SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: GAWnCA on September 22, 2007, 10:50:15 AM
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I am wondering, is there any good reason that the diveter nozzle should have any down thrust? If so, for what purpose?
Thanks,
Greg
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Keeps the nose of the boat down.
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If I'm understanding the question correctly, pointing the diverter nozzle down helps by pointing the boat's nose down while running over wakes, making the ride a lot smoother.
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It will also help your reverse around the dock since the reverse passage way is at a better angle .
-beerjet-
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So, just how much down angle should I have? The way it's set up now, adjustment wise, I don't think there is any down and maybe a 2* up at the lowest trim handle lock. Max up movement is only 1" on the Jetovator tube. I should be able to get something better than that, shouldn't I? Thanks, Greg
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Pics ..... full up and down
-beerjet-
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Pics ..... full up and down
-beerjet-
BJ, I just might be able to do that in a few minutes.
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Here we go:
Jetovator Full Down:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FJetovator_Left_Full_Down_006_small.jpg&hash=20632a3f9bbc8ab1e7532f90f4e8f143a3d781fc)
Jetovator Full Up:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FJetovator_Left_Full_Up_007_small.jpg&hash=172dcdc65fbc3a94cb746290658e51ac552b7fce)
Actual Movement:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2Fjet_movement.gif&hash=a834991ba98f33032572e65f2855a4109c5376aa)
I'd also like to add more up angle without replacing the entire unit. Any suggestions? I do see some small modifications that Squirtcha did to his, but I don't really want to cut into the bowl nozzle.
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The way I see it . The berk nozzle already has a good reverse passage way for reverse . Thats probably why the nozzle doesnt go down too far .
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FJetovator_Left_Full_Down_006_small.jpg&hash=20632a3f9bbc8ab1e7532f90f4e8f143a3d781fc)
Up seems to look fine to me . Thats my .02
-beerjet-
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The way I see it . The berk nozzle already has a good reverse passage way for reverse . Thats probably why the nozzle doesnt go down too far .
Up seems to look fine to me . Thats my .02
-beerjet-
BJ, Any suggestions as to how I might get more UP nozzle for a better rooster tail?? Other than replacing everything and putting a Place Diverter on it?
Actual Movement:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2Fjet_movement.gif&hash=a834991ba98f33032572e65f2855a4109c5376aa)
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Beerjet has the best roost I have ever seen. Change the pump to a split bowl, add a droop with 4 degrees up and a couple of wedges. You too will be hosin down the bridge at the Avi. I dont think just changing to a place diverter will do all that much more. Just my $.02
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Beerjet has the best roost I have ever seen. Change the pump to a split bowl, add a droop with 4 degrees up and a couple of wedges. You too will be hosin down the bridge at the Avi. I dont think just changing to a place diverter will do all that much more. Just my $.02
Thanks for the advice but I'm trying to keep this Miller as original as I can. I don't need to hose down a bridge just get a little more height. Also, been told that I do need some down angle. I don't think the photos show how little, if any down angle there is.
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To me it looks like there is no down because the nozzle has the reverse passage way built in . If rivertard ever gets a new computer you can see how he did his . The only way your gonna get more altitude is to cut on it or grind some of it off . The C-bowl just doesnt give you anymore adjustment . If your not lookin to get too crazy with it , it might be the way to go . You'll be surprised how much more roost you get with a little cutting . :-\
-beerjet-
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To me it looks like there is no down because the nozzle has the reverse passage way built in . If rivertard ever gets a new computer you can see how he did his . The only way your gonna get more altitude is to cut on it or grind some of it off . The C-bowl just doesnt give you anymore adjustment . If your not lookin to get too crazy with it , it might be the way to go . You'll be surprised how much more roost you get with a little cutting . :-\
-beerjet-
So BJ, you don't think I need to worry about any more down angle?
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I dont think so . Those nozzles with the passageway facing back the way they do , do a pretty good job of forcing water backwards . I didnt design it though . Thats just my logic on the subject .
-beerjet-
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I dont think so . Those nozzles with the passageway facing back the way they do , do a pretty good job of forcing water backwards . I didnt design it though . Thats just my logic on the subject .
