SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Mr Plow on March 21, 2009, 09:50:34 PM

Title: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 21, 2009, 09:50:34 PM
Ok I bought a 14 quart pan and it came with this windage tray.  All the windage trays Ive seen up to this point have louvers in them or screens.  Is this one ok to use, should I get a newer design or do I even need one?  Thanks in advance!

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0593.jpg&hash=941ba121c3e8e62c055bdf2787e8a70497e2d803)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0594.jpg&hash=4a075189e5f91ea2703ff5f6579b3a69fb89828f)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 21, 2009, 10:02:12 PM
In all honesty, I dont see a problem with it...The louvered ones normally go all the way to the edges of the pan, the one you show looks to be quite short of the sides of the pan and should work very well.

I use a Dooley Jet boat pan and have a very modified Moroso windage tray in it and it acually seems to work exellent, I had a crankscraper in it at first and it seemed to be a major overkill for the application.

The one thing you really have to be careful of on a tray in a BBC is dipstick clearance, I have had to modify most of them to get the stick to clear the tray...

GT
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 08:43:35 PM
Ok, now Ive run into clearance issues.  Can I use the nut you see at the base of the stud sandwiching the tray between that and the top nut.  Now you can see in the pictures how many threads are useable.  That nut is the minimum that I feel I can get away with.  Or, do I need to get all new, fully adjustable studs?  Thanks again!

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0598.jpg&hash=64167c25f8d70cbe18e68d4d50ca7443373e4db1)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0600.jpg&hash=7aa8aa7dec42599cd76dafa514255ee9767e670e)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0599.jpg&hash=5bd8388e35598104acb41403112d09de5c778277)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 26, 2009, 08:51:31 PM
I would get some taller studs, that's what I have and I don't seem to have any issues on my 454...Moroso flat windage tray...

GT
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: povertyjet on March 26, 2009, 08:57:52 PM
I would get some taller studs, that's what I have and I don't seem to have any issues on my 454...Moroso flat windage tray...

GT

X2
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:20:34 PM
Goddam, the mother f'er I bought these bolts from said "Oh yeah they will work just fine",  :banghead: 

Thanks guys  The ones I just ordered are Milodon #81151
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:25:53 PM
Well, look at some pictures while we wait............

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0572.jpg&hash=89a44b2318d19e947eed09bcb83fbb9840caa4b8)

Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:26:47 PM
.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0573.jpg&hash=8e772b71be4700fbca9abff5aed9818e39fb4829)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:27:14 PM
.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2F100_0577.jpg&hash=21280a75398c7bbf8c5317e809b694f9bdb3a49f)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:29:01 PM
Buddy of mine shot this last month.  6'4" long 185lbs.  Big kitty

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2FMtlion.jpg&hash=d9124936cc47566bd2e5509f96643052f6ec411f)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:30:24 PM
Some of the boys.......Nah,  No one I know. just some picture that makes me laugh my ass off

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2Fcrack.jpg&hash=7c5546d971f4a10c73f526593e6c41942924c002)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 26, 2009, 09:33:16 PM
That's a big damn cat ???

Are you planning on running headers? (If yes, you will have some minor interferance issues with the studs....Stud :-*

I hated having to use the grinder on mine...made me cry a little  :'(  I had to clearance the headers and the studs for a set of Bassetts..

GT
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:34:37 PM
That's a big damn cat ???

Are you planning on running headers? (If yes, you will have some minor interferance issues with the studs....Stud :-*

I hated having to use the grinder on mine...made me cry a little  :'(  I had to clearance the headers and the studs for a set of Bassetts..

GT

Nope.  Using logs.  That will work with them right??  God, tell me that will work, please.....
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:35:10 PM
Me and the fiance

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2Fironmt07.jpg&hash=dedf66b1a3dadc5795ed67ca746e148f4ce776cc)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 26, 2009, 09:37:57 PM
Nope.  Using logs.  That will work with them right??  God, tell me that will work, please.....

Logs should clear fine, I think...

BTW put a helmet on that thing!!!!!!   ;)

GT
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:39:48 PM
Logs should clear fine, I think...

BTW put a helmet on that thing!!!!!!   ;)

GT

Too late already have 3 kids.
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on March 26, 2009, 09:42:01 PM
Me, the fiance and Rupert from Survivor!

