SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Gelcoat / Paint / Fireberglass Repair => Topic started by: UNDONE on October 23, 2007, 05:28:42 PM
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Well since the new boat has a tower on it, my friend Brandon and I got a couple wild hairs up our asses to build a box out of fiberglass for the 6x9s we pulled out of my jet boat...
Here it goes. Throughout this little semi-tutorial remember that what you see as the top will actually be the bottom. The bottom (flat) will mount on the underside of the tower.
First step. DONT MEASURE ANYTHING! Do it all by eye... except the rings for the speakers of course. Use a stencil.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox007.jpg&hash=1ba13b56ccf72affaeedef415178aec6132d717e)
Sorry I don't have more of a step by step but we really didnt pre-measure anything... just guessed and did it all in my head.
Everything gets nailed together using finishing nails.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox008.jpg&hash=630166db9ff3c0488bf2e5636029584fe74e1102)
The diamond piece was actually going to be the back portion of the box where the solid circles are... Decided last minute that the diamond was too small and didnt have enough wood to cut a larger one. so It gives some shape to the top. In this picture we were experimenting with diamond placement.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox010.jpg&hash=b04994c1ef7d2e0b18aa55d62f071ecc3d11e292)
Back view
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox012.jpg&hash=62a63a5fa0620bb40912226a994450da775e4a97)
Ahh diamond's doing better flat...
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox014.jpg&hash=766ed281ac71f85607bec1cd9ecdca6ea674e352)
Back view again...
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox016.jpg&hash=e3b78fd463f1387fe423e527e042f95c3a426dc0)
Wood glue is important considering the speakers pulsing and the vibration/impact of the boat traveling through the water... Don't want anything coming apart and rattling in the future.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox022.jpg&hash=704de4d3b9782520118b7b39c41b97681585f08e)
Next cover the entire box with nylon. The nylon will act as a somewhat firm surface to start laying the fiberglass.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox025.jpg&hash=891d77bc3d3a2288c222ec6bbb8fb76f2fc8e54c)
Oh ya don't forget the resin the nylon and let it dry overnight.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox026.jpg&hash=561622f4c153513d4e40c274c8751365881c64d4)
Almost done resining the nylon
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox034.jpg&hash=51a371161b25d264102dab71d1aca1de56c67129)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox035.jpg&hash=8b026d5c870f988367d57f7f8438cb8bf1c358e0)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox038.jpg&hash=440de9e62971c76bdcbc930e4acf34bb8aa94a51)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox041.jpg&hash=2bd63330bb2cf4b44649d445f8e23d461e2a8915)
These next few are just after the first layer of fiberglass. As of last saturday the second layer of fiberglass is almost done, don't have any updated pics. It looks the same. So far I've been working on it an average of a half hour a night for the last week. Looking forward to meeting all your tunage needs at the water next summer... Already have 4 6.5" component speakers on the tower, 2-12" subwoofers, 4 6.5" components throughout the inside of boat two 600 watt RMS Eclipse 4 channel amps and a P.O.S. sony for the subs.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox043.jpg&hash=2a2dedaa1b722b4cb33d4e56e3630ada3711bec6)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb190%2Fbluerider125%2FFiberglassBox046.jpg&hash=0bea94f2413fdfb0b98802464a429f21c9cf5591)
What do you guys think so far? Worth continuing? I'm getting tired of this fiberglass work... Starting the third coat tonight.
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keep on going looks good so far
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Put those Kids to work in the background!
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Wish i would of thought of that when i was building boxes for my lowered nissan's ;D would have been alot lighter. Are you even gonna chamber the speakers so they dont fight one another and where are you going to put it? I didnt do much reading so if i missed it sorry. But it looks cool ;)
2sav
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How much does all that MDF wiegh ?
-beerjet-
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How much does all that MDF wiegh ?
