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Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
How to test..?
« on: August 25, 2009, 10:31:45 am »
What is the best way to determine the pump condition, without pulling apart..?
(Clearances, etc.)

I had the boat out this weekend (1st time) the 455 olds motor is new & has approx 450 hp & the boat is not lightweight, but acording to GPS we got about 50-55 mph @ 5000 RPM. seems like it should get a little more, & im thinking its the pump.

Any ideas of what to check first.?
Start small, & work my way up.. Also I think a loader would be a good addition.

Thanks in adv
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 07:42:11 pm »
What type of boat, impeller, pump, HP, etc
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1979 Sanger Superjet
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 08:30:25 pm »
Unfortunately there is a whole lot more to it than that.....

Is the tach right?, how does the hull ride?, how well is the weight distributed?, what impeller does the pump have?

These among other things all come in to play when talking pump....

The honest to goodness way to go is to start with a known good condition pump and work up from there... AKA making sure the tolerances in the pump are at least close...

Loaders in most cases help, they sometimes hurt...I would say definately worth the time and expense to experiment.

"Pump condition" is a relitive term, I would personally guarantee there is something that should be done to every pump out there in a running boat, it just depends on how bad it is and what your trying to do with it....

5K and 55 MPH does not sound too out of touch with reality... :thumbup:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 08:52:32 pm »
Unfortunately there is a whole lot more to it than that.....

Wasnt trying to say thats all there was to it, god knows that I am no expert. Just trying to gather more info for the experts
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 08:55:08 pm »
Wasnt trying to say thats all there was to it, god knows that I am no expert. Just trying to gather more info for the experts

Sorry OC, wasn't aimed at you but at Chili, should have quoted his origional post ;)

BTW it is a Berkely 12 JG, droop and Diverter....(I read it in his siggy  :sly:)
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 09:00:23 pm »
Sorry OC, wasn't aimed at you but at Chili, should have quoted his origional post ;)

BTW it is a Berkely 12 JG, droop and Diverter....(I read it in his siggy  :sly:)

Its cool, figured those questions would get asked eventually thought I would get it out of the way!

Back to your regularly scheduled program
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1979 Sanger Superjet
BBC, 12JG

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 09:09:29 pm »
Chile your RPM vs H/P numbers are "spot on" , suspect you "speed" issues are due to trim  or lack there of (wetted surface) be curious to know where the hull "breaks water" normally loaded Tom

pics would help !
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Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2009, 11:11:58 pm »
Yea i will have some pics up soon when running at full speed with Diverter up all the way, and maybe a few shots of it down a couple notches too. (plenty of pics all the way up.. lol)


What type of boat, impeller, pump, HP, etc
Belmont Jet (see link in sig)
Not sure of the Impeller
Berkeley G Bowl
Supposedly 450 HP (i will confirm tomorrow with JMS Racing)


Tom, would you guess a loader (Berkeley SS) would help.?
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

propless

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 11:33:10 pm »
Chili, I just looked at your pics in the gallery, noticed the trim plates.  If those things are angled down much they will scrub off speed like a parachute !   Put a straight edge under the boat and make sure someone didn't set them way down.
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Welcome to the club of broken boats :o  Pay here$ bend over and move along.

Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 09:58:52 am »
GREAT suggestion Propless, i will look into that today.!!
Thanks


What angle should they be at.?
Down at all, or up a little, or dead even.?


Also any idea why i wouldn't have a ride plate under my pump.?
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 10:11:22 am »
Most boats didnt come with them under the pump, something that most added after.

Start with it dead straight and go from there till you get the best ride/speed only moving it in very small increments each time
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propless

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 10:40:01 am »

Start with it dead straight and go from there till you get the best ride/speed only moving it in very small increments each time

X2,  Theres realy no perfect place to put them, its different on every boat and depends what you are doing with the boat that day. Start with them even with the bottom and see what it does, setting them down will help the boat plane at slower speed (great for towing little ones on floaties) but will cost top speed big time. 

Moving the plates down will bring the bow down (slower but better ride), moving them up will let the bow come up (faster but can develop other issues, porpoising). Like OC2Vegas said "only moving it in very small increments" a small change on the plates can make a big difference in how the boat acts and handles.
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Welcome to the club of broken boats :o  Pay here$ bend over and move along.

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 08:27:16 pm »
on a Jet in particular the "plates"  act to make the boat think its longer the work well at "0" (bottom of plate even with the hull they add "hook" when angled down which might help the ride and cure some porpoise issues and above zero they make a nifty step to get back in the boat after an "anchor check" or "boat soda relief" Lots of early Jets end up with them to try to cure or enhance ride issues Proppy is correct they with (in down pos) seriously bury the nose and sloooow you down Tom

Just for S's and G's heres Josh's
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 09:38:29 pm »
Did anyone notice that old school LOOOOOOOOONG droop .
That thing has to be dragging in the water.

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 10:12:42 pm »
Did anyone notice that old school LOOOOOOOOONG droop .
That thing has to be dragging in the water.