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2FWith_Rupert.jpg&hash=6c049b04f8c5f2aa93bdf5c8f55e1bea09e20068)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 26, 2009, 09:45:18 PM
Too late already have 3 kids.

;D
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: 2savage4you on March 27, 2009, 06:05:55 PM
Thread jack ;)

What happens if you have a 10qt pan and no windage tray ?
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: motorhome6 on March 27, 2009, 07:15:16 PM
   I'm glad were talking windage tray here cause I'm also doing a windage tray install   Dooley 14 qt pan and tray . I just purchased an ARP stud kit for a BBC it has 10 studs in kit  6 of them are 41/2 long and 4 are  4 1/2 long  w/ a 1 1/2 step down in size making them total of 6 " long  I take it the step down is for the windage tray mount  all though my windage tray has more mount holes than 4 I think 7. I haven't pulled the pan yet but I'm assuming its a 2 bolt main  and maybe the tray is for a 4 bolt main? The directions say to check main bearing bores for out of round condition after changing to the high strenght studs and line bore if necessary. My plan was to pull the bolts out of 1 main cap and torque the studs without removing the cap and disturbing the bearings. Am I way off base thinking about doing that . Do I need to pull the crank and have it checked for out of round after changing to studs . I'm sure that would be the ultimate way but how necessary is it . Does everyone do this. I don't want to ruin my motor . What are you guys doing when you install studs and windage tray.  Thanks for your help       
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: 2savage4you on March 27, 2009, 07:23:34 PM
   I'm glad were talking windage tray here cause I'm also doing a windage tray install   Dooley 14 qt pan and tray . I just purchased an ARP stud kit for a BBC it has 10 studs in kit  6 of them are 41/2 long and 4 are  4 1/2 long  w/ a 1 1/2 step down in size making them total of 6 " long  I take it the step down is for the windage tray mount  all though my windage tray has more mount holes than 4 I think 7. I haven't pulled the pan yet but I'm assuming its a 2 bolt main  and maybe the tray is for a 4 bolt main? The directions say to check main bearing bores for out of round condition after changing to the high strenght studs and line bore if necessary. My plan was to pull the bolts out of 1 main cap and torque the studs without removing the cap and disturbing the bearings. Am I way off base thinking about doing that . Do I need to pull the crank and have it checked for out of round after changing to studs . I'm sure that would be the ultimate way but how necessary is it . Does everyone do this. I don't want to ruin my motor . What are you guys doing when you install studs and windage tray.  Thanks for your help       

That is the reason i dont have a tray in mine... No place to mount it and i wasnt going to buy studs, I figured when i rebuild it then i would buy the studs and do it right ;)

i think if your just swapping over from bolts to studs you should be fine , but what do i know...... My boat hasn't ran in almost 3 years :'(

 :D
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: motorhome6 on March 27, 2009, 07:27:14 PM
how can a boat that looks like yours Steve not be on the water ??
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: motorhome6 on March 27, 2009, 07:29:41 PM
by the way had the MT valve covers polished ....they look awesome
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: 2savage4you on March 27, 2009, 07:49:52 PM
how can a boat that looks like yours Steve not be on the water ??


Long story :'(  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

by the way had the MT valve covers polished ....they look awesome

I bet they do ;)  Thats good to hear
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: SLCKREG on March 27, 2009, 07:51:39 PM
Thread jack ;)

What happens if you have a 10qt pan and no windage tray ?
I'm concerned enough about it(no windage tray) I'm picking up a new pan, my old pan had/has a tray but it wouldn't clear my new stroker crank. It's my understanding that without one the crank can aerate the oil causing an oil pressure issue :o If I'm off the mark here, someone please set me straight.
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: OC2Vegas on March 27, 2009, 07:58:04 PM

Long story :'(  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:


Not really that long of a story.....Only 7 pages!  ;)

http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=5884.0 (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=5884.0)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 27, 2009, 09:23:11 PM
A windage tray is IMO a necessity when your talking about that much surface area to aerate, the windage from the crank (especially any kind of stroker application) would make the oil pan like a bubble bath.

Most high performance pans have some built in windage control, but could always be improved upon..

