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connorstexas

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berk pump with dominator bowl?
« on: August 02, 2017, 08:25:17 PM »
is it possible to put a dominator bowl on a berkeley 12jc pump?


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Blue2184

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 04:51:40 AM »
Sure... I have one on my berk


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connorstexas

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 05:53:23 AM »
does it use the berk or dominator impeller?


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Flusher

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 09:44:49 PM »
Either, they are dimensionally interchangeable.

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connorstexas

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 05:02:21 PM »
if it doesnt sell this week its goin on my float


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mash on it

  • Karma: +29/-0
Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 05:31:40 PM »
Either, they are dimensionally interchangeable.

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So, I have 2 pumps.

One is a JC with a Diverter.

The other one is a Dom with the 'Glacial' bowl bushings.

So, will the Berk Diverter fit into the Dom steering adapter, and bolt onto the JC suction piece?

Or would a JA bowl be better for the JC pump ? (and add the Diverter)

Dan'l

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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 11:15:03 PM »

So, I have 2 pumps.

One is a JC with a Diverter.

The other one is a Dom with the 'Glacial' bowl bushings.

So, will the Berk Diverter fit into the Dom steering adapter, and bolt onto the JC suction piece?

Or would a JA bowl be better for the JC pump ? (and add the Diverter)

Dan'l

As you are well aware, the answer is largely dependent on the application and what the end user is willing and able to make work for said application.

First, I am going to say, if the Dominator bowl outlet doesn't look like the one pictured below, don't even bother unless you need to piece together some junk to get back on the water.

There are two Dominator suction bolt patterns.  The small 10.250" bolt-circle, which is common with all Berkeley pumps; seals with a gasket; and has a 9.125" diameter register.  The large 10.500" bolt-circle bowls have a 9.500" diameter register and seal with an o-ring.  Both Dominator bowls have an outside diameter of 11.6" to the Berkeley 11.4" outside diameter.  All Berkeley (split bowls), Dominator, and Aggressor have a 7.250" diameter outlet bolt-circle so that droops and steering adapters are interchangeable with the exception of some adapters have a register that could be an odd diameter.

If the bolt pattern and register are the same, yes it will bolt up without issue (internally).  However, if a Berkeley transom housing is to be used with a Dominator , the transom housing will need to be bored to fit over the Dominator bowl's larger diameter, or make transom plates.   Also, modern Dominator bowls are longer so the steering tube will need to be turned around or use an extension so the steering lines up.

It's not worth putting a large bolt-circle bowl on a small bolt-circle suction housing.  I'm not going to address how to do that.

There are two types of bowl bushing lubrication used in the modern design Dominator bowl.  Grease lubricating (preferred) and water lubricating.  Both can use Glacier type bushings (though some water lubricating bowls do not).  Grease lubricating can be identified by the presence of a plug with a zerk at the center of the hub on the outlet side and have a lip seal behind the impeller.

Water lubricating works surprisingly well if the water doesn't have a lot of particulates and the shaft is hard chromed.  Or it can be converted to grease lubricating.  Water lubricating can not be run on the trailer.  Actually, we don't recommend running a connected jet on the trailer period.  Basically, for the river, grease lubricating is the best choice for longevity.

As far as, which bowl is the better choice?  Application!  Application!  Application!

Can the boat benefit from a full droop?  If yes, then that narrows down the choice to the (hopefully modern) Dominator or the A bowl.

If the addition of a full droop does not increase performance, or worse yet, induces an unsafe handling issue, then the C bowl; a split bowl with steering adapter; or if budget permits, a mini droop such as the Place Diverter HPH is a better choice.

Performance wise, an out-of-the-box Dominator bowl is approximately equal to our best detailed Berkeley G bowls in a very consistent 8.00 boat.  Comparing one of our detailed Dominator bowls to one of our detailed Berkeley G bowls, the Dominator is approximately .150 seconds faster in a 9.00 boat.  I won't entertain who got what detailed where and how well it worked or didn't.

We feel that a G (black) bowl has a slight advantage in a purely drag race application over the A (orange) bowl, on the hit.  If enough horsepower is produced to actually measure the difference with data, that performance level mandates a launch profile.  The Dominator bowl will have even more of an advantage.

