SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: BlackSheep on January 31, 2019, 09:30:32 PM

Title: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on January 31, 2019, 09:30:32 PM

I have a new 460 going in my 1976 Rogers. Since the existing engine is out now might be a good time to rebuild the Berkely 12 JC-A pump? It's been previously rebuilt but I don't know exactly when. The packing is not leaking. the front bearing has no play, no perceived unusual vibration. The boat ran with ease to 80mph no performance problems. I have been told that you would hear a "Growling" noise if the front bearing is bad. With the headers, there is no way one could hear anything other than the motor/exhaust. I watched a U-Tube video that indicates the pump can be removed out the back with the engine installed, although the local boat repair shop says the motor needs to be out. I'm past buried in the full roller, forged everything, new down to the ignition wouldn't mind waiting until next winter for the pump but; Since it's out now anyway just wondering; Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: FordLover on January 31, 2019, 10:18:52 PM

Before we can tell you great advice we will need to see pics of said boat with bbf before we can proceed. Thanks

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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: Flusher on February 01, 2019, 03:11:47 AM

Those 'while its apart...' things add up quickly and kill your budget.

You can pull the jet with the engine in the boat.  A 3-point mount needs to be supported in the rear with a cherry picker or hoist.

Since you know the history of the jet, I would be tempted to just run it.

I would suggest pulling the bearing cap off the front of the suction to inspect the thrust bearing.  Check it for corrosion and pitting.  Hopefully you have been keeping the bowl bushings oiled.

The impeller needs to come off to measure the wear ring clearance and inspect the bowl and impeller vanes.

Good luck,

Joe

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: 08chevyguy on February 01, 2019, 03:37:45 AM

Quote from: FordLover on January 31, 2019, 10:18:52 PM

Before we can tell you great advice we will need to see pics of said boat with bbf before we can proceed. Thanks

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Lol

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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: bobjthomson on February 01, 2019, 05:27:13 AM

First of all ur packing should be weeping lol as all Berkeley pumps do , and I say run the pump as is and do the rebuild next season . And pls send pics of ur sled


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on February 01, 2019, 11:42:35 AM

Appreciate all the suggestions, as this is my first pump boat. My first "Black Sheep" was a Schiada Flat with a V-Drive. One knew when they needed to be rebuilt, lol. I have always lubed the pump however I have had the boat for less than a year and have no idea what the previous owners did for maintenance.
I would really like to ask a few questions from the person who did the original rebuilt, it sure looks like he must have been into "Show" than much actual use. I mean who paints the paddle in "Shulls" lays up aftermarket "Carbon Fiber" simulation in the bottom. It really was done very nicely, what attracted me in the first place.
Let me see if I can post some pictures...

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: bobjthomson on February 01, 2019, 12:07:10 PM

Very clean brother


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: 461 bahner on February 01, 2019, 03:02:14 PM

Very clean boat definitely a keeper.


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: 08chevyguy on February 01, 2019, 03:22:54 PM

Gorgeous boat! I think I remember this boat if I'm not mistaken cause I was in love with it lol. Doesn't your boat have an all polished pump with a drop and a ride plate on it?

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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: 75 Southwind on February 01, 2019, 08:26:13 PM

bad ass boat my friend, take good care of her


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: Roadrunner on February 01, 2019, 09:11:36 PM

Holy Smokes!!! that boat is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on February 04, 2019, 08:56:15 PM

Quote from: 08chevyguy on February 01, 2019, 03:22:54 PM

Gorgeous boat! I think I remember this boat if I'm not mistaken cause I was in love with it lol. Doesn't your boat have an all polished pump with a drop and a ride plate on it?

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Yes, it does have a polished pump, I appreciate the compliments I love this machine. I believe I'm going to install the motor without rebuilding the pump this year.

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: mash on it on March 01, 2019, 08:30:17 AM

First, I would check the leading edge of the impeller for damage.

Easy to check the front to rear tolerance at the wear ring. If its good, and no damage, run it.

