SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Hulls => Topic started by: bbfsouthwind on July 05, 2009, 01:31:09 PM
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I have 2 cracks in the hull of my southwind jet. I have gotten them all sanded down and prepped on the outside and i am getting ready to cut out the floor to get to the inside so that i can glass them from in there too. The cracks were in the boat when i got it but were not visible when on the trailer so i got screwed >:(. Anyways, they appear to be from a rock hit and look to have been repaired with some kind of epoxy but they have came back. I have searched and looked at how you guys have repaired some of the cracks in the bottom of your hulls. I have never done any fiberglass work before. The bottom of the boat seems somewhat flexible around the area where the crack is, now i hope its just because of the break and not because the wood is delaminating or rotted. My main question before i get started is what kind of supplies will i need as far as fillers, resin etc? And should i use woven cloth, tape or mat to do the repair as i want the strongest fix possible. I also planned on adding some braces in the area under the floor in the boat. The floor and the rest of the boat seems very solid, It appears to be 1/4 stringer boat, but i will find out for sure when i cut out the floor. I will try and get some more pictures later on this week, but for now i am just asking as to what kind of supplies i will need to buy to do this correctly.
Thanks
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Oh and i also wanted to know if the floor is in as good of shape as i think, what would be the best thing to coat the new wood with and secure it to the old floor with? And one last question is where would be the best place to buy the supplies?
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First and foremost, the crack will need to be ground out as much as possible, enough to where the fiberglass resin (or epoxy) and mat actually touch when applied from both sides.
The next thing you need to decide is what materials to use, it boils down to what you're comfortable with and what's readily available to you in your area. I really like West Systems, no smell, several choices of viscosities and curing times, and clean up is a piece of cheese (MEK).
Take your time and ask a lot of questions, the only stupid question is one not asked. ;)
Prep. is the name of the game, you will probably spend 80% of the time of the repair on prep so don't get in a hurry to apply the glass.
Good Luck!
GT
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Here is one that proppy did. Its full of good info ;)
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=1284.0
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I have read his thread over a few times studying what he did to repair the crack, I am mosty just unsure on what all materials i will need to do it? Is there a kit that will have everything that i need to do the job as far as fillers etc?
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You're not going to need any fillers, just plenty of glass mat to build back up what you had to grind out.
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a lot of the pics are gone ??? but you will get the idea
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=1277.0 (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=1277.0)
i just did a crack on the bottom and it was about 10 inches long and an inch wide when i was done grinding. i put masking tape on the outside of the hole so the glass didn't fall through. then i sanded with 24 grit on the inside for about 18 inches all the way around the crack. i used west systems epoxy resin (pricey :o) your boat is probably polyester so the epoxy isn't necessary but great stuff and i like it.
any way i went with 3 layers of mat then 3 of cloth staggering them first left then right and so on. get some latex gloves and put more than one set on so you can peel them off as needed. wet out the hull lay your first layer of mat then with little paint rollers roll all the air out. lay the next one and repeat. then start with the cloth, i like to lay it on then use the roller and my hand to get all the air out and finally use a bondo spreader to get all the excess resin out. resin is pretty, not strong. GET ALL THE EXCESS OUT
oh i forgot cut all fiberglass before you mix any resin, you dont want to be in a rush when you start with the resin. (ask me how i know :-[ :banghead:)
hope this helps ralph
disclaimer, this is just how i did it and it worked for me. your results may differ
lots of good info here as well
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=west+system+fiberglass+repair&search_type=&aq=2&oq=west+syste (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=west+system+fiberglass+repair&search_type=&aq=2&oq=west+syste)
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Ok, few more questions. What would be the best kind of mat to use and how much resin and hardener will i need? The area is about 30"x1/2" on both sides. Will one quart do it or should i get a half gallon? I want the highest strength mat, it looks as if the woven roving cloth is the strongest? Do i need to use more than 1 kind of mat or tape for the best strength? And i will not need any fillers if i am using mat to fill the gap, correct?
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Ok, few more questions. What would be the best kind of mat to use and how much resin and hardener will i need? The area is about 30"x1/2" on both sides. Will one quart do it or should i get a half gallon? I want the highest strength mat, it looks as if the woven roving cloth is the strongest? Do i need to use more than 1 kind of mat or tape for the best strength? And i will not need any fillers if i am using mat to fill the gap, correct?
