SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: Squirrel Master on January 09, 2015, 11:07:33 PM
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Ok so I've heard different things somebody said that JC bowls flow better than JG bowls but the reason why people don't want to do work on JC bowls is because you cannot do a droop or wedges and things like that to is JC the my boat rides well with my JC I just wanted detailed to go faster. What bowls flow better?
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Ok so I've heard different things somebody said that JC bowls flow better than JG bowls but the reason why people don't want to do work on JC bowls is because you cannot do a droop or wedges and things like that to is JC the my boat rides well with my JC I just wanted detailed to go faster. What bowls flow better?
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OK, here is the full skinny... I am fully prepared to have this information challenged, so don't be afraid LOL...
A JC standard unworked bowl does not flow "better" than an equally unworked, stock JG bowl. Period, end of story, never been proven.
What the consensus seems to be is, the JC bowl, with the longer vanes, can (Not does) straighten the water more effectively than a G. All that said, it basically means that the outlet water has the potential to have lest twist on the JC than the JG. Never been proven, can't find a shred of documentation.
Add to this, the JC bowl has no "transition" from the bowl to the neck down area, whereas a JG has a gasket, a flange and the nozzle adapter.
Most early Droop Snoots had a flat divider plate cast into them, this plate would straighten the water even more than a JC bowl ever could, but was believed to limit flow because of it's cumbersome shape. I still Call BS to this day, but will say maybe in some conditions.
If you really want a bowl that flows, upgrade to an American Turbine... That being said, it's not cost effective.
You could clean up either bowl and "might" notice an Ass-O-Nometer difference, but I doubt it, when you get to the bowl detailing portion of the game, the differences are tenths of a MPH. The biggest gains on a pump as far as performance are, in order of importance; Loading, if you can't get the water in, you're not getting the water out, a quality loader properly set up and a stuffer to help reduce outlet cavitation is a must..., Trim, if you cannot adjust how the hull rides in the water, the hull will never realize peak performance., Matching the impeller to engine HP, (this probably should have been first, but let's just assume you were already close).
There are several other things that determine the performance of a jet, but you said pump.... So there you go.
The next time someone says a JC outflows a JG, ask them to prove it. We have tested so many combinations over the years (granted 15+years ago) that I can tell you that what you think works, probably does not.
If and when you get a bowl detailed, spend 90% of your efforts on the outer interior surfaces, the center section is less important, I see guys spending hours getting them all purdy and stuff, but there is very little velocity in the inner areas of the bowl.
Post up some details of your current set up and I will see if there is something obvious.
GT
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79 tahiti it has a shoe a ride plate n a loader in a hydraulic place diverter I ran 71 and the pump is tired and needs a rebuild
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79 tahiti it has a shoe a ride plate n a loader in a hydraulic place diverter I ran 71 and the pump is tired and needs a rebuild
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Impeller cut and material?
Approximate HP and RPM?
Why do you say the pump is tired?
Stuffed?
How deep is the Shoe?
How deep and what loader?
GT
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I believe the imeller is a a and it is aluminum 470 horse 525 foot pounds of torque at 2800 rpm 515 lbs at 5000 rpm 71mph at 5100rpm no stuffer loader is a sport i believe has the center triangle piece if that makes sense will take pics tomorrow shoe depth idk came set like that pump is only 3 to 6inches back. And the pump is tired because it sounds like this rocks in it Brad said the wear ring is probably gone and then at the last SoCal jetboat meeting the pump started to wine faintly
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Also what bowls can I get to run with my Berkeley intake that I could still use my hydraulic place diverter so I don't have to replace that cuz I'm trying to beat Art in a race
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Also what bowls can I get to run with my Berkeley intake that I could still use my hydraulic place diverter so I don't have to replace that cuz I'm trying to beat Art in a race
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Your Place Diverter should work with virtually any Berkeley style bowl.
GT
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I have a line on a JG pump with the droop has a stuffer and just a stage 1 rebuild. Now my ride plate has adjustable arms where the top and is welded to my JC pump how am I going to Mount my ride plate to this jg pump. I think I might need mad skills for this
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Here's some pictures
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Also what about the steering? What do i do there
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I have a line on a JG pump with the droop has a stuffer and just a stage 1 rebuild. Now my ride plate has adjustable arms where the top and is welded to my JC pump how am I going to Mount my ride plate to this jg pump. I think I might need mad skills for this
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With a bulkhead bracket sandwiched between the bowl and the droop... Super simple and quite frankly, bulletproof...