If there is no windage control, the oil needs to be as far away as possible from the rotating assy., which in a jet boat application is impossible to obtain...

GT
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: crewchief22 on March 28, 2009, 09:04:13 AM
I've had intemittent issues with pushing oil out of the dipstick on hard runs.  During the Mead trip it pushed probably 1/2 quart out in one run (I know it happened during one long pass with the diverter in full up position (maybe more load?)).  Then with several other full throttle runs without the diverter change it would only push out the dipstick a little and no oil.

Mine still has a stock oil pan, so I'm thinking that the problem is due to excessive windage that is changed by load or attitude of the boat.

A new pan/windage tray is planned when the engine gets freshened up.
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: HDriderTH on March 28, 2009, 09:44:46 AM
I've had intemittent issues with pushing oil out of the dipstick on hard runs.  During the Mead trip it pushed probably 1/2 quart out in one run (I know it happened during one long pass with the diverter in full up position (maybe more load?)).  Then with several other full throttle runs without the diverter change it would only push out the dipstick a little and no oil.

Mine still has a stock oil pan, so I'm thinking that the problem is due to excessive windage that is changed by load or attitude of the boat.

A new pan/windage tray is planned when the engine gets freshened up.


BINGO
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: 2savage4you on March 28, 2009, 11:24:41 AM
                            ::)

Well i guess im not gonna worry about a tray now......

Im too close
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: SLCKREG on March 28, 2009, 06:07:27 PM
A windage tray is IMO a necessity when your talking about that much surface area to aerate, the windage from the crank (especially any kind of stroker application) would make the oil pan like a bubble bath.

Most high performance pans have some built in windage control, but could always be improved upon..

If there is no windage control, the oil needs to be as far away as possible from the rotating assy., which in a jet boat application is impossible to obtain...

GT
Thanks GT, for a straight fwd. answer. My new motor isn't worth taking a chance with a cheap pan. O0
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: 2savage4you on March 28, 2009, 06:25:51 PM
Now that i remember by going thru old pics , this is the pan and it only had the short windage tray ( the rear ) i left off due to no studs..

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi223.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd269%2F2savage4you%2F013-9.jpg&hash=db895c72babd0343a59c919fbc7737f611a6b6c6)
the pan i took off the eliminator is the oposite, its a full lenght windage tray... So i got myself confused again cause i look at it everyday but  i think i will be just fine with that pan i have on my engine  ;)
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: GT Jets on March 28, 2009, 07:02:01 PM
Now that i remember by going thru old pics , this is the pan and it only had the short windage tray ( the rear ) i left off due to no studs..

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi223.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd269%2F2savage4you%2F013-9.jpg&hash=db895c72babd0343a59c919fbc7737f611a6b6c6)
the pan i took off the eliminator is the oposite, its a full lenght windage tray... So i got myself confused again cause i look at it everyday but  i think i will be just fine with that pan i have on my engine  ;)

These work well...The last big block I had had a Dooley pan and a crank scraper, IMHO way overkill, but it didn't have any windage issues whatsoever..And we could put 11 quarts in it without issues and that lowered the oil temp. to a nice 220*F  O0

GT
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: motorhome6 on March 29, 2009, 02:00:22 PM
 I'm almost talking myself out ofchanging main cap bolts to studs until later on . Instead of installing windage tray on the studs  if I figured out exactly where the tray would line up in the pan to just clear the crank could I just weld the windage tray inside the pan instead like I have seen or is there a reason there on the main cap studs. It would sure simplify things. Does anyone see a reason for not doing this.....................motorhome6   
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Sleeper CP 19 on April 11, 2009, 02:14:30 PM
Me and the fiance

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu127%2Fgnx_2%2Fironmt07.jpg&hash=dedf66b1a3dadc5795ed67ca746e148f4ce776cc)

Mr. Plow never let anyone you care about ride on your street bikes with shorts on.....VERy VERY Very bad idea.

S CP  ;D
Title: Re: Windage tray
Post by: Mr Plow on April 11, 2009, 04:35:15 PM
Yeah and we should probably be wearing helmets too.  If she wants to wear her bee catchers thats her business. 
SMFPacks CMS 1.0.3 © 2026