If there is any damage, I would definitely pull the bowl, and check the trailing edge. A good time to look at the vanes in the bowl.

If the trailing edge is good, run it. If there is damage, time to pull the impeller for repair or replacement.

At that point, checking the impeller skirt and wear ring for tolerances.

A sloppy wear ring is an easy 500 rpm gain on a modest hp engine, and probably more on your set-up.

So easy, a caveman can do it.

Dan'l

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on May 15, 2019, 07:31:50 PM

 I have a sad update to the winter rebuild. Engine dyno makes 544 lb ft @ 4000 rpm. 478 hp @ 5400 rpm pump gas single 850 double pumper. Seats redone turned out good. Got her back from the paint shop fixed the dock rash. All that's left is the pump. Now The Bad; Around the 19th of April 2019  I take the pump to Skagen Marine. They had a stellar reputation in the NW, and I'm about an hour or so from the shop in Auburn WA. Drop off the pump and wait.

Update, pump definitely needed to be rebuilt. Wear ring almost completely worn through, bearings shot, impeller chewed up/shot. Had I waited the housing would have been worn through/shot.  My suggestion to those who are in doubt, rebuild her. I was originally going to wait until winter as the cost of my new engine, paint, interior has gotten out of hand. Thankful I didn't take the chance...

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: gomo1980 on May 15, 2019, 08:23:26 PM

That’s real bummer. I have a berk suction housing that’s complete and in decent condition if you are interested in trying to get the boat going.


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: bobjthomson on May 15, 2019, 09:20:52 PM

Keep on trying bro , if no contact get the police involved. I have a few contacts in WA that might be able to help out . Let me check with them and will get back to u


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: bobjthomson on May 15, 2019, 09:22:35 PM

My old tool guy is in Tacoma and he can get it for u , pm ur # to me and we can sort this out


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: bobjthomson on May 15, 2019, 09:27:08 PM

My cell is 6264989982 txt me anytime and will help u get this resolved


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on May 15, 2019, 09:35:28 PM

Text sent, Thanks for the help. I'm bummed...

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on May 15, 2019, 09:48:04 PM

Go Mo 1980 Thanks I am going to wait and see if I can get my pump back first...

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: bobjthomson on May 15, 2019, 10:41:31 PM

Didn’t get the txt lol


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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: FordLover on May 16, 2019, 11:20:43 AM

Quote from: bobjthomson on May 15, 2019, 10:41:31 PM

Didn’t get the txt lol


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I added your phone number to my phone under White Turd Bob. Lol

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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on May 16, 2019, 03:20:53 PM

UPDATE; Meet Toni at the shop today and watched as he finished my pump. It was definitely in need of a rebuild. Family issues were the delay, all is well again except. On the way home yesterday I stopped and put down a deposit on a new Nitro Bass Boat. The wife never liked the Rogers only rode with me once last summer anyway. I will take my time installing the pump and the additional fuel, wiring, etc. I may list it for sale don't know yet.
Anyway, Thanks to the folks who were willing to lend assistance.

Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: 08chevyguy on May 16, 2019, 04:08:17 PM

I'm glad you got it figured out and whether she likes it or not....that boat is too beautiful to get rid of!!!

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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: FordLover on May 16, 2019, 05:16:01 PM

Sweet! Great news!

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Title: Re: How does on tell if the pump needs rebuilding
Post by: BlackSheep on May 16, 2019, 07:45:00 PM

08chevyguy Thanks, I love the boat she does not. I had a flat bottom V-Drive when we meet. She hated that boat so I sold it years ago and bought a cruiser. Since my offshore boating skills are akin to Gilligans we never did the sail into the sunset as we planned back in the '80s. So I sold the cruiser to folks who have the same dream we once had (hope their skills are better than mine) and bought the Rogers last year. Getting old sucks, you attempt to relive the past, only now she isn't as tolerant as 36 or so yrs ago, lol...