You will probably go through a gallon, more than half of which you will sand off and throw away :banghead:
The lighter the mat, the more the layers, the more the layers, the more control on where the thickness is...Woven roving is for huge areas and a real bitch to work with. Cloth is for finish type work, IMHO stick with the mat and you wont have any issues...
GT
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Is there any difference in automotive epoxy like 3m brand as opposed to the west systems epoxy in strength and flexibility? Is there any reason i should use one instead of the other?
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Is there any difference in automotive epoxy like 3m brand as opposed to the west systems epoxy in strength and flexibility? Is there any reason i should use one instead of the other?
They say that there is a marine spec, but I think it has to do with the ultra violet (UV) reactivity, in other words the non marine stuff may yellow if left exposed to the sun, I dunno though ???
GT
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Here are a few pictures of when i got started
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe289%2F88t-toplx%2FIMG_1196.jpg&hash=a7e2939481badab395e42d3ed928072b1ddae288)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe289%2F88t-toplx%2FIMG_1199.jpg&hash=b1fdc760b1cf4af3155b9794624a39b4b1706e5f)
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I have a few more pics or i can take pics of anything else if needed. By the looks of things someone has been in there before on the left side and put some expand a foam sh*t in there. Now that i am cutting away at stuff i am thinking about just tearing the whole floor out and replacing the center stringer that looks to have been installed and not treated with anything. Only problem is that my floor is not completely flat, and my mounts or buckets for my seats seem to be glassed to the floor :banghead:
Oh and the blueish stuff seeping through one of the cracks is from a previous attempt at fixing the crack by me. I'm hoping this stuff will dry out by tomorrow and i can start grinding away at it or figure out if i wanna tear the whole dam floor out of it and start fresh, which to me seems like a good idea right now.
Thanks
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(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe289%2F88t-toplx%2FIMG_1199.jpg&hash=b1fdc760b1cf4af3155b9794624a39b4b1706e5f)
When did they start putting 4 speeds with reverse in Jet boats? :screwy:
All kidding aside, looks like you have some work ahead of you. I would probably just keep cutting crap out until you have cut out everything that is rotted and wet. Then just start over.
Good Luck!
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I figure the cutting out of the wet crap wont stop until all of it is gone :screwy: But when i'm done hopefully i wont have to do it again for the life of the boat in my possesion. Now, how do i get the glassed on seat buckets off the the floor material? Just bust it off with a chisel or try cutting it with some sort of small saw? Oh and that dam knob is stuck on there good
Thanks
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If your trying to save the seats I would probably use a "Ryoba" saw or similar (Damn, Jr High Woodshop creeps back up). It will allow you to get very close to the floor and not damage the bucket or at least minimize the damage. If you just try and force it off you will almost insure that you will damage them.
If you dont care about the seats...pry away!
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I figure the cutting out of the wet crap wont stop until all of it is gone :screwy: But when i'm done hopefully i wont have to do it again for the life of the boat in my possesion. Now, how do i get the glassed on seat buckets off the the floor material? Just bust it off with a chisel or try cutting it with some sort of small saw? Oh and that dam knob is stuck on there good
Thanks
Roto Zip or spiral saw is prolly the best, easiest and quickest, with a flexible attachment. Should be able to cut out those bases like a surgeon! Handy tool to have around the house anyway, can cut anything in any shape!
And the knob is cool, will impress the "seat covers", particularly the blonde ones! (That's the SECOND boat I've seen with the F/R lever seat mounted like that! I gotta try that on one of these things!)
Ray
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Day 2
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There was about a quart of resin holding down the rear seat bucket and i need to figure out how to get the front ones up to get the rest of the floor out so i can start fresh on the floor, and work on replacing that center stringer for good measure.
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Got some more of the floor torn up and got the front seat buckets off of the floor! They had a crapload of resin holding them down, damaged one a little but i will patch it up when i get my resin and mat. Going to tear the rest of the floor out tomorrow along with the board under the dash, not sure what its called. I noticed that there are 4 big green inflatable disc looking things under the bow, i imagine that they are for flotation, but if the boat is sinking i do not think they will do much good? Do they need to be re installed or can i throw them away? Got a list of stuff made up to order for the glass supplies. What kind of wood should i use to replace the center stringer/floor support, it looks like there is a 2x4 in there right now, and what thickness wood should i use for the floor?