-beerjet-
Cool, I'll just add a small amount of up then. Thanks!
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Did some tweaking today, will upload new pics after while.
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Here we go - AFTER TWEAKING!
Jetovator Full Down:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FJetovator_Down_010_sm.jpg&hash=72cdea338ba06d7183fd4e18f18c5081d31fb950)
Jetovator Full Up:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FJetovator_Up_011_sm.jpg&hash=71ea34b1c544d715ed6ad3d096b39d049539a6fa)
Actual Movement:
BEFORE:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2Fjet_movement.gif&hash=a834991ba98f33032572e65f2855a4109c5376aa)
AFTER:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2Fjet_movement-02.gif&hash=0671e59310d7a93d1c5a9ccaec12f45247504eed)
Did a lot of cable adjusting and took off a little of the nozzle to even out what had already been done. I know, I've got to replace the broken rudder too. :D
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Greg looks like you got it dicked to me ,good job on the adjustment !! Tom
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Looks much better, still have about the same up angle but more downward travel. Good work! ;)
Rebel
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Greg looks like you got it dicked to me ,good job on the adjustment !! Tom
Thanks Tom. Have you got a good rudder in stock??? DAMN I've got to call you.
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Looks much better, still have about the same up angle but more downward travel. Good work! ;)
Rebel
Thanks Reb. I can get more up if I need to. It just means file out some more aluminum. ;D I would like to use all my pump and jetovator only find a hydraulic or electric means of moving the nozzle. That darn manual trim handle really sucks and is hard to work when all connected up. Everything is a very smooth operation until connected. I can't find the bind area though.
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Looks good Greg. You gained quite a bit of angle there. Good job
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Looks good Greg. You gained quite a bit of angle there. Good job
Thanks John. Now if I could only figure out why the trim control get's so hard to operate. Everything is loose and smooth until it's all hooked together and then that trim controller (the one you use up by your feet) gets very hard to operate. Over the winter I think I'll pull the pump apart and rebuild it.
Hey Tom, got any suggestions??
Greg
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Greg the biggest issues weve seen with that setup relate to the steer tube where it passes thru the transom adaptor (binding etc) . I could see where the leverage factor could probaly be increased slightly at the jet also what controller do you have? Tom
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Greg the biggest issues weve seen with that setup relate to the steer tube where it passes thru the transom adaptor (binding etc) . I could see where the leverage factor could probaly be increased slightly at the jet also what controller do you have? Tom
Tom, Here's what came with the boat...
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2FJetovator_Trim_Controll.jpg&hash=448f1450970def8c4b57214d5c67fe98c61867ef)
The release catch is a bugger to operate when it's all connected up and there is some pressure on it. Any suggestions?
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The release catch is a bugger to operate when it's all connected up and there is some pressure on it. Any suggestions?
Get rid of the piece of shit and give it to me .
-beerjet-
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Thanks Tom. Have you got a good rudder in stock??? DAMN I've got to call you.
If Tom doesn't have one, I've got a good used one you can have, PM me your address
Skip
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Get rid of the piece of shit and give it to me .
-beerjet-
Beerjet, with a statement like that it must be better than I think. :D
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Greg thats a "trimetric cav plate controller" ,seen them used for diverters a lot my Bahner had one (didn't like it) It may be part of your problem (awkward) ?? Tom
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Tom, Make a suggestion. It is DAMN awkward!!! :-\ Greg
Greg thats a "trimetric cav plate controller" ,seen them used for diverters a lot my Bahner had one (didn't like it) It may be part of your problem (awkward) ?? Tom
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Tom, Make a suggestion. It is DAMN awkward!!! :-\ Greg
I talked to tom and he said send the piece of shit to me . Along with that ugly ass Hallcraft gas pedal . Trust me , you dont want them . >:D
-beerjet-
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I talked to tom and he said send the piece of shit to me . Along with that ugly ass Hallcraft gas pedal . Trust me , you dont want them . >:D
-beerjet-
LMAO!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'll bet he did!! I like the gas pedal and just got it mounted where I like it. And what would you do with tis piece of shit? ???
