SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: beerjet on September 17, 2008, 08:18:32 PM
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(https://www.socaljetboats.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10034/Engine_parts.jpg)
First time I've ever seen this ???
-beerjet-
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Them be straight cut gears. No timing chain, just gear to gear mesh, keeps your timing in check.
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arent these the gears that make some random kind of 'whine' when on the throttle?
Reid
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Them be straight cut gears. No timing chain, just gear to gear mesh, keeps your timing in check.
Actually angle cut gears and the top gear has GM casting numbers .
-beerjet-
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Right
Left hand rotation engine..... ;)
Cam goes same direction, crank, she go backwards...Common in older twin engine boats, one is counter-rotating..
Edit, I mean right........ :banghead:
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Nice gear drive, what kind of other goodies are you going to find in that motor.
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Where the hell did you find that? ???
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In 76 bonnevilles new block ;D
-beerjet-
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The way things are looking, maybe you should sell me the complete short block. ::)
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You could mount it in your jetboat, but will need to run the power through a vee drive...
Here is what you gots... O0 Good motor, just don't use the rear main, starter, front seal, timing set, otherwise your golden 8)
http://www.ebasicpower.com/c/MER6Y/Timing+Kits+for+Mercruiser
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GT, are you saying this motor came out of a twin engine v-drive, and this is the counter rotating motor?
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GT, are you saying this motor came out of a twin engine v-drive, and this is the counter rotating motor?
Reverse rotation engine from an inboard...
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The way things are looking, maybe you should sell me the complete short block. ::)
Asking price is getting harder and harder to come up with . I dont know if this makes it worth anymore but it sure is going to make performance parts alittle harder to come I think . ???
-beerjet-
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Do you have any history on this engine?
I thought I remember GM using a reverse rotation cam (gear to gear) in a tall deck 366/427 big block truck motor in the late 70's, early 80's.
Let me see if I can find anything to verify it.
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Looking at the gears on that motor, that does look like a lefty, still not sure though the helical cut gears look wrong for a revers rotation motor, then again, I had three drinks with my tri-tip and taters...
GT
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beerjet, do you have the timing cover/pointer and balancer from that motor ? If its a reverse rotation motor the timing marks/numbers will be backwards from a standard motor, right guys ? Might just have a reverse rotating cam grind ??? .
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Thats a tall deck, just found it, the gears are cut to draw the cam to the block, look at the angle of the gears, also, all of the right hand engines had bolts in the cam to the gear.
Good call crewechief!
Killer motor if you know how to get stuff for it without going broke....Intake, distributor, pistons, etc....
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beerjet, do you have the timing cover/pointer and balancer from that motor ? If its a reverse rotation motor the timing marks/numbers will be backwards from a standard motor, right guys ? Might just have a reverse rotating cam grind ??? .
There you go again proppy, using common sense ;D
Its more fun to play "name that part", your just cheating ;)
Sooo when we gonna see that boat of yours running?, am I going to beat you to the water?
I'm shooting for the second week in October, if its not snowing (cooled off quik up here).
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I ran the number on the norcal marine site and it didnt say anything about a tall deck . It does say that it is a 454 . The mortec site says they are either 2 or 4 bolts . This one is a 4 bolt . 3999289 is the best I can read the numbers on the back . This is getting interesting .
-beerjet-
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What is the part number on the timing gear (cam) I'm using a laptop and can't read it.
GT
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What is the part number on the timing gear (cam) I'm using a laptop and can't read it.
GT
Since I didnt take a good picture , I cant even read it from the full size image . I'll get them tommorrow .
-beerjet-
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After doing some searching on the computer, supposedly the easy way to tell a tall block is at the water pump mounts. The tall block has a .400 taller deck height and extra height is not raised at the water pump surface (the standard block water pump surface meets the deck surface).
So with this new found knowledge that block doesn't look like a tall block.
Back to you GT ;D
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After doing some searching on the computer, supposedly the easy way to tell a tall block is at the water pump mounts. The tall block has a .400 taller deck height and extra height is not raised at the water pump surface (the standard block water pump surface meets the deck surface).
So with this new found knowledge that block doesn't look like a tall block.
Back to you GT ;D
I thought the deck highth was measured from crank center to cam center ???
-beerjet-
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I think what you are thinking is a raised cam block (I haven't done any research on that one), but a tall deck block is .400 taller at the cylinder head deck surfice. The pistons were much thicker above the wrist pin and used 3 compression rings.
I read that one of the reasons was because the small bore on the 366 caused excessive heat in the combustion chamber and would melt holes in the pistons.
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3856351
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10034/Bottom_end_003.jpg)
-beerjet-
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One other thing , I didnt think these 454's came internally balanced . The damper on the left came on it and the one on the left was off my motor . Am I missing something here ???
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10034/Balancers.jpg)
-beerjet-
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One other thing , I didnt think these 454's came internally balanced . The damper on the left came on it and the one on the left was off my motor . Am I missing something here ???
-beerjet-
There are several possibilities.
First, it may not be a 454. 427 and smaller were internally balanced and would use the balancer on the left. Measure the bore and stroke.
