.

I'm glad i was able to have these issues now because I was able to learn the boat and the motor and get a good look at it. If it hadn't had the issues I would not have known about the spark plug threads, the the spark plugs that came apart etc... I thoroughly enjoy wrenching on motors. I had a wrench in my had every day for the 14 years I was in the navy working on the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet... I'm glad I had you all to helpmeet out and didn't bash me too hard for all the stupid questions

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Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Flusher on June 01, 2015, 09:59:59 PM: Don't ever be afraid to ask.

One thing that I have been stewing over that has me concerned: you said the carb filled up with fuel? Where did the fuel go? Down the intake? You might consider changing the oil.

Cheers,

Joe
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: GT Jets on June 01, 2015, 10:03:50 PM: Quote from: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 09:53:51 PM
I'm glad I had you all to helpmeet out and didn't bash me too hard for all the stupid questions

The only stupid question is one you answer yourself while asking...

Think it through...

You did awesome. Now wait until 2 am and hit the key again :sly: 8)

GT
Title: Re: What would cause this ?
Post by: Handyman on June 01, 2015, 10:08:18 PM: Quote from: Flusher on June 01, 2015, 09:59:59 PM
Don't ever be afraid to ask.

One thing that I have been stewing over that has me concerned: you said the carb filled up with fuel? Where did the fuel go? Down the intake? You might consider changing the oil.

Cheers,

Joe

I wish i could post a video of what it was doing... The fuel going into the choke area but not that much but enough to choke it out..the ready was flowing out and onto the intake manifold where I was able to clean it up with paper towels

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