SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: SLCKREG on January 15, 2008, 07:26:19 PM
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just curious, wear ring? bushings? bearings? i'm not talkin over 20 or 30 sec? somebody should tell paul bassett that you can't run your boat on the ramp when you pull it out like he recomends to dry out ot headers.
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Heat between the wear ring and impeller when ran too long dry.
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so how long is too long. it's a new rebuild i realize that makes it worse/tighter i have a hose therfore water. i just want to hear it before i tow it to the lake, if spraying water up its ass would help i'll do that.
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Ralph Brunt can answer your question!
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i will never run my pump dry again. i used to warm up my race boat before i raced and about mid way through the season we were getting ready to go to that avi deal. i started it up and all the sudden it screamed like a bearing and locked up my motor. i could crank my motor over but when it fired it screamed again and locked it up. i rushed it over to jim brock, he opened the pump and said you were running it dry. i hung my head in shame :-[ and admitted to my stupidity. granted my pump was set up tighter than most because it was for racing, but i have learned my lesson and will never dry fire my pump again. not even on the ramp........
edit: let me say this was with an aluminum impeller and may not be so bad with s.s or bronze, but i will not do it again
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Ralph Brunt can answer your question!
you beat me too it ;)
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here are some pics !
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here are some pics !
i couldn't have said it better ;)
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You could always get a jet-a-way and not worry about it. $$$$
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so how long is too long. it's a new rebuild i realize that makes it worse/tighter i have a hose therfore water. i just want to hear it before i tow it to the lake, if spraying water up its ass would help i'll do that.
Don't run it dry at all; simply hook up a hose with a splitter or 2 hoses:
I'd never run without water, however, can run all you want if running water in it:
If you run water thru the pump, there is NO PROBLEM running it out of water.
I used flytime's idea: put a hose splitter on the hose; one hose from splitter has male connector, the other has female; disconnect interior hoses then connect to splitter hoses; turn pump water on before turning engine; turn engine water on after engine starts.
I read much on this; many say never do it, BUT, flytime told me he checked with Berkeley directly, then I emailed Berkeley and got a quick reply that it is NO PROBLEM if running water in the pump.
In fact, the Berkeley guy said run a hose up the nozzle; but it's better to disconnect the inside hose and run it directly into the pump (connecting another hose to run thru the engine to cool).
http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=2493.msg33651#msg33651
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Tim,
I wouldn't say there is "NO PROBLEM" doing that....yes, its better then running it dry, but I personally still wouldn't recommend it.
Also, from what I have heard, the people who run Berkley now don't know crap about their own product. They cant answer basic technical questions about the pump. So based on that, I still wouldn't take what they say as fact. People like Tom at JBP, Jack at MPD, Jim at Cyclone, Shoemaker at GS Marine, etc know much more about Berkley then Berkeley themselves know. So if they say "dont do it unless you have to" ...I wouldnt say it's "no problem".
-Brad
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Tim,
I wouldn't say there is "NO PROBLEM" doing that....yes, its better then running it dry, but I personally still wouldn't recommend it.
Also, from what I have heard, the people who run Berkley now don't know crap about their own product. They cant answer basic technical questions about the pump. So based on that, I still wouldn't take what they say as fact. People like Tom at JBP, Jack at MPD, Jim at Cyclone, Shoemaker at GS Marine, etc know much more about Berkley then Berkeley themselves know. So if they say "dont do it unless you have to" ...I wouldnt say it's "no problem".
-Brad
Point taken; those folks surely know more than me; I still feel that as long as water is running thru the pump, just as it would be on the water, it should be fine; but I'll be sure to remove the 'no problem' if I post this again and make it an IMO.
Now go watch that gas tank ;D
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Thanks for the input guys. A jetaway would be nice.
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You could always get a jet-a-way and not worry about it. $$$$
dont have the room even with the setback pump.
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dont have the room even with the setback pump.
I'm saving the guy money already.
Tim,
I wouldn't say there is "NO PROBLEM" doing that....yes, its better then running it dry, but I personally still wouldn't recommend it.