Second, it could be a 454 that someone went to the trouble/expense of having internally balanced.
Third possibility is that someone was running the wrong balancer.
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This all sounds like too much trouble. You should just give it all to me and find something else to build ;D
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This all sounds like too much trouble. You should just give it all to me and find something else to build ;D
Except the block
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This all sounds like too much trouble. You should just give it all to me and find something else to build ;D
That sure sounds like something that Bahner Boy would be saying about now. >:D
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I'm surprised Mr. wishy washy hasnt chimed in yet .
-beerjet-
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I'm surprised Mr. wishy washy hasnt chimed in yet .
-beerjet-
Thanks guy's
::)
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Thanks guy's
::)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10034/friends.gif)
-beerjet-
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Just throw a standard deck manifold on top of it and see how it fits. If everything lines up, it's a standard deck, if it don't it's a tall deck. ;) Looks like you've got plenty of engine parts laying around there, I'm sure you can come up with something. ::)
If the casting # says it's a tall deck, then it's a tall deck block. BUT, it may have been decked, so that they didn't have to fuk with all the normal tall deck issues. ;)
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I don't think it's possible to deck a tall deck engine down to a standard block. You're talking about .400 (about 7/16").
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I don't think it's possible to deck a tall deck engine down to a standard block. You're talking about .400 (about 7/16").
I never said it was right, but there are some dumb ass people in this world. :screwy:
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but there are some dumb ass people in this world. :screwy:
luckily none of those people own jet boats ;D
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You think :sly: Ive seen some real dumbasses with jet boats ;D ;D
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Fellas, I got nothing, my dad is at Lake Tahoe, and my uncle (35+ year automotive machinist who has seen it all) is with him (fishing ???), I will talk to them tomorrow, if they don't know what it is, it probably doesn't exist......... :sly:
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Oh, and BTW if there were no Dumbass owned jetboats out there this forum wouldn't exist ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Fellas, I got nothing, my dad is at Lake Tahoe, and my uncle (35+ year automotive machinist who has seen it all) is with him (fishing ???), I will talk to them tomorrow, if they don't know what it is, it probably doesn't exist......... :sly:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10034/Ranger.gif)
-beerjet-
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(https://www.socaljetboats.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10034/Ranger.gif)
-beerjet-
Believe this or not, I just walked in the door, and this is the first place I went, after throwing some killer re-runs in the micro, DAMN this site! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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I've got a printout of the Mortec BBC site in front of me, and found your block number.
It says: 3999289....454.......71-79...2 or 4 bolt, some "CE" replacement blocks had four bolt main caps
So that being said it is a standard deck, I don't care what anybody else says. ;)
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Believe this or not, I just walked in the door, and this is the first place I went, after throwing some killer re-runs in the micro, DAMN this site! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I've been off work since wedsday till whofuckinknows and I've been here all day :banghead:
-beerjet-
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If the casting # says it's a tall deck, then it's a tall deck block. BUT, it may have been decked, so that they didn't have to fuk with all the normal tall deck issues. ;)
No need to be checking different manifolds or running to the PC to check numbers. Factory tall decks have a 1/8" pipe plug that is just above the timing cover to the right.
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No need to be checking different manifolds or running to the PC to check numbers. Factory tall decks have a 1/8" pipe plug that is just above the timing cover to the right.
Ok, that too. Also, the water inlet locations work as well.
I've been meaning to ask about that plug. Is that oil or water? I'm looking for somewhere to attach a gauge to check my oil pressure, without unhooking my electrical gauge. Will that plug work, or is it for something else?
Thanks. :)
Here's a front shot of a tall deck block, for anyone who needs a visual.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi248.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg178%2Fpatrickv8193%2FDSC00372.jpg&hash=743b52b3c06fa1027f7a6e1c4b89cecf1fd50ae9)
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AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
-beerjet-
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Great pic, thanks.
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454 Chevy from a heavy duty truck, like a 60 series, (now called Topkick/Kodiaks), they had the 454 option that had the same valvetrain as a Talldeck 366/427.
This is a best guess, but came from two different sources...Probably from a truck or a motorhome.
GT
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Ok, that too. Also, the water inlet locations work as well.
I've been meaning to ask about that plug. Is that oil or water? I'm looking for somewhere to attach a gauge to check my oil pressure, without unhooking my electrical gauge. Will that plug work, or is it for something else?
Thanks. :)
That plug will work to check oil pressure
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That plug will work to check oil pressure
Thanks!!!!! ;D
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Thanks for the block Omar. When I got home I checked the #'s and its the same casting # as the one in the Rogers. Its a 1971 and my other is a 72. I'll take by the engine builder this week and have tell me how he wants it machined.
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Thank you Ron . ;D I'm glad your happy
-beerjet-
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That Be "REVERSE ROTATION"
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Anyone want the gears ?
-beerjet-
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I thought the deck highth was measured from crank center to cam center ???
-beerjet-
The deck is where the head gasket sits.
You are correct about starting the measurement at the crank center, but it is crank center to the deck surface. Taller it is, the longer rod you can use.