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I just changed over to an old Trimetric controller this season. I like it alot better than the Place control. For one thing, I don't think this one will experience the wear in the notched area the Place does. I've seen them get awfully sloppy over time. Another thing is that the Trimetric is alot more compact and clean. Just my opinion.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotboatpics.com%2Fpics%2Fdata%2F500%2F3663Trimetric2-med.JPG&hash=2cda9ce5e1b8b495233acdba4f835540f5314573)
Also, do yourself a favor and ditch the rudder.
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Where did you find that mounting bracket? Maybe I should take this one apart and clean it out. I notice you have the cable running out the front instead of the back, is your cable too long? Mine seems to be.
I just changed over to an old Trimetric controller this season. I like it alot better than the Place control. For one thing, I don't think this one will experience the wear in the notched area the Place does. I've seen them get awfully sloppy over time. Another thing is that the Trimetric is alot more compact and clean. Just my opinion.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotboatpics.com%2Fpics%2Fdata%2F500%2F3663Trimetric2-med.JPG&hash=2cda9ce5e1b8b495233acdba4f835540f5314573)
Also, do yourself a favor and ditch the rudder.
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I fabbed the bracket myself. I took the controller apart and rebuilt it before I installed it . I have it reversed because it seems to make more sense to pull the handle back for 'up' when I'm hammering the throttle. I just used a longer cable and looped it around underneath the deck before running it to the rear of the boat.
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I fabbed the bracket myself. I took the controller apart and rebuilt it before I installed it . I have it reversed because it seems to make more sense to pull the handle back for 'up' when I'm hammering the throttle. I just used a longer cable and looped it around underneath the deck before running it to the rear of the boat.
Now that sounds like a plan. Might be that a new cable would help matters. How did you rebuild it and where did you find parts? Hmmm, You sound as if you might be a pilot, "pull back to go up!" ;D
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The rebuild consisted of a new handle pivot pin, bushed and re-bored handle, new cable pivot and cable mount, a fresh coat of paint(save for area of label, which was masked off for preservation) and re-polish.
It's like brand new.
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The rebuild consisted of a new handle pivot pin, bushed and re-bored handle, new cable pivot and cable mount, a fresh coat of paint(save for area of label, which was masked off for preservation) and re-polish.
It's like brand new.
Did you make your own parts or is there a place to buy them? I don't have a machine shop. :)
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Made them myself. I do have a machine shop at my disposal... ;D
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Made them myself. I do have a machine shop at my disposal... ;D
Must be nice... Well, then maybe I'll just have to look for another solution. Darn!! :'(
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Send it over. For a fee, I can make you a custom mount and rebuild yours too! ;D
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Send it over. For a fee, I can make you a custom mount and rebuild yours too! ;D
Let me get back to you on this one. 8)
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John wasn't ditzin the controller just found it "awkward' to operate in the Bahner at Speed never thought about the bracket to "rearrange' the positioning nice job on your bracket "machine man" ;) !! BTW I'm a huge fan of the "quality and work put in these old parts "ya just don't see that stuff nowadays' (sorry about the blur wrong Cam settings ,ps ,note the "similarities' in the deaver vs the trimetric :) :) Tom
btw "Ro" found you a black anchor bungee !!,Its on the way !!!
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2FMisc%2FDSC07260.jpg&hash=962c90776c07acf6c033ac8ca364c6906a68f673)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2FMisc%2FDSC07259.jpg&hash=b10244b591173c5276cf47272d3b38830237eb55)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2FMisc%2FDSC07258.jpg&hash=dcf223a9c64821a3a876935dcdbc287bcc810bef)
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Maybe I'll open this one up tomorrow and see how much gum is inside. Could be a good cleaning and maybe a different spring will make it work just fine.
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I like the gas pedal and just got it mounted where I like it. And what would you do with tis piece of shit? ???
I'm actually lookin for a hallcraft pedal so I can do away with the lever throttle. Hallett used alot of hallcraft .
-beerjet-
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I'm actually lookin for a hallcraft pedal so I can do away with the lever throttle. Hallett used alot of hallcraft .
-beerjet-
I like it because your foot isn't trapped!
