SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: SSpeeDEMONSS on August 19, 2015, 04:12:07 PM
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How do I fix this? I certainly don't want to have to notch the droop. Is there a different plug I can get that isn't pointed?
Garrett
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Sure can... Call a few places like performance boats or cyclone marine for a used one first. I sold a modified split C with a shallow plug in it. Some have removed the divider in that style droop. The one you want has a large slot across the top where the pointed area is on yours. Looks like a place to put a large flat head screw driver.
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My buddy called Tim Place, he said get the shorter nut or notch it. Looks like it's getting notched.
Garrett
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If you cut the plastic tip off you'll have a big hole an the oil will come out there.
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No, the divider in the droop. I already checked my other plug and it's hollow. Not going to dump all this brand new oil out. I will just notch the divider. At least it will never be seen.
Garrett
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This is the style plug you want... call around or post a wtb this style plug.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi897.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac178%2F2ndlight%2Fshoe%2520install%2Fend%2520cap_zps2dnigixv.jpg&hash=5599f4e8d14b36a4c68a49518e36a775145c081f)
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I just checked my spare aggressor 9 aluminum plug with zerk to a berk bowl... fits. Someone has a used one for ya.
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-15603-bowl-plug-w-zert-o-ring.aspx (http://www.cpperformance.com/p-15603-bowl-plug-w-zert-o-ring.aspx)
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Just cut the divider, it will be fine.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
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Divider already cut. Going to get some longer bolts then it's going on. Tomorrow is coming up quick. Thanks for the help guys, couldn't do it without the info I get on here
Garrett
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Divider already cut. Going to get some longer bolts then it's going on. Tomorrow is coming up quick. Thanks for the help guys, couldn't do it without the info I get on here
Garrett
No bolts. It should be studded with stainless threaded rod.
JMO
GT
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Well they're stainless bolts, not good enough? I have some stainless studs that were on there but figured I would get new ones
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I run ss bolts with allen head on my snoot with 2* wedge. If you plan on removing it alot then studs are the better choice.
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No bolts. It should be studded with stainless threaded rod.
JMO
GT
x2
Sent from McIntyre park
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Well they're stainless bolts, not good enough? I have some stainless studs that were on there but figured I would get new ones
A stud is several times stronger than a through bolt. FYI
GT
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I'm going to try to get some tomorrow morning. May have to make a run to mcmaster. Not sure where else has it.
Garrett
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McFadden Dale Hardware Anaheim 91/57
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McFadden Dale Hardware Anaheim 91/57
Yup they have tons of stainless steel hardware!!!
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A stud is several times stronger than a through bolt. FYI
GT
True, but is there a HP point were studs would be nessecary? Would the bolts be good for what he's got?
Just curious for conversation's sake.
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True, but is there a HP point were studs would be nessecary? Would the bolts be good for what he's got?
Just curious for conversation's sake.
The problem with the bolt is that there is a lot of angular strain on the threads.
When using a stud, you can high strength Thread Lock the threads in the bowl and take it on and of without really causing and wear and tear on the threads.
If I was to say it's ok to bolt it, the holes on the pump bowl would have to be Time-Serted or Heli-Coiled before hand. This makes for a hardened surface for the bolt to go through and not soft cast aluminum.
Using studs also allows for the use of wedges, you simply cannot (should not) do that with a bolt. The chances of ripping out the threads is nearly certain.
I hope this at least explains where I'm coming from.
GT
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It will get studs when I get home. Got a bolt kit from Place for the time being.
Garrett
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The problem with the bolt is that there is a lot of angular strain on the threads.
When using a stud, you can high strength Thread Lock the threads in the bowl and take it on and of without really causing and wear and tear on the threads.
If I was to say it's ok to bolt it, the holes on the pump bowl would have to be Time-Serted or Heli-Coiled before hand. This makes for a hardened surface for the bolt to go through and not soft cast aluminum.
Using studs also allows for the use of wedges, you simply cannot (should not) do that with a bolt. The chances of ripping out the threads is nearly certain.
I hope this at least explains where I'm coming from.
GT
Great explaination. :thumbup:
I didn't think about the wear on the inside threads of the bowl.
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There is a ton of great information and opinions on here, I too am a fan of studs for added strength, but only really when needed. Every fastener on my boat is ARP stainless, but for the droop to the bowl I’m using ARP stainless bolts and they hold just fine, and I’m also using a 2* wedge, just have to pay attention to bolt length. I’m producing 550 HP and a decent amount of pump work done and my boat gets busy pretty quick for what it is, but it’s not a full blown race boat that will do over 100 MPH and see outrageous bowl pressures. If I were in that category, I too would use studs, but for someone that has a decent running slightly modified jet boat in my opinion it isn’t necessary. Just my 2 cents worth, but do what makes you happy, extra strength really isn't a bad thing.
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On my 3rd season like this with a built BBF... had it this way on my other set up to.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi897.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac178%2F2ndlight%2Fymw1_zpsbba16f0b.jpg&hash=2471c60b1c950afb372c4c7157621cad2609123d)
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The strength difference in bolts to studs is not a concern in this application for non-racing use, the galling of threads if removed and installed repeatedly is absolutely true. That being said my slow mini day cruiser has studs and that's ok with me
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One thing you guys have to realize. In am from the whitewater world. I have been known to thump the bottom with the nozzle.