-beerjet-
::)
2sav
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I predict lots of bondo and sanding in your future. The fiberglass looks pretty rough the work is just starting for you ;). I was a installer for a few years and right where you are at in the project is about where I would loose steam...
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I predict lots of bondo and sanding in your future. The fiberglass looks pretty rough the work is just starting for you ;). I was a installer for a few years and right where you are at in the project is about where I would loose steam...
Which means it will just get heavier. I hope you have a good mounting system ???
Still would love to see it completed ;D
2sav
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The whole sheet of MDF was too heavy for me to carry.... The box itself weighs in at 7lbs with two layers of glass. One more layer to go... As far as the speakers fighting each other... I've heard varying opinions that ultimately led me to the belief that having a single large enclosure, speakers matched both in size/model, having them all lined up together and spaced evenly would produce the best quality sound. I am by far an amateur. If you reference subwoofers, many custom builders put 5 or more subwoofers in the same fully enclosed box (unpartitioned)... This is all an experiment for me, I was just board and have a $1000 roll of fiberglass sitting in the garage. All I needed was some resin, MDF, and a lot of patience... By the way, this is my first time dealing with fiberglass.
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That sounds good
Lets see the finished product ;D
2sav
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The whole sheet of MDF was too heavy for me to carry.... The box itself weighs in at 7lbs with two layers of glass. One more layer to go... As far as the speakers fighting each other... I've heard varying opinions that ultimately led me to the belief that having a single large enclosure, speakers matched both in size/model, having them all lined up together and spaced evenly would produce the best quality sound. I am by far an amateur. If you reference subwoofers, many custom builders put 5 or more subwoofers in the same fully enclosed box (unpartitioned)... This is all an experiment for me, I was just board and have a $1000 roll of fiberglass sitting in the garage. All I needed was some resin, MDF, and a lot of patience... By the way, this is my first time dealing with fiberglass.
A lot like jet boats (droop or no droop, which loader is best, etc...), car/boat audio has a lot of opinions. Some of the opinions can be substanciated with fact. The main reason that you can put X amount of subwoofers in a box that has no dividers is because of the frequencies the subwoofers produce. Most subs (in a standard "3-way" system) cut off around 80 Hz and there is very little, if any, stereo seperation in that low of a frequency range. Once the speakers get into a frequency range where stereo is "heard", seperate enclosures are mandatory for the "best" sound. I wouldn't halt your project due to a lack of a divider in the enclosure. BTW, the reason that subwoofer boxes should not be built without a divider is due to the flex of the box's walls, the more the flex the more sound quality and quantity that is lost. The lightest way to build the project that you are building is for you to finish your project, splash it and make the splash the mold, and then use your mold to make the final project. Whether or not that will be required will depend on the final enclosure's weight.
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enclosure looks sweet, when dealing w/ 6x9's u souldnt have a problem w/ any of those factors as posted above.....i love the sound of sealed up 6x9...just take your time finishing the box and sand, sand, sand and it will look great....
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enclosure looks sweet, when dealing w/ 6x9's u souldnt have a problem w/ any of those factors as posted above.....i love the sound of sealed up 6x9...just take your time finishing the box and sand, sand, sand and it will look great....
A lot like jet boats (droop or no droop, which loader is best, etc...), car/boat audio has a lot of opinions. Some of the opinions can be substanciated with fact...
::) ;D
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Yes 6x9's do sound good in a single enclosed box. But they are a different animal compared to subs.
Subs move alot of air and in a single box it sounds great but put them in a big box with no chambers and you just limited your subs sound and life span. That air that is being pushed by that single sub go's to the next sub and stall's it and so on. Maybe now with the new equipment out these day's it might be different from when i was building stereo's, but i doubt it ;)
Put it this way, have you ever pushed on a sub with your hand and the other one moves a little? thats exactly what happens under power and destroys the subs over time of course thats only in a non chambered box. A chambered box will not affect the other subs movement at all if built right. (no leaky's) ;D
And then we have ported boxes.
