SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Gelcoat / Paint / Fireberglass Repair => Topic started by: JBASHAM on July 07, 2015, 04:44:17 PM
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I have a light layup Bahner. Under the deck today and I noticed where the Cap and hull meet is cracked about a 12 inch long section.
What type of glass and resin should I use? Would kitty hair be OK?
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No on the kitty hair. I would use west systems epoxy for your patch. I like the bond you get with it. I would use 2 to 4 layers of mat and middle layer of cloth And top.
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I agree ! With the west system. That is gonna be messy!!! Your gonna have to do some sanding and grinding!!!
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I agree ! With the west system. That is gonna be messy!!! Your gonna have to do some sanding and grinding!!!
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Do I have to grind it out on the outside too? Or would just reinforcing the inside work...
I really just need a temporary fix to get me through my lake vacation next week. Then do it right after that.
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The deck to hull is normally just tabbed with 3" tape and glass. Is this what we are talking about?
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The deck to hull is normally just tabbed with 3" tape and glass. Is this what we are talking about?
Yes sir. Behind where the rubrail would be.
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Just prep it good on the inside and re tab it and it will last a long time if you prep and clean it proper. I would just use vinyl ester resin and basically duplicate what was there before
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Yes sir. Behind where the rubrail would be.
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Crack open a beer :beer: while you open up your supplies. Scruff it up with some 80 grit (wear a respirator, full face if you have one) Crack open another beer :beer: while the dust settles. Wet some finish cloth with some West Systems (I use the Tap version http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/epoxy_resins/tap_marine_grade_epoxy_system/27 (http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/epoxy_resins/tap_marine_grade_epoxy_system/27) ) and slap it on there. Crack open another beer :beer: while using a squeegee to smooth it up.
Clean up the mess, then of course, crack open another beer :beer: to celebrate such a great repair... :thumbup: The way I see it, this is a four beer job at best....
GT
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Crack open a beer :beer: while you open up your supplies. Scruff it up with some 80 grit (wear a respirator, full face if you have one) Crack open another beer :beer: while the dust settles. Wet some finish cloth with some West Systems (I use the Tap version http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/epoxy_resins/tap_marine_grade_epoxy_system/27 (http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/epoxy_resins/tap_marine_grade_epoxy_system/27) ) and slap it on there. Crack open another beer :beer: while using a squeegee to smooth it up.
Clean up the mess, then of course, crack open another beer :beer: to celebrate such a great repair... :thumbup: The way I see it, this is a four beer job at best....
GT
Thanks. Glad to hear it's not that bad. I thought my hull was done...I was already thinking of reasons to tell my wife that I needed a new one.
Also, I would love to get that product you mentioned or west systems, but I'm up in the high desert with not a lot of options or time.. Would something else suffice from Napa or a hardware store???
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Thanks. Glad to hear it's not that bad. I thought my hull was done...I was already thinking of reasons to tell my wife that I needed a new one.
Also, I would love to get that product you mentioned or west systems, but I'm up in the high desert with not a lot of options or time.. Would something else suffice from Napa or a hardware store???
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Regular old Fiberglass resin (polyester) will work killer, not to mention cure in about 20 minutes.
GT
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Awesome thank you!
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Just a heads up, using epoxy resin and mat together is a bad idea. The epoxy is way to thick and you will shred the mat trying to wet it out and work out any air especially with limited lay up experience
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Just a heads up, using epoxy resin and mat together is a bad idea. The epoxy is way to thick and you will shred the mat trying to wet it out and work out any air especially with limited lay up experience
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Roger that. Im gonna go with the polyester resin. Thank you
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No need to grind the outside. Just rough up the inside effected area and fling a wet patch.
How long of an area are we taking?
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Roger that. Im gonna go with the polyester resin. Thank you
ya you will be better off that way but if you can use vinyl ester resin it is much stronger. If you want to pm me I can probably send you everything that you will need
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No need to grind the outside. Just rough up the inside effected area and fling a wet patch.
How long of an area are we taking?
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Never mind. It was right there in words.
12", you're good.
GT
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No need to grind the outside. Just rough up the inside effected area and fling a wet patch.
How long of an area are we taking?
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I noticed this "separation" while I was under the deck fitting a new bulkhead. I think this problem stemmed from to much flex because I didn't have a bulkhead in.
So, while on the subject...
How many layers of cloth should I cover the bulkhead with and would the same polyester resin be ok??
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ya you will be better off that way but if you can use vinyl ester resin it is much stronger. If you want to pm me I can probably send you everything that you will need
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Hey thanks a lot for the offer, but I have to get this done asap. So im just going to get something local and get moving!
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I wouldn't use polyester resin for anything structural, but thats my opinion .
I used foam board for my forward bulk head so I saturated it and laid 4 layers on each side and the laminated it in with biaxial.