Not a fan of welding crap onto the cast bowl... Not calling it wrong, just not a fan.
Do it like so....(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi20.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb204%2Frousefamily4%2FP1020311.jpg&hash=b69501e28099d1922d9bfe49e839ce3311eead26) (http://s20.photobucket.com/user/rousefamily4/media/P1020311.jpg.html)
GT
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Where do I look to buy one
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Damn I had one, just sold it to rivertards son.
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I mite have one. I'll take a look later on today. 👍👍👍
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Awsome let me know
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Oh bowl to droop is double drilled
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Heres pic
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Oh bowl to droop is double drilled
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I see a drill in your future.
GT
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Your talking about intake rt
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Heres another
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Your talking about intake rt
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No, thinking you will likely need to drill the "double holes" yourself....
GT
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Ok so tell me where?
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I thought a JG bowl has 10 bolt holes for the bowll to the droop there's more than 10 hole showing in the photo im lost
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I thought a JG bowl has 10 bolt holes for the bowll to the droop there's more than 10 hole showing in the photo im lost
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I am talking about the new bracket you don't yet have. ............
Relax lol.
GT
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Oh stupid ok lol
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I can't find it, I got some 1/4 inch aluminum and I can make you one maybe...
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Hey Glen. I have heard that a c bowl will flow more water because they have bigger more defined vains. I was told back in the day some guys used to cut the knuckle off the bowl and weld a jg ring on it for adjustability. I heard that that was the hot ticket before at bowls. However a good friend of ours says that the 8 vain c bowls detailed will run just as good as a 9 vain.
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Hey Glen. I have heard that a c bowl will flow more water because they have bigger more defined vains. I was told back in the day some guys used to cut the knuckle off the bowl and weld a jg ring on it for adjustability. I heard that that was the hot ticket before at bowls. However a good friend of ours says that the 8 vain c bowls detailed will run just as good as a 9 vain.
Like I said, it has never been proven. I have seen guys spend hours and hours converting a JC bowl to a flanged bowl and literally no advantage was realized.
Other than the veins being approximately 1 1/2" longer, the bowls are virtually identical. Not sure how anyone would ever think that more material inside a bowl would actually flow better than one with less interference.
The 9 vane bowl was an interesting innovation because of the elimination of the beat frequency that 4 (the amount of blades on an impeller) against the Berkeley bowl (8 veins) generated. It actually provided a smoother outflow because of this frequency.
Mind you that all of this was theoretical and very difficult to prove in the real world. That being said, I have owned three Agressor bowls (two different generations) and I always felt they had a better bite to them. No top speed increased, but they seemed to have more "punch" out of the hole.
I used to talk with GTH Marine at length about different techniques and it was funny how you would never really get an answer to the "how much performance gain" questions. It was always understood that it is all trial and error, mostly error.....
If someone has some documented proof that a JC will outflow a JG, I would love to see it. It simply does not exist.
GT
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Like I said, it has never been proven. I have seen guys spend hours and hours converting a JC bowl to a flanged bowl and literally no advantage was realized.
Other than the veins being approximately 1 1/2" longer, the bowls are virtually identical. Not sure how anyone would ever think that more material inside a bowl would actually flow better than one with less interference.
The 9 vane bowl was an interesting innovation because of the elimination of the beat frequency that 4 (the amount of blades on an impeller) against the Berkeley bowl (8 veins) generated. It actually provided a smoother outflow because of this frequency.
Mind you that all of this was theoretical and very difficult to prove in the real world. That being said, I have owned three Agressor bowls (two different generations) and I always felt they had a better bite to them. No top speed increased, but they seemed to have more "punch" out of the hole.
I used to talk with GTH Marine at length about different techniques and it was funny how you would never really get an answer to the "how much performance gain" questions. It was always understood that it is all trial and error, mostly error.....
If someone has some documented proof that a JC will outflow a JG, I would love to see it. It simply does not exist.
GT
Sounds like a good enough answer to me. Good job Glen. :-)