Put your hand over the port and you can feel the air moving out of the box, This is the same air thats trapped in the box and just rolls around creating back pressure (if you will) on your subs movement in a non chambered box.
2sav
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Which means it will just get heavier. I hope you have a good mounting system ???
Still would love to see it completed ;D
2sav
I am losing steam. The glass was rough. Now it's all been sanded pretty good. Have some areas to go over again... Then some Bondo and paint. It's been interesting. It will be mounted on the tower, I have two 4" pieces of 1/16" steel sheet metal glassed onto the inside of the box to spread the load from the small area of a bolt head to a 4" plate. It will be mounted with a clamp similar to the clamps on these speakers-
http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-White-07-Wakeboard-Tower-Boat-Speakers-NEW_W0QQitemZ110182490990QQihZ001QQcategoryZ23807QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
These are the speakers I currently have on the tower.
I understand all of what you just said 2sav, and it was taken into consideration... Aside from the resin, I have nothing invested in this other than time. Good stuff. So you think I should port the box?
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6x9's are cheap enough, throw them sum bitches in there a crank it up!~
They want to be wakeboarding and be able to hear the music behind the boat!
Looks good ;D
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I dont know what you plan on using for subs in the box but i would not port it until you hear it first. If it sounds ok leave it alone but you will not get much for a good sound at a high volume.
When you port a box it depends on the frequency the sub and of course the dimensions of the box are all big factors ;D so if you want to experiment with porting after you hear it and dont like the way it sounds, this might sound cheap or ghetto but alot of people use the 2" or larger pvc pipe for porting their boxes. This way you can cut different lengths and see what gives you the best sound and performence at higher decibels without distorting the subs.
Dont let this bring you down or stop you from building it. You have a good idea and should continue it.
Now all you can do if perfect it ;D
2sav
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Got a single 12" bandpass box that used to be in a boat fo sale ;)
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Got a single 12" bandpass box that used to be in a boat fo sale ;)
You should keep it for the PT boat ;D
2sav
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2 sav , Do you actually read the threads that you post in? He said it was for six by nines! And if you can't read you could tell by looking at the box , seeing how the surfaces for mounting were oblonged.
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2 sav , Do you actually read the threads that you post in? He said it was for six by nines! And if you can't read you could tell by looking at the box , seeing how the surfaces for mounting were oblonged.
Sorry my fault, it looked to me it was for 10" subs
Thanks for pointing that out ;D
2sav
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Sorry my fault, it looked to me it was for 10" subs
Thanks for pointing that out ;D
2sav
Doh!
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thread title = "Re: Tower Speaker Fiberglass Box 6x9s."
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thread title = "Re: Tower Speaker Fiberglass Box 6x9s."
yes i did not read the title, i looked at the pic and it took me back in the day when i used to do that stuff. Im sorry if i threw you off track its my fault for not paying attention.
2sav
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So now that you know we're talking 6x9's what's the diagnosis?
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So now that you know we're talking 6x9's what's the diagnosis?
The box need's some type of sound deadener inside like dynamat or a thin mat, some people have even used house insulation off the roll. I dont recomend that.
Being the box is more fiberglass than wood it will sound like a old am radio ( tinny) It needs some depth to it.
Maybe check your local stereo shop and see what they use?
2sav
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I have a few sheets of dynamat... I'll use quite a bit of it...
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I have a few sheets of dynamat... I'll use quite a bit of it...
Just enough to cover the inside of the box ;D any more is a waste.
Good luck cant wait to see it finished.
2sav
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Dynomat adds a lot of weight!
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It weighs 7 pounds as of right now. Speakers might be 10. Dynamat I'm figuring 1 sheet, maybe 1 1/2 sheets. So another lb. MDF is pretty strong especially when the load is going to be spread by 1/16" thick steel 4"x4" sheetmetal in 4 spots and all those 4"x4" plates have two sheets of glass over them. So the bolt and washer will actually have 3 layers of glass, 1/16" of steel, 3/4" MDF, and 1/2" of rubber between the 4 mounts and the steel tubing of the tower...