Also, from what I have heard, the people who run Berkley now don't know crap about their own product. They cant answer basic technical questions about the pump. So based on that, I still wouldn't take what they say as fact. People like Tom at JBP, Jack at MPD, Jim at Cyclone, Shoemaker at GS Marine, etc know much more about Berkley then Berkeley themselves know. So if they say "dont do it unless you have to" ...I wouldnt say it's "no problem".
-Brad
I'm glad you posted that Brad. I do have a tendancy(sp) to run my boat in the driveway for tuning purposes and other sh!t. I would imagine that bowl pressure does play some part in keeping things lubed. The only thing good about f'ing up my pump is then I would have an excuse to have Tom rebuild it for me and have it like new again. ;D
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If only I had a clutch 8)
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why you shouldn't run it dry....when you tow your boat down the road, gravel, dirt and lots of other junk makes its way into the pump, right into the impeller. now start the engine up without water to flush out the wear ring surface and the dirt gets ground up, ruining the surface of the wear ring and the impeller. Will it stop your boat from running? probably not. Will it take a great performing pump and make it not work as well? definately.
my old man ran his berk dry for 30 years. his holeshot sucked. nuff said.
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As a general rule of thumb, 2 minutes MAX with the hose. Don't do it often. Asking Berkeley "proper" is worth nothing, they've been bought out something like 3 times since their beginnings. They have ZERO original employees, and ZERO information aside from books and charts left behind. They don't even manufacture, let alone detail their own parts anymore. They send most of their work to a little shop in Mexico, kinda like Basset Headers....
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i was told if you run your boat at home to also put the hose up the intake.I dont no if that helps the pump at all maybe some one know different?
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any additional water is helpful.
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Thanks guys. I'm rewiring, new intake,new plumbing ect. I just wan't to make sure I don't have any issues before I tow it to the lake. I guess I'll stop running it for 30 sec or so everytime I pull it out as per Paul B.
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Just wait til you get home. unless you're running in salt water your internals wont corrode THAT fast! Well I don't know about elsinore/ming water though... looks kinda nasty to me. BTW its supposed to rain for a week straight starting tomorrow.
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all this talk and its only 4 bolts that connects the pump and motor. ;) youre all sooo lazy!
j/k i know its a pain in the ass to remove drivelines.
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I only woke up to 8" of snow today, but my sister has 2 feet and it's still going here in SLC. Thats my problem all the water here is slightly firm. ;D
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It's always a cool feeling when you can walk on water...
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all this talk and its only 4 bolts that connects the pump and motor. ;) youre all sooo lazy!
j/k i know its a pain in the ass to remove drivelines.
after reading this thread, i pulled the driveline out of the boat till its ready to hit the water, that way no chances----thanks for all the good advice as usual
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all this talk and its only 4 bolts that connects the pump and motor. ;) youre all sooo lazy!
j/k i know its a pain in the ass to remove drivelines.
I do it almost everytime I pulled my boat out of the water at the races . It is a pain but I cant afford a new SS impellor .
-beerjet-
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Sorry guys, but the only person who got this answer right was Cyclone IMO. Nobody else touched on WHY you shouldn't do it but him.
If there is no debris between the wear ring and impeller I would not be afraid to run my pump dry. Problem is, to make sure there is no debris you need to pull the bowl & impeller and rinse it out. To put the bowl back on properly the pump should not be in the boat, otherwise you're taking a small gamble "hoping" that you have the bowl registered properly on the suction housing.
If you've never pulled your bowl & impeller after traveling even a short distance, try it sometime. You will be amazed at what you find between your wear ring & impeller. Whenever launching Always drop the boat in the water deep enough to submerge the pump, pull it out to wash all the debris out, and then you can put it back in and take it off the trailer.
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Don't forget, you really should try not to run your pump in less than chest deep water. At idle the pump is capable of sucking debris from 4-5 ft down.
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Don't forget, you really should try not to run your pump in less than chest deep water. At idle the pump is capable of sucking debris from 4-5 ft down.
