First time taking it out this season. Ran fine for first 20 minutes. Cruising at about 40mph and suddenly heard the metal rattling sounding like coming from drive shift or pump.

If you had to guess what do you think it is?

Edit: I instead the impeller and it is cracked (original aluminum one for 12JE "A", not sure diameter size?) and pitted, which appears to be caused by cavitation which makes sense. I am running what I believe is a mostly stock ford 460 but I can pretty easily spin 5000rpm which from graphs appears these aluminum impellers are not rated for it. Add in some cavitation, high rpm, boil some water and high pressure and I see it cracking and breaking apart like it did. The front lip appears to be completed shredded off...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FID77ItxDPA

I haven't pulled the impeller out (I assume I use a gear puller to pull it past the key ring?) but I can guess the wear ring is toast. Hopefully not the actual housing...

Also I can pull on the drive shaft and it has some back and forward play (maybe a tad excessive about ~1/8"). Is this normal? There is not side to side movement and I cant rotate it of course while it is connected to the engine. Signs of failed thrust bearing though I believe which could have caused the impeller imbalance/eating itself.



Also you can see the bowl seal is shot...I used the boat a few times last season no issue, guess a grenade waiting to happen first time out this year.

How should I inspect the u-joints also?

I was able to slide the impeller out by hand somewhat, couldn't get it completely off, will need a puller.

I was trying to inspect the housing to see if there was any damage/impeller ate into the housing but doesn't appear so. Mostly just started eating the wear ring. I think one of those times where aluminum is weaker than steel and the wear ring might have saved the housing.

I did notice a crack or casting bump down towards the inlet. Does this look of concern? I believe it mostly from casting not an actual crack. I can feel it is raised when I rub my finger across it, so I don't think it is a crack.

There is some forward/aft play in the drive shaft which makes me think the thrust bearing went or started too and the impeller moved and started to eat into the wear ring and cavitate. Hopefully my engine crank is fine. Never measured crank end play before...I don't plan on pulling the engine completely, just enough to raise it high enough in the bay to clear the drive shaft and pull it out forward.

Also the bowl  veins appear to be in pretty good shape. I tried to take picture of the bearings, they are shot as the seal is shot. Milky grease/water still left in the bowl. Hopefully the bearing house is still honed enough to accept new replacement bearings/seal. As soon as I heard the harsh rattling i started to slow down and kill the engine. It appears the bowl bearings only superficial made some marks on the drive shaft. I can't feel any bumps from the bearing marks on the drive shaft with my finger but I plan to replace the drive shaft also when replacing the thrust bearing with a shaft that will accept an inducer.

Overall anything else I should be checking or replacing?

List so far:
- New AA aluminum impeller
- shouldered SS wear ring
- shim kit for wear ring
- inducer (may not be worth to get an inducer for E pump?)
- drive shaft for inducer with snap ring (maybe just reuse driveshaft if I don't need inducer)
- thrust bearing and shaft sleeve
- bowl bearings and seals
- packing glands
- contemplating switching to a 4 point mount instead of my 3 point with the engine lifted. My bell housing does have hole to reach your in hand in there but mostly I would do it for piece of mind if I ever do build the engine up and easier to disconnect pump from the engine for running on land/tuning purposes.

Main special tools needed:
- Puller for impeller (3 jaw gear puller https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-three-jaw-gear-puller-69224.html)
- Press for shaft bearings (friend has HF hydraulic one which will probably work fine)
- Bearing seal tap for bowl bearings/seal.  (HF https://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-race-and-seal-driver-set-10-pc-63261.html)
- I got the impeller nut with a large adjustable wrench no problem. The nut had a nylon insert, not sure if this is factory. But I didn't need 300ft-lbs of torque to get it off like some people do. Plan to re-use the nut as it isn't corroded at all.

Where to start, hmmmm.

A mostly stock 460, with an A impeller should be at ~4800.

You'll drop approx 300 rpm with a 2A.

A pump sees actual (uncorrected) HP, not corrected HP.

For reference, a boat I own, had a 460, A impeller, and a top speed of 52, previous owner, gps'd. I bought the boat less motor, and bolted in a 325 hp SBC, ran 55 with 3 aboard, and 57 by my self, same pump.

My big block boat, with an American Turbine AA impeller, turned 4950-5000 rpm, and right at 500 HP. (And only 57 mph up river)

A loose pump will turn more rpm, ~200 or so, maybe more.

If you're set on a 2A, you'll probably want more horsepower.

Hope this helps.

Dan'l

I was easily turning 5100rpm (max rev limit) with this A pump but as you can tell the pump was clearly inefficient. Funny enough I was able to hit 65mph gps with the impeller in this condition which is crazy (slow build up to that speed)...

Given peak HP on most stock 460 is around the 4500rpm mark, I feel a 2A is good enough with maybe 5 or so HP loss compared to a A pump spinning a 460 at 4800rpm, but lower RPM with less wear on the engine, lower decibels, and room to upgrade the engine horsepower in the same relative RPM band (keep RPMs 5K or less with aluminum impeller). I don't really want to build a 460 out to scream at 6K+ and have peak horsepower way up high.

I was able to pull the impeller off and appears the wear ring wasn't eat through into the pump housing and the suction lip appears fine. Even the veins on the bowl look fine. I guess all the metal pieces coming off impeller mostly went through the bowl un-touched which is crazy. In the last part of my video I can easily move the drive shaft up down, side to side, in and out, makes me think my thrust bearing is gone. Hopefully my engine crank is alright.

Is inducer worth it on a 12JE?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/L2l3ifFdUPM



I appreciate the real world insight.

I take it this pump is done, can't be sleeved? Thurst bearing exploded. Doesn't appear my 12je is fully epoxy in and can be unbolted and replaced?

https://youtube.com/shorts/-UsmZovS-8Y?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/y0DUlmC6XSU?feature=share

Does my bowl look OK? The bowl bearing housing looks a little suspect?

Giant piece of metal chunk taken out of the lip on the suction housing. The bearing balls were in pieces mostly. The bowl is maybe serviceable but Tom from JP is taking care of me. I had already previously reached out to him for replacement shaft, impeller, inducer, bearing, seals, and a new rail kit. Luckily he had another e suction housing. Just going to be a bear removing the old suction housing.

From what I gathered the oscillating tool is my friend to break up the old epoxy.

No one services these boats in my area so everything is diy but mostly it hasn't been too bad so far taking things apart, but that is always easier than putting them back together.