I believe the Dominator steering socket diameter is the same as the Berkeley, depending on the age of each, should be interchangeable.

With all that being said, and without seeing exactly what you have and knowing the desired goals and application, I can't say exactly what is interchangeable or even worth doing.

I would ask, if the Dominator pump is all modern castings and is in rebuildable condition, why not just swap out the entire pump if you are willing to undertake the challenge of just swapping to a Dominator bowl?  Dominator castings are a lot more heavy duty than the Berkeley cursive logo casting.  I will say that the Berkeley suction housing has a better short-turn radius and slightly loads the impeller harder.

Cheers,

Joe
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mash on it

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 07:33:41 AM »
Wow, Thanks Flusher.

What I have-

'76 Eliminator Day Cruiser, 454, JC pump, bowl and Diverter. Ride plate and shoe, too

And a 75 Saguaro, SBC, Dominator pump, no Diverter, but has a shoe and ride plate.

I wanted to swap out the JC bowl to the Dom bowl, and add a droop for the Day Cruiser.

The cruiser tops out at ~61 or so (GPS'd on the river). I think there is more left in it.

I also have a JB bowl. Perhaps not the best choice, No?

Oh, and JC on the Saguaro, still no Diverter.

Dan'l
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Flusher

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 03:36:17 PM »
Wow, Thanks Flusher.

What I have-

'76 Eliminator Day Cruiser, 454, JC pump, bowl and Diverter. Ride plate and shoe, too

And a 75 Saguaro, SBC, Dominator pump, no Diverter, but has a shoe and ride plate.

I wanted to swap out the JC bowl to the Dom bowl, and add a droop for the Day Cruiser.

The cruiser tops out at ~61 or so (GPS'd on the river). I think there is more left in it.

I also have a JB bowl. Perhaps not the best choice, No?

Oh, and JC on the Saguaro, still no Diverter.

Dan'l
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placecraft jess

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 04:20:00 PM »
Hey flusher so this bowl really is not very good I bought the whole pump but if it isn't worth the switch I won't bother thanks jess


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Flusher

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 06:21:02 PM »


Hey flusher so this bowl really is not very good I bought the whole pump but if it isn't worth the switch I won't bother thanks jess


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Apologies to the O.P. for the thread jack.

The machine work to open up the outlet on that old style Dominator will make a noticeable performance difference, all else being equal.  On that style bowl, that mod is just to wake up an obsolete design without spending a lot of money on a new bowl.

Just a suggestion:  I would remove the lip where the outlet wasn't machined deep enough to transition into the tapered inner surface of the casting.  You could even blend a radius to further smooth that transition.  Just be careful not to go hog wild and make it too thin.  Remember, your steering and trim are attached there.

If you are building a ski boat to go cruise with the family, it will work just fine.  Most importantly, it will allow you to retain extra budget for enjoying on the water.

If you are trying to race and be competitive, I would go with a modern Dominator bowl.  Actually, I have done that same mod seven times last month on budget builds, but honestly, we never do a full-detail on those old Dominator bowls because we don't feel they are worth investing in.

Chances are, that that pump has a good heavy duty suction housing.  If it has ribs on the sides, it's a keeper.  It may have a good 17-4 (magnetic) stainless shaft.  If it has a stainless Dominator impeller, it will most likely be better than the extra thick and heavy industrial Berkeley stainless impeller.

Just a head's up on the old Dominator suction housing, it will most likely use a small wear ring and an oddball shaft seal that are no longer available.  The suction housing is worth the investment in boring to upgrade to readily available parts.  If you use the old Dominator impeller, the wear ring surface will need to be turned back to match the width of the modern wear ring.  Also the shaft collar will need to be turned down or replaced for the appropriate shaft seal diameter.  You may also need to swap the bearing cap.

Sorry that my answers aren't very specific, I don't know anything about your build.

Cheers,

Joe
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placecraft jess

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 07:28:04 PM »
Thanks for all the info I really appreciate it


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Flusher

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Re: berk pump with dominator bowl?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2017, 08:22:21 PM »


Wow, Thanks Flusher...

Dan'l


Thanks for all the info I really appreciate it


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Glad I could help
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

 


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