This from a prop guy >:D
You gotta be missin' your jet.
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Whenever launching Always drop the boat in the water deep enough to submerge the pump, pull it out to wash all the debris out, and then you can put it back in and take it off the trailer.
Yet another religious practice I have .
-beerjet-
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Tim,
I wouldn't say there is "NO PROBLEM" doing that....yes, its better then running it dry, but I personally still wouldn't recommend it.
Also, from what I have heard, the people who run Berkley now don't know crap about their own product. They cant answer basic technical questions about the pump. So based on that, I still wouldn't take what they say as fact. People like Tom at JBP, Jack at MPD, Jim at Cyclone, Shoemaker at GS Marine, etc know much more about Berkley then Berkeley themselves know. So if they say "dont do it unless you have to" ...I wouldnt say it's "no problem".
-Brad
Brad,
Quite a statement about Berkeley have you had actual dealings with them? What "Bad" information were you provided? While all of the folks you mentioned are excellent at their craft. I am surprised at your point of view you must have some substantiated back ground for the claim?
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Brad,
Quite a statement about Berkeley have you had actual dealings with them? What "Bad" information were you provided? While all of the folks you mentioned are excellent at their craft. I am surprised at your point of view you must have some substantiated back ground for the claim?
so are you saying we CAN run the pump with no water ???
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I called Berkeley about 6 months ago when someone stole everything off the back of my pump. (Droop,diverter). The guy I talked to was very helpful for sure. He sounded a little busy and in a hurry but I got what I needed from him for info and part#'s. It really depends on who picks up the phone for sure. I just had to let a good friend go from my small shop cause he was so "dry". I wish big companies realized what damage a shortened "I don't seem to have the time or care" phone attitude can do to them or cost them sometimes.
Will it put them out of business?? Usually not.
Will we call other manufactures and be more ready with our Credit and Debit cards to order there product even if it is a few bucks more? Sure
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Well I can tell you now CPP has somehow managed to dissuade me of their "premium" service ALL within SEVEN POSTS! What an accomplishment. The best way to attract customers on one of the premier boating forums is definitely to put down your customers! Yet another great performance on behalf of CPP. Thank you guys so much for your continued support of our cause. BTW what useful info did you offer within that post other than the fact that you hate your customers and don't respect their points-of-view or experiences?
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So when Paul bassett told me I should run my motor/pump on the ramp every time I pull her out(to get the headers dry) he was tellin the truth? :sly:
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... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!
::)
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So when Paul bassett told me I should run my motor/pump on the ramp every time I pull her out(to get the headers dry) he was tellin the truth? :sly:
i would say he is worried about his headers and not your pump
that being said, i think its more a matter of preference and as i stated i have had a bad experience with running mine dry. i see the other guys at the races doing it with no probs, i'm just not that lucky :-\
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it's not the sand in the pump that ruins it,that would take time, the alum impeller expands with heat and tight clearence it will start to gaul. and like a snowball rolling down a mountain it just gets bigger and bigger tell the impeller is ruined, a stainless won't expand like the alum impeller but it still is not good to run dry, balance off? to much run out on the shaft?there is no load on the impeller out of the water and it go where it wants to when you rev it.
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it's not the sand in the pump that ruins it,that would take time, the alum impeller expands with heat and tight clearence it will start to gaul. and like a snowball rolling down a mountain it just gets bigger and bigger tell the impeller is ruined, a stainless won't expand like the alum impeller but it still is not good to run dry, balance off? to much run out on the shaft?there is no load on the impeller out of the water and it go where it wants to when you rev it.
this is the only professional opinion on this that matters to me
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so why isn't there a clutch or disconnect available?
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isn't that what a jet a way is for ???
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so why isn't there a clutch or disconnect available?
There are disconnects available, pricey pieces. The jetaway's secondary purpose is as a disconnect. I can't remember the other disconnect available right now.
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Anyone have a link to a jetaway? Google surprisingly isn't turning up anything.
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Try www.hi-techperformance.com
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or here
www.jetboatperformance.com/index.php%3fp=jetaway