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Polyester is what the hull is likely built from.
It's plenty strong.
In a separate note.
Make certain the the bulkhead has clearance around the perimeter and that the wood does not concentrate contact anywhere.
I have used cotton rope around the outside of the wood while I tab in in place. Once the tabs are cured, pull the rope and glass it in. I guess theoretically you could leave the rope in place. You need about 3/16" to 1/4" of a gap. Major spider webbing will result if the contact is not controlled.
Good luck bud.
GT
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Polyester is what the hill is likely built from.
It's plenty strong.
In a separate note.
Make certain the the bulkhead has clearance around the perimeter and that the wood does not concentrate contact anywhere.
I have used cotton rope around the outside of the wood while I tab in in place. Once the tabs are cured, pull the rope and glass it in. I guess theoretically you could leave the rope in place. You need about 3/16" to 1/4" of a gap. Major spider webbing will result if the contact is not controlled.
Good luck bud.
GT
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i understand that it was built with polyester but it was also built probably in the 70s resins have come along way since then and polyester resin is really cheap so only real cheap boat manufacturers use it to build boats these days. I worked in fiberglass repair shop for along time and we never used polyester on our boat repairs, we only used it for building parts and making molds.
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i understand that it was built with polyester but it was also built probably in the 70s resins have come along way since then and polyester resin is really cheap so only real cheap boat manufacturers use it to build boats these days. I worked in fiberglass repair shop for along time and we never used polyester on our boat repairs, we only used it for building parts and making molds.
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Just saying for this simple repair, polyester will not only work fine, but he should be able to find it on the shelf.
GT
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Polyester is what the hull is likely built from.
It's plenty strong.
In a separate note.
Make certain the the bulkhead has clearance around the perimeter and that the wood does not concentrate contact anywhere.
I have used cotton rope around the outside of the wood while I tab in in place. Once the tabs are cured, pull the rope and glass it in. I guess theoretically you could leave the rope in place. You need about 3/16" to 1/4" of a gap. Major spider webbing will result if the contact is not controlled.
Good luck bud.
GT
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Thank you!
Yea ive read a few different threads about it, so right now Im fitting a cardboard template and I have about 1/4"ish gap all the around. Plan is to shim it with paint sticks, tab it in place, then pull the sticks and glass it in with 4" cloth.
Will a single layer of cloth and resin be good to seal the wood bulkhead with before installation?
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Thank you!
Yea ive read a few different threads about it, so right now Im fitting a cardboard template and I have about 1/4"ish gap all the around. Plan is to shim it with paint sticks, tab it in place, then pull the sticks and glass it in with 4" cloth.
Will a single layer of cloth and resin be good to seal the wood bulkhead with before installation?
More than adequate.
What I tend to do with polyester is to first coat the bare wood with a hot coat.
Thin some resin with acetone (about 25% acetone to resin) and catalyze normally and roll it into the bare wood. The thin resin soaks right in.
I normally use laminating resin for this, but it can always be sanded before subsequent coatings.
GT
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Just a heads up, using epoxy resin and mat together is a bad idea. The epoxy is way to thick and you will shred the mat trying to wet it out and work out any air especially with limited lay up experience
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. Never had a issue with epoxy and mat
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. Never had a issue with epoxy and mat
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It has to do with the bonding agent in the mat not dissolving and causing the mat to keep its form.
Normally very noticeable when trying to contour.
GT
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It has to do with the bonding agent in the mat not dissolving and causing the mat to keep its form.
Normally very noticeable when trying to contour.
GT
. I still have never had a problem. But I guess you could from what you are saying. But we were talking about a flat 3" wide patch I like the bond you get with it for the hard to get to areas where prep maybe questionable. JMO
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Holy fiberglass!
Got the hull to cap separation fixed, and built and installed the new bulkhead in 2 nights after work.
Quite the learning experience.
I think I'm still high from all the fumes!
Thanks guys for the tips and advice.
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. I still have never had a problem. But I guess you could from what you are saying. But we were talking about a flat 3" wide patch I like the bond you get with it for the hard to get to areas where prep maybe questionable. JMO
The problem is actually with the resin bonding properly to the fibers. The styrene-based adhesive used to hold the short fibers (while on the roll) dissolves in polyester resin during the wetting out process. This doesn't happen with epoxy. The styrene-based adhesive does not dissolve and will actually act like a masking agent causing the epoxy to bond to it rather than to the actual fibers.
Improper bonding to the fibers reduces the overall tensile strength of the part because the fibers are not properly supported in the resin/fiber matrix. The fibers actually have a a higher tensile strength than the resin. The tensile strength of the finished product is an average of the the that of the fibers and resin. If the fibers are not bonded properly, they can actually pull through the resin on failure.