SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: AQUAHOLIC on July 14, 2008, 09:18:36 AM
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i was asking about this in another thread but instead of high jacking that one i decided to create another.
so my question is has anyone heard anything about this. besides having the jet-o-vator what are the perks to paying over 3k for the power package.
here is the link
http://www.pantherjet.com/REPOWERSELL.htm
i am running a 20.5 mini daycruiser with a slightly built 454. my boat right now will hit the high 40 mph range. i would like to maybe get a little more performance out of it. and not being able to throw up a rooster tail is kind of lame.
anyway if anyone has heard anything about the numbers i would like to know.
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IMHO don't do it. Tom's energizer kit would be $ better spent. I found a used split bowl berk with diverter had it rebuilt and had it cut into a hull(set back) for about 3 k.
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Aqua this 20' boat ran 55 before at 5600 + ,70 after at 5100 ,the jet you see coming out was a Brand new Bronze sleeved factory unit (with thier trim) with only a few hrs on it Tom
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Frandy%2520thompson%2F02.jpg&hash=05c841b9cb2b3930fd4dc6345c8c797006e2745e)
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Heres some more examples : www.jetdriveconversion.com
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JBP Panther Repower Package = Conversion To And Installation of New Berk Style Pump
Everything to gain (i.e. performance, parts availability/interchangeability) and nothing to lose. Well worth it IMO
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Thanks Jon ,I wont say = to, but certainly an "alternative" choice , The very best IMO is the way we did Camo's however it is not a job for the faint of heart and not cheap Tom
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so for around 3k i send you my pump and i get a new one with all the goodies ready to bolt into my boat right? my family owns a fiberglass shop i just dont want to deal with cutting up the bottem of the boat.
thanks for all the info.
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JBP Panther Repower Package = Conversion To And Installation of New Berk Style Pump
Everything to gain (i.e. performance, parts availability/interchangeability) and nothing to lose. Well worth it IMO
I wouldn't say everything. ::) It still uses the axial flow impeller used in the Panther, instead of the mixed flow Berkeley style. And, you still have any inefficiencies designed into the PantherJet suction housing and impeller, right? :banghead:
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so for around 3k i send you my pump and i get a new one with all the goodies ready to bolt into my boat right? my family owns a fiberglass shop i just dont want to deal with cutting up the bottem of the boat.
thanks for all the info.
Your family owns a fiberglass shop and you're unsure about converting to a Berk style pump??? ???
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ya funny hugh.. i would just rather bolt something up. at any given time i have 2 or 3 projects going so i really dont want to dive into redoing the hull. at least until i catch up with the new buggy and my blazer. plus there are still some on the back burner.
just thought this would be an easy alternative that could give me somemore power with minimal work.
i just have not heard any reviews of people who have actually done it yet.
also from the pics i saw the pump no longer uses the panther cover piece. but i am not sure on that either.
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I wouldn't say everything. ::) It still uses the axial flow impeller used in the Panther, instead of the mixed flow Berkeley style. And, you still have any inefficiencies designed into the PantherJet suction housing and impeller, right? :banghead:
Sorry but this is incorrect "It still uses the axial flow impeller used in the Panther" The only thing really used from the Panther original jet in this conversion is the suction housing . All other parts and pieces are A/T dominator including (but not limited to) 17-4 race shaft ,A/T impeller ,Dom "+" bowl , different seal pack , Dom Nozzel adaptor ,steering , drive line upgrade, splashwell steering etc etc The kit is very complete and will "abandon" all the original pieces sans the housing ,those housing ,incidentally can even be used (once evaluated) if gouged and damaged from a previous impeller/and bearing failure that would normally require "sleeving" Hope this clarifies Tom
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Sorry but this is incorrect "It still uses the axial flow impeller used in the Panther" The only thing really used from the Panther original jet in this conversion is the suction housing . All other parts and pieces are A/T dominator including (but not limited to) 17-4 race shaft ,A/T impeller ,Dom "+" bowl , different seal pack , Dom Nozzel adaptor ,steering , drive line upgrade, splashwell steering etc etc The kit is very complete and will "abandon" all the original pieces sans the housing ,those housing ,incidentally can even be used (once evaluated) if gouged and damaged from a previous impeller/and bearing failure that would normally require "sleeving" Hope this clarifies Tom
Thanks Tom. ;D Sorry about the misinformed post. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Aqua this 20' boat ran 55 before at 5600 + ,70 after at 5100 ,the jet you see coming out was a Brand new Bronze sleeved factory unit (with thier trim) with only a few hrs on it Tom
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Frandy%2520thompson%2F02.jpg&hash=05c841b9cb2b3930fd4dc6345c8c797006e2745e)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Frandy%2520thompson%2F000_0153.jpg&hash=d9c8c0a4c69b1f6bd174dfae5b7893c413a81680)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Frandy%2520thompson%2F100_1052.jpg&hash=01b06a1d48cbaeb7d2c765d8776cc79cead869cc)
Heres some more examples : www.jetdriveconversion.com
so you are saying this boat did 55 with a new panther and 70 with that berk style american turbine.. if i would get that much performance from the swap. i will go get my sawzall...