-beerjet-

Some guys pay big bucks to have a long droop, chicks dig em :thumbup:

I don't see the droop making a big negative impact, would love to see a picture of the hull at speed... :sly:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2009, 12:13:35 am »
Is the "old" long droop a bad thing.?
Would the old long style work better or worse with certain HP, or weight.?

I am waiting on the pics myself, they were taken by friends & they are lagging on getting them off their camera, but i will post them as soon as i get em. Trust me im anxious as hell to see them.!! (they should come with video too)
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2009, 12:52:28 pm »
Is the "old" long droop a bad thing.?
Would the old long style work better or worse with certain HP, or weight.?

I am waiting on the pics myself, they were taken by friends & they are lagging on getting them off their camera, but i will post them as soon as i get em. Trust me im anxious as hell to see them.!! (they should come with video too)

I really like the long, or full droops on lighter hulls. I have had limited success on the half droops, but then again my last three boats are light as a feather. The Southwind we just got together is a little heavier, but I went with a full droop and rideplate anyway, the reason behind the decision was a small block Chevy is what makes it go (read; bow heavy)........

A lot of people I have talked to say there is too much drag when using a full droop, I say it all depends on the nozzle type being used.....An example whould be a late Place Diverter versus an older version, the older will drag pretty good. The "R" nozzle and side exiting reverse bucket (butt bucket  ;D ) for non Diverter aplications is a must......

I will wait in the wings patiently for a picture of the hull running to say one way or another, but I think you will be close, the tabs are going to be more of an issue IMHO.... :thumbup:

GT
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 02:57:05 pm by GT Jets »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2009, 01:07:33 pm »
Yes hopefully i'll have pics before this weekend is up. :banghead:

Hey that reminds me, whats up with the reverse bucket.. seems like it is dragging. Can i put the side exits style on the diverter.? (or does that mean a whole new diverter, or no diverter.?)
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2009, 01:23:17 pm »
Yes hopefully i'll have pics before this weekend is up. :banghead:

Hey that reminds me, whats up with the reverse bucket.. seems like it is dragging. Can i put the side exits style on the diverter.? (or does that mean a whole new diverter, or no diverter.?)

I believe Tom a JBP modifies the Berkeley to work on a Place Diverter, do you have the new style or the old? The old has a reverse outlet that almost points down at a 45* angle and drags log a MOFO  O0, the new has a 8" flat ride area after the outlet.. :thumbup:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2009, 02:47:29 pm »
Here is a closer look at the diverter. Yes it is the 45 degree one. :(
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2009, 02:53:58 pm »
Here is a closer look at the diverter. Yes it is the 45 degree one. :(

I have had Zero success with that Diverter, I had a freind actually mill his off and plate the bottom, but reverse was laughable... :D

I would suspect that to be a part of the issues you are having...

Got $300?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/1340214725.html

No pictures so don't know which it is.... :-\

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Chili

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2009, 05:36:48 pm »
ok here are some pics.. not as good as i had hoped, but maybe you guys can tell something.
You can see what happens when i let a buddy drive..

Wouldn't you know they film the rooster tail when i stand on it. lol (terrible sound, turn it down)
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1974 Belmont - Pics/Gallery
455 Olds, Dual 600 Edelbrocks (455hp, 550tq)
Berkeley Jet (12 JG), Droop Snoot, Place Diverter

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2009, 05:48:50 pm »
ok here are some pics.. not as good as i had hoped, but maybe you guys can tell something.
You can see what happens when i let a buddy drive..

Wouldn't you know they film the rooster tail when i stand on it. lol (terrible sound, turn it down)


Chili,

Good looking ride  :thumbup:

If you watch that vid, you will notice how "chunky" the rooster tail is...that is due to water being brought in by the reverse scoop and back out the nozzle...The rooster tail should be "fluffy" and misty due to the exit velocity.

The way I see it there are two options (or more)

First, I think the setup is really close, it airs out ok and seems to ride well...but the speed is low because of the velocity loss at the nozzle, the output of the nozzle is being choked up with all that extra volume...

One cheap and easy would be to remove the droop and go with a standard adapter to get the diverter out of the water. This may make the hull ride nose heavy and may not see any improvement in overall top end speed...

The other way would be to either try a satndard "R" nozzle or go with the later ride surface Diverter, obviously you will lose the adjustability with the "R", but may answer weather or not to spend the coin on a new Diverter (you could always sell yours on E-prey)..

These are just random thoughts and should be taken with a grain of salt, but betting I'm close.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2009, 05:55:10 pm »
first thing i would do is get every body (except you) and everything out of the boat. and go retest with half tanks of gas. second would be a loader. your boat rides really wet, the water breaking at your feet, instead of behind you. the rooster tail should not push the ass of the boat down. when you run it find the sweet spot with the roost.(you will feel the boat free up)

sorry for the ramble. i would not worry too much about that old diverter unless you want to spend money, work with what you have, try with out the drooop
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: How to test..?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2009, 06:26:20 pm »
Chili,

I was looking at thae pic of your diverter on the desktop (20"HD monitor  O0 ) and want to know....what the hell is going on with your steering cable/linkage setup, that fugger has wreck written all over it.

Be careful with that badboy bro. :-\

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

 


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