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Next question.... How do I measure the cable length I need? It seems to me I've got enough cable for the trim adjustment for a 25 foot boat. Logic tells me that the shortest cable run would have less binding. This run would be down the outside of the stringer straight back to the pump with maybe a foot or so for the slight curves needed to exit the hull.
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if you need some machining and bushings-ill do it for the hell of it=got nothing to at work anyway
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if you need some machining and bushings-ill do it for the hell of it=got nothing to at work anyway
Thanks for the offer and I'll keep this in mind. I'll open it up today and see what I have and if there really is a problem. I'm thinking that this extra long cable could be part of the problem. Greg
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Well, I've solved the issue with the Jetovator - SELL IT and buy a Place Diverter with Hydraulic trim. Guess I'll try E-Bay to unload the Jetovator and trim controller. Unless someone here wants to make an offer or knows someone who wants one.
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Well, I've ran out of space that CommieCa$t allows me so I've got to remove the animations or make them smaller. In the mean time I need to know how to remove this nut in the "C" bowl.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgregaw.home.comcast.net%2Fremoval_ss.jpg&hash=ffcab9ec56320becb049ebc72e1974ba8ab7bd61)
HELP!!! ???
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The only reason you'd need to remove that nut is to replace the bearings and/or seal. It has standard rotation threads (righty tighty/lefty loosey ;D ).
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The only reason you'd need to remove that nut is to replace the bearings and/or seal. It has standard rotation threads (righty tighty/lefty loosey ;D ).
Well, Hotrod, that's just what I need to do. Replace parts. Is a special tool needed? Thanks.
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Is a special tool needed?
Either a big ass screwdriver or a small chisel and hammer.
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Greg, I was online this morning and found a nicely detailed pic of what to grind and how much to grind on your Jet-O-Vator in order to get the maximum up and down out of it, I will try to find that page again, I closed it out before I bookmarked it
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Greg, I was online this morning and found a nicely detailed pic of what to grind and how much to grind on your Jet-O-Vator in order to get the maximum up and down out of it, I will try to find that page again, I closed it out before I bookmarked it
Thanks Luckie, but I'm going to replace it with a Place Diverter.
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If you find it I would like to see it for mine ;D
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If you find it I would like to see it for mine ;D
Here's a modification that I know of.
http://www.homestead.com/jetboat/files/upstop.JPG
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Why are you going to change out to a Place?
Some of the tallest and longest roosts I have seen were achieved with modified Jetovators.
To get that bowl plug out in the past, I've used a piece of 3/16" flat bar and a large crescent wrench.
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Why are you going to change out to a Place?
Some of the tallest and longest roosts I have seen were achieved with modified Jetovators.
To get away from the manual control. It's been hard to get information on the modifications needed. The control handle is awkward for me to use.
To get that bowl plug out in the past, I've used a piece of 3/16" flat bar and a large crescent wrench.
Thanks, I'll give that a shot today. Have to replace the bushings and seal.
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I see.
There are electric jetovator controls. Finding one may be difficult though. If I remember right, they have a small motor and a rack and pinion system that connects to the cable. If you could find one, it may be a less expensive alternative than buying a new Place hydraulic system.
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I see.
There are electric jetovator controls. Finding one may be difficult though. If I remember right, they have a small motor and a rack and pinion system that connects to the cable. If you could find one, it may be a less expensive alternative than buying a new Place hydraulic system.
Well I already ordered the PD and it should be here this afternoon. Now to clean up the bowl and the transom housing and the get them repainted. Should look like new. I saw one of those electric systems but was told that it wouldn't work with the jetovater because fo the short throw. :-\
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Hydraulic = my biggest mistake with my old boat. I missed the manual within the first 5 minutes of driving. The hydraulic worked just fine. I just like knowing where the nozzle is placed without having to look back. That and the Hydro is a hell of a lot slower.
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Hydraulic = my biggest mistake with my old boat. I missed the manual within the first 5 minutes of driving. The hydraulic worked just fine. I just like knowing where the nozzle is placed without having to look back. That and the Hydro is a hell of a lot slower.
I think you can get a trim gauge that tells you where you are. Hell, I'm getting a lot older and slower too so it'll be fine. The old back ain't what it use to be either. :D