What I lack in driving skills, I make up for in bulletproofness. Lmao
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Good point, I wasn't considering that application haha
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What everything really boils down to with choices is application or just sometimes personal preference. So when looking at the real application if it’s going to see big power, pressures and speed, or what GT describes as far as use, then studs would be the better choice. But most lake and river cruisers won’t fall into that category. Kind of the same purpose with head bolts vs studs, removal often or holding big cylinder pressures, we would use studs, stocker to slightly modified and stay together, we would use good bolts. So one just has to know where you stand and what category your equipment really falls into, but I too have been known on many occasions with projects to go a bit overkill for the added strength, even though it wasn’t needed, it was just my personal preference. :screwy:...I think I may have a slight touch of OCD...
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What everything really boils down to with choices is application or just sometimes personal preference. So when looking at the real application if it’s going to see big power, pressures and speed, or what GT describes as far as use, then studs would be the better choice. But most lake and river cruisers won’t fall into that category. Kind of the same purpose with head bolts vs studs, removal often or holding big cylinder pressures, we would use studs, stocker to slightly modified and stay together, we would use good bolts. So one just has to know where you stand and what category your equipment really falls into, but I too have been known on many occasions with projects to go a bit overkill for the added strength, even though it wasn’t needed, it was just my personal preference. :screwy:...I think I may have a slight touch of OCD...
The way I see it, overkill is barely adequate.
On most things.
Unless the bolts are installed dead nuts straight or less then 1-1/2" long, it gets studded.
Unit only need to have a problem one time to change the way you think. LOL.
GT
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Can I get stainless all thread and cut it to length or do I need to get the expensive stainless ARP?
Garrett
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Can I get stainless all thread and cut it to length or do I need to get the expensive stainless ARP?
Garrett
All thread is fine
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All thread is fine
What's the likelihood that I will want/need a wedge? Should I leave the studs long enough in case I do?
Garrett
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What's the likelihood that I will want/need a wedge? Should I leave the studs long enough in case I do?
Garrett
I would most defiantly plan on a wedge.
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I would most defiantly plan on a wedge.
Ok, I'll leave an extra 2 inches.
Garrett
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Ok, I'll leave an extra 2 inches.
Garrett
a extra inch would be more then enough.
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a extra inch would be more then enough.
Got it. Thank you.
Garrett
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Got it. Thank you.
Garrett
Maybe this will help you as well.
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Those seem pretty long, but I can match that.
Garrett
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Those seem pretty long, but I can match that.
Garrett
They don't have to be that long just the way I have mine. I was just sending the picture for the wedge so you have a idea of what you will need.
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They don't have to be that long just the way I have mine. I was just sending the picture for the wedge so you have a idea of what you will need.
oh, makes sense. well better too long than too short.
Garrett
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Better?
Garrett
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Looks good should work fine.
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
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Better?
Garrett
SCHWING!!!!
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Looks good should work fine.
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
SCHWING!!!!
Thank you both for your help. And whoever told me about the gold mine that is McFadden Dale, thank you! I will be going back there for sure. They had 2" and 3" studs also, just not enough.
Garrett
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What do you guys secure the nuts with?
Loc Tite, nylon lock nuts, just lock washers ...?
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What do you guys secure the nuts with?
Loc Tite, nylon lock nuts, just lock washers ...?
Red Loctite (262) the studs in the bowl and either lock nuts or blue Loctite (242) the nuts.
JMHO
GT
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Maybe this will help you as well.
WOW, you needed more downward angle? i see your wedge is set up to add more down thrust than up....
interesting...
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WOW, you needed more downward angle? i see your wedge is set up to add more down thrust than up....
interesting...
I'm sure the intention was to lower the thrust angle. Then the diverter is trimmed up to compensate. Of course you lose the huge tail but... Might be faster. I'm thinking of trying it myself.
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I'm sure the intention was to lower the thrust angle. Then the diverter is trimmed up to compensate. Of course you lose the huge tail but... Might be faster. I'm thinking of trying it myself.
. Our diverters are locked out they can only go up and down so far. I have 4 degrees down and 3 degrees up movement in mine. When you install a droop they have roughly 3 degrees up in them so we wedge down. We have a 6' roost max on a big nos pass if things are right. It's all about lift and attitude of the boat nothing else. The last thing I want to do is fly the nose in my boat. We do need them aired out but flat not nose high. The less degrees we use the better as we get from dig to aired out quicker
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I'm sure the intention was to lower the thrust angle. Then the diverter is trimmed up to compensate. Of course you lose the huge tail but... Might be faster. I'm thinking of trying it myself.
wedges serve multiple purposes, Igained a couple mph with the wedge and I don't use a stop up or down because I'm not much of a racer and I just have a stock motor. My only purpose was to get the boat out of the water a little more, reducing drag and improve the ride. Also It still throws a nice little roost with a down wedge.
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Copy that gents.
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Here's probably a stupid question, how does the droop fit over the studs with a wedge? Mine is pretty tight on there as is and doesn't seem like it would fit at that angle.
Garrett
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Here's probably a stupid question, how does the droop fit over the studs with a wedge? Mine is pretty tight on there as is and doesn't seem like it would fit at that angle.
Garrett
This is the main reason for the studs. They will have to be somewhat rolled to meet the flange of the droop, is difficult to do that with bolts without jacking the threads in the bowl.
The holes in the wedges are typically either drilled straight one way, or oversized to make fitment easier.
GT
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This is the main reason for the studs. They will have to be somewhat rolled to meet the flange of the droop, is difficult to do that with bolts without jacking the threads in the bowl.
The holes in the wedges are typically either drilled straight one way, or oversized to make fitment easier.
GT
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that makes sense. guess i will find out first hand.
Garrett