Thanks
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Finally got the floor out and the center stringer is in pretty sad shape. Going to replace/reinforce the mount for the bow "eye" while i'm under there.
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Looks like you making some damn good progress. Glad to see your using the mask while doing all that work. :thumbup:
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Thanks, going to be on clean up duty tomorrow in the boat. Maybe take a break after all that for a day till the weekend. Then going to try and get the stringer out and sand down the left over fiberglass up front and around the hull where the floor was glassed in. Then start in on the cracks
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im not sure if it matters or not, but, i think i would remove the motor before i glassed a stringer in... Its bad enough that it will be on the trailer and not on 3 points. My concern is that the hull will be twisted with the extra weight in it and not relaxed.......
just thinking out loud :-\
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I am going to remove the 2 of the 4 bunks on the trailer to get at the cracks from the bottom side. There will be 2 4 foot long bunks in the rear on the outer part of the hull and the very front of the bow will be supported by the trailer. Will that be good like that? I'm sure i could hang the engine for a few hours or a day to get the new stringer in since there is not much holding it in there if its going to be a problem. Hell you guys are the experts, not me. This is my first go around with something like this
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not sure ??? maybe gt will chime in, when my stringers were done the boat was stripped and off the trailer. then supported on the left and right sides at the transom then at the bow. i was told they do it like that so the hull is relaxed
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bbfsouthwind, I totally agree with Ralph, you need to block the rear corners and block the vee area near the bow and get the bottom of the boat off the bunks, I don't think I would have cut everything loose at once, the hull could "potato chip" pretty easy. :thumbdown:
You should also make sure everything is straight when you apply the glass, you only get one chance at it. ;)
Measure three times, cut and glue once. :thumbup:
GT
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The stringer is still glassed into the hull of the boat and it is still sitting on all of the bunks on the trailer. So if i pull the engine will supporting the hull at the rear corners where the bunks are at, about 4ft long on the outer part of the hull. What do i need to do with the front of the hull? Can you draw something up or do you have any pictures of what you are talking about as far as supporting the boat? With 2 of the bunks removed it will be supported at the rear on the left and right sides so i think i just need to make a bow support?
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Crude, but to the point.
Use blocks under the corners of the trailer, I like to support the keel too, but up to the user. You can totally remove the bunks at this point and this is how I fit trailers to the boat too.
GT
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ok, The remaining bunks are in the same spot as in the photo in the rear, also there is a v shaped block on my trailer about 6' from the bow of the boat supporting it there too. So i would assume that i just need the other 2 supports on the front on both sides. I will take pictures tomorrow
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Ok, got some pics of the trailer and the bunks/supports.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe289%2F88t-toplx%2FIMG_1224.jpg&hash=a00ac6d02e92e1a68f1a13ee6ac0bd0539de398c)
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Will be removing the 2 longer center bunks to get at the cracks from the bottom
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Also i wouldnt really call the center peice a stringer, i'm pretty much going for about the same floor support design as this thread. http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=1805.100
I dont see where he stripped the boat or removed it from the trailer?
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Got some more work done today despite the 107* temperatures. Got the engine out of the hull, good news is the stringers seem very solid from what i can tell. I can't dig out any material from inside the engine mounting holes. They do have carpet over them so i will remove that later on and inspect them further. Going to remove 2 bunks off the trailer tonight if i get time
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Ok, got the center support out of the boat, all i too was a little pressure from a pry bar and i came out :o. Not good, i dont think it was supporting much of anything. Got some more grinding done on the crack on the right side of the boat and some sanding done on the floor to get some of that damn glue off of there. The right side stringer has a small crack where it meets the hull, its only a few inches long. I figure i could just grind back to good glass and re glass it in there since the wood appears good?
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe289%2F88t-toplx%2FIMG_1234.jpg&hash=0ae56d3c19e015715ad56d7165f59812d863eed5)
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Internet has been down for a few weeks, but got it almost all the way back together and back on the water for a test run. Everything went well, only one water leak from a header water line. None from the cracks though!!
Here are some pics
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