SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: playgrundy on June 20, 2010, 04:36:45 PM
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I'm running a BBF 460ci. with Hardin logs and Rewarder over the transom pipes with baffles. I have been told by a sheriff who tested my decible level that my boat is too loud so I got a warning ticket & I also got a warning ticket from a DNR officer. I'm tempted to buy some used snails & run my exhaust through the transom. My boat has never had threw transom exhaust. Any help with my issue will be greatly appreciated. I really want to get on the water but I do not want a $300 fine. If someone has some used snails they want to sell I might be interested or if anyone knows of a baffle that will get me in the legal range that would be great. Thanks.
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I got the same problem let me know if you find a good solution.
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Are you running water through the headers? Are you running mufflers in them also?
He tested? Like with a Decibal meter at 50' or did he use his calibrated ear?
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I'm running water through them. I have baffles in them that were purchased from CP Performance they are part #410-284402 HP Silencer. The sheriff tested them with a meter but I looked up the law and it says that the test shall be done 4 feet back from the exhaust at idle, my idle was a bit high that day. He was nearly in my pipes when he took his reading. They tested at 125 decibles, legal here is 89db I believe. The DNR officer never even heard it run, he was going by a complaint that he got of a loud boat.
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I got a ticket at perris 4 my bassets it aint cheap he told me if i had baffles just to put them in and im legal
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When I was told I was too loud, the first words out of my mouth were I have baffles in them. He did not care. He stated that the fine would be $300 and he could ban me from the water until I make my boat legal and have it inspected & tested by a sheriff.
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4ft away is a pretty harsh test. The fact that he actually used a decible meter at all is surprising. Without switching to TT exhaust, I would get your idle right and do a test yourself at the 4ft distance and see where you are really at.
If you still think that your too high and going to have law trouble then you may not have an option but to switch to the TT.
Not a high dollar model like the cops use but would probably get you an idea of where the db are at
http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Digital-Sound-Level-Meter/dp/B001THX3M0 (http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Digital-Sound-Level-Meter/dp/B001THX3M0)
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Minnesota Stationary Idle Test. Taken at least 4 feet above the water and at least 4 feet behind the transom of the boat. 86 dBA... Looks like I will have to go the tt route.
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Also make sure you're running water through the headers when they test it. At idle, typically, there should be no water. If running a driver mounted valve, open it up some for the test ;)
If just the Basset T valve, shouldn't have water at all til around 1500 RPM, but you can open up the gate or ball valve on the outlet to the engine from the pump. If the pumps fresh or good, it'll open that valve all the time usually. Worth a shot.
I don't think you're gonna get to 89 Db with O/T headers at all though. Possibly with some of the Borla style mufflers out there, I dunno.
Ray
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Also make sure you're running water through the headers when they test it. At idle, typically, there should be no water. If running a driver mounted valve, open it up some for the test ;)
If just the Basset T valve, shouldn't have water at all til around 1500 RPM, but you can open up the gate or ball valve on the outlet to the engine from the pump. If the pumps fresh or good, it'll open that valve all the time usually. Worth a shot.
I don't think you're gonna get to 89 Db with O/T headers at all though. Possibly with some of the Borla style mufflers out there, I dunno.
Ray
He's not running headers! He has logs!
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He's not running headers! He has logs!
Sorry, I missed that! :screwy: I need sleep! lol! But I got a motor to pull... :banghead:
Dunno what to tell ya. One of mine has the same setup, and really isn't any quieter than baffled headers. I remember Crewcheif telling me to try and pull the baffles out of the pipes once. Says they're louder than open headers. Could be, dunno.
Sounds like OE equipment, Same law applies here, but noone enforces it. I think I would try and fight it maybe???
Ray
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I wonder what an msd 6AL with a very low rpm chip would sound like. :screwy:
Probably wouldn't work but if it did that would be a nice trick.
This is just a prime example of the gov. out of control. Someone sits behind a
desk and decides what you can and can't hear.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
I think they sound beautiful but the gov. won't let me hear it :mad:
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These work excellent....A little pricey, but IMHO worth every penny...
Our first race boat had a 5" kit and we were running 30 discs on each side with water...Went from well over 100db at 50' to under 82db, they did rob about 50 RPM, but with the sound limit rule, were able to take 1 minute from every leg of racing for being under 85 db, so it was moot.
http://www.supertrapp.com/product_sections/cat.asp?CatID=27
They used to make a marine kit, all I have from the kit is the adapters, let me know if you want a pic of them......I will be home tomorrow.. ;)
GT
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You think something like that would get it low enough being measured at 4'?
These laws are out of control!
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Gt Jets, I was looking at those. I was tempted to give them a try. Were you saying that you might have a pair you wanted to sell? Feel free to send me some pics. playgrundy@yahoo.com Thanks.
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Wait a minute....I just realized something. You mean to tell me the state that prides and promotes itself on being the "Land of a Thousand Lakes" has serious issues with loud, classic, original boats? Theres a double standard! :screwy:
I understand they're as bad in Florida, which I don't get as well since the vast majority of residents wear hearing aids anyhow, but REALLY????
This world is FOCKED UP!
Ray
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That is what really gets me. My boat is original. This is the way it was built. :banghead:
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You think something like that would get it low enough being measured at 4'?
These laws are out of control! You guys are being had :thumbdown:
Measuring the sound at 4' has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Who in their right mind would come up with a regulation like that but an idiot paper pusher.
Anyone within 4' of the back of my boat that would be offended would already be drowned.