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Another thing to remember, MDF is a sponge when it finds water ;)
2sav
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Well it is already covered completely by resin. then wrapped by glass/resin. Then the bondo will help, not to mention the paint ultimately sealing the entire package.
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Sounds like you got it handled ;D
2sav
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Damn I fell like tooting my own horn in this thread and it crossed my mind that marcsrollin might toot my horn as well ( no pun intended ), but I've been doing this sh!t for way too long.
Keep the project going!
The 6 X 9's are full range right? Playing all of the "musical notes" right? It would be better if there was a divider between the left and right speakers, but I wouldn't ditch the current project due to a lack of a divider. The sound will be more "muddier" due to the lack of a divider. The left and right speakers will "fight each other" due to the lack of a divider. The "fighting" will shorten the life span of the speakers but not so much to ditch the project, negligable (sp?) at best.
Fiberglass is used for sound deadoning. Fiberglass is used for insulation (heat, sound, whatever, etc...). There is absolutely no reason to add Dynamat to any fiberglass enclosure. Ever. This is of course assuming that the enclosure itself is of sound design and thick enough to not flex under the power given to the speaker.
In mounting the speakers to the fiberglassed/resined MDF use the coursest (sp?) screw thread you can find. If the MDF happens to strip out, replacing the MDF will not be an option.
About 30 or 40 years ago speaker manufacturers would add fiberglass (similar to house insulation) to their speaker enclosures to get a increase of bass response. The more modern manner to do the same thing is to use synthetic pillow stuffing. Ironically, the sole reason the insulation worked in the first place, to improve bass response, was because the design of the enclosures was too small for the speakers.
Lastly, music has changed. Big time. When I'm writing about left and right speakers "fighting each other" most of the current music today is not as "stereo" as it was back in the day. My fav band, the original Van Halen, would have Eddie coming out of the right speaker, Alex and Michael Anothony coming out of the laft speaker, and David Lee Roth spitting out of both speakers, now that is stereo seperation. Not so much today. Also a lot of todays stereo seperation is purely for hmmm... impact. You'll have a jammin' almost non-stereo seperated session go to silence and then the lead singer come in with lyrics and then have the recording immediately go into a non-stereo seperated recording.
A lot of this sh!t is theory. I will never forget the lesson I got in a "long port". But that's a long story, maybe another time.
Damn, I need a drink. :P
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BTW - disclaimer - I am in no way writing that any other person's opinion on this topic is wrong or mis-guided.
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Stuff the box with polyfill (pillowstuffing) that will slow the air down and help the speakers not "fight" each other. It will also cure some resonance the box will naturally have. I agree with Rod no dynamat waist of $$$$.
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My buddy has a stereo shop. Got the 6x9's and two big boxes of dynamat ($200 each retail) all for $125...
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thanks for sharing your work! I thought about doing some fiberglass enclosures several time but never got off my arse to do so... maybe this will give me the kick for a winter project. Pending on the amount of flex in your box, I'd skip the d-mat and use it for your car/truck instead. Like the fore mentioned tar paper works and it is cheap -it does smell at first b/c of the well.. the TAR, but in a boat application that really wouldn't matter too much You can pick up polyfil pretty cheap at partsexpress or other online retailers. Keep us posted...
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Probably won't be working on it this weekend. However, this sucker does not flex.... My friend accidentally stepped on it last night and nothing budged. I watched it happen and nothing moved, flexed, or sank! I was really impressed. If anyone has a need for fiberglass fabric I have a HUGE roll.
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any updates? I dig watching these projects develop... hopefully you stay strong and don't give up!
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no progress... Been working saturdays and going to the lake on sundays... Now by the time I get off work it's already dark, so I don't feel like doing much...