You would think it would be measured from at least 50' Notice the Deisel truck listed below, they are on the street every day, right beside a lot more people than will ever be exposed to boat exhaust. It's higher and measured at 30'. :sly:
I wonder why they didn't tell them to muffle it :sly:
That enforcment level and distance is just insane and is nothing less than harassment :banghead:
Some average levels are listed below.
Threshold of hearing
0 dB
Motorcycle (30 feet) Here again, everyday exposure by anyone on the side walks
88 dB
Rustling leaves
20 dB
Foodblender (3 feet) Funny this can make more noise than the human can bare from a boat engine!
90 dB
Quiet whisper (3 feet)
30 dB
Subway (inside) Good lord! How can these people stand it. They'll all be deaf :sly:
94 dB
Quiet home
40 dB
Diesel truck (30 feet) :sly:
100 dB
Quiet street
50 dB
Power mower (3 feet) Shut them down! :screwy:
107 dB
Normal conversation
60 dB
Pneumatic riveter (3 feet)
115 dB
Inside car
70 dB
Chainsaw ( 10 feet)
117 dB
Loud singing (3 feet)
75 dB
Amplified Rock and Roll (6 feet)
120 dB
Automobile (25 feet)
80 dB
Jet plane (100 feet)
130 dB
Typical average decibel levels (dBA) of some common sounds
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electro,
While I am in no way defending our govtards way of doing things, the biggest reason for such low db allowances is that sound travel better on the water than on any other medium. When they originally came out with the law here it was 92db at 50', but it was too difficult to enforce.
Personally, I would like to see a law that states " anyone who does not like boat engine noise is not allowed near a recreational lake"....
Now that being said, there are some boats that are too damn loud, it makes me uncomfortable, especially when there are kids around. Those are the ones that are screwing it up for everyone else IMHO...Sometimes the sense of entitlement of these types pisses me off to no end... :mad:
GT
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I'm running a BBF 460ci. with Hardin logs and Rewarder over the transom pipes with baffles. I have been told by a sheriff who tested my decible level that my boat is too loud so I got a warning ticket & I also got a warning ticket from a DNR officer. I'm tempted to buy some used snails & run my exhaust through the transom. My boat has never had threw transom exhaust. Any help with my issue will be greatly appreciated. I really want to get on the water but I do not want a $300 fine. If someone has some used snails they want to sell I might be interested or if anyone knows of a baffle that will get me in the legal range that would be great. Thanks.
Did he show you the decibel meter after testing or just tell you that it was too loud??
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He never showed me the reading. I thought he would have been proud to show me, but he never did. He siad it was 125db.
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Minnesota's boating noise laws http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/statelaws/Minnesota.html (http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/statelaws/Minnesota.html)
"An effective muffling system in good working order is required for the exhaust of each boat engine. This system must be effectively installed to prevent excessive noise. Loud boat noise not only bothers other operators and users of the waterways, it can also disrupt peace ashore because of sound's ability to travel great distances over water.
Excessive noise can also prevent you from hearing other boats' sound signals and warnings, and approaching law or rescue personnel. Specifically, it is unlawful to modify, equip, sell or operate a motorboat that exceeds the levels indicated below.
Specifically, no boat shall be operated if it exceeds the following noise levels:
•Boats built before January 1, 1982 must not exceed 84 decibels (dBA) during a pass-by test or 86 dBA measured during a stationary idle test.
•Boats built on after January 1, 1982 must not exceed 82 decibels (dBA) during a pass-by test or 84 dBA measured during a stationary idle test.
A Pass-By Test is usually taken at 50’. An equivalent reading may also be taken at other distances. A Stationary Idle Test is taken at least 4’ above the water and at least 4’ behind the transom of the boat."
Make sure you see the actual DB meter reading and make sure he is standing the 4 feet back. Get a copy of MN's staute on this and keep it with you on the boat for next time. That is if you are within the DB. :)
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electro,
While I am in no way defending our govtards way of doing things, the biggest reason for such low db allowances is that sound travel better on the water than on any other medium. When they originally came out with the law here it was 92db at 50', but it was too difficult to enforce.
Personally, I would like to see a law that states " anyone who does not like boat engine noise is not allowed near a recreational lake"....
Now that being said, there are some boats that are too damn loud, it makes me uncomfortable, especially when there are kids around. Those are the ones that are screwing it up for everyone else IMHO...Sometimes the sense of entitlement of these types pisses me off to no end... :mad:
GT
I completly agree with you about noise and water. BUT, there is much more distance (in most cases) between people and machine. I also agree with you about the few that are out of control. It's a shame that in an effort to calm them down it comes to making high performance boats sound quieter than a blender :screwy:
Good luck out there, we haven't gotten to that point in Pa yet. Or should I say not that I'm aware of.
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Boy am I gonna be popular when I put these Zoomies on sumpin...... :screwy:
Ray
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I got stopped at the dock at San Vicente in SoCal once. I had my baffles in but I sunk them as far as I could so not to see them. The ranger... lady... told me I was too loud because I had no baffles and that after I got them I would be allowed back at the lake. She went on and on about how she rides Harleys with open exhaust so she knows what loud is... blah blah blah. I asked for her flashlight after she was done being a stupid bitch and showed her my baffles. I then asked if she would like to test me using the decibel meter. She admitted that they didn't have one and let me on the lake. Oh the best part AND LISTEN CLOSE RAY a blown flattie launched while I was being harrassed with Zoomies and she payed no attention to him. Moral of the story... be prepared to show up the rangers by being legal. You might even be able to save a blown flattie from getting a ticket, lol.