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No Sawzall neccesary for this swap its a "direct bolt in" ,only one 2 inch hole to drill for the splash well steering ! Tom
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how does a berk style pump bolt right on to the panther housing. i am confuseed ???.. anyway the boat is going under the knife for interior this winter so that might be a good time to yank the drive out of there as well. since everything will be removed.
could you elaborate on this swap a little for me.
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The ONLY part reused from the Panther is the suction housing The kit has been engineered to "retrofit" the hsg (thus no hull mods (except splash well steering) The other way of course is to cut out the bottom ,reconstruct and install a Berk/Dom,AT ( http://www.jetboatperformance.com/index.php?p=Pantherdominator )
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2FPanther%2520Prototype%2FDSC05971.jpg&hash=d3c9a468ce8b56407c69e9de5bf4191df10be70d)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2FPanther%2520Prototype%2F100_0903.jpg&hash=c685c10b9a7a2bb958424da551444e3acb09905e)
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Fwiw, I did my install by single handedly. The most chalenging part (for me) was to get the old panther off,(friggin silycone :banghead:)
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nice. but from that link it looks like you cut the boat apart anyway. what does this mod cost. is it sold by JBP. or panther themselves.
that set up in that link is bad ass.
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I'm not sure what link you are refering to ,or if you were talking to me or Tom, but like Tom said a hole saw is the only saw you will need.
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( http://www.jetboatperformance.com/index.php?p=Pantherdominator )
that is the link. they converted a panther to a set back dominator looks bad ass. but my boat does not have 650 hp and i dont think it needs all that. to tell you the truth it is fast enough. i just want a rooster tail. and for the cost i might as well upgrade the pump while i do it.
so slckreg you have done this conversion to your panther?
1. the motor does not need to be moved
2. the boat does not have to be cut (besides the steering hole)
3. what where the pros and cons of doing this
4. was it worth the money?
these are just some questions i have.
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I didn't click on that but I bet you were looking a camomans ,panther to domi conversion, that included a set back. Like Tom said this deal is pretty much bolt on. The motor does not have to be moved. For me It dropped me 700 r's and I picked up 10mph or so. I's say it was worth it.
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what did it end up costing overall. does it come with place diverter"?
thanks for all the info this is exactly what i was looking for.
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I bought mine from american turbine, before I had ever heard of Tom. I'm pretty sure mine was the 1st(out of production unit) the made from Tom's prototypes. Cost I'll leave that up to Tom. I upgraded mine with a stainless impeller. A diverter is an option but I didn't have one. Jrork went with the same deal if I'm not mistaken. I've been looking forward to see how it improves his rpm/mph.
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i wouldnt do the power pack i had it in my boat when i bought it ran 71 alday got drunk cut it out put a berk in it with the fiber glass, gel,pump it cost me $1800 boat ran 77 mph off the traler no shoe ride plate totally stock after shoe ride plate straight snoot and tuning 80.2 with logs put headers and a carb and cam 84.5 with like 480-500ish hp in a full upholstery 18' cole your boat is bigger but for the bottom $ youll never be happy as you would with a full berk front to back especially in a big boat panther intake is garbage my .02 take it for what it's worth
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Jrork went with the same deal if I'm not mistaken. I've been looking forward to see how it improves his rpm/mph.
Well, it's a little too early to give hard facts since I've only ran it once and had my fair share of motor issues but what I can tell you is the the Panther Energizer setup that Tommy and Josh put together worked fantastic.
With my old Panther setup the best I could do was the mid to high 60's at 5900 rpm and that was after talking at length to Steve at Panther and doing a ton of setup adjustments and fine tuning. I tried the Devcon epoxy he sold me, cleanedup the leading edges, replaced the water seal, adjusted the rideplate till I damn near wore the threads off the boals and no matter what, it'd cavitate out of the hole and then run great before it'd start cavitating at the top end. Only reason it would stop cavatating at 5900 is that was where my rev limiter is set. As it was, it stopped accelerating after 5300 or so and the rest of the revs were just cavatation
With this new setup that Tommy and Josh hooked me up with, I can stab it out of the hole with no cavitation and it would accelerate with a nice steady pull. I can cruise at 2500 or 3000 and stay on plane whereas my old Panther it would fall off plane so it was either idle or wide open to move around.
Reverse on the Panther was sketchy at best whereas this new setup provides an excellent reverse function.
We were having a ball running it this last weekend for the first time and with my son and I in the boat we could pull 5400 and it felt like it was hauling the mail (no gps at the time).
Unfortunately, we soon started having some motor issues and could never repeat the 5400 pulls but on Monday a group of us set up a speed trap with a boat that had a Radar Gun. At a semi sick running motor we still pulled 74.5mph at a measly 4800 rpm.
So, I can't say what the top speed of our boat is but I can say that with the old Panther pump we were at 5900rpm and the mid to high 60s and now with the Energizer kit we're at 4800 rpm and 74.5 mph.......with such a nicer cruising and reversing ability.
So with all that said, I'm a believer in this Energizer setup given that it literally bolts to the boat with the same 5 bolts that held the original Panther pump in.
Good luck with whatever direction you choose but I'm exceptionally happy with my decision to go with this pump setup and most of all, the decision to go with JetBoatPerformance.....damn good people
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X2 re the folks at JBP. Glad you got her wet Jrork. Good luck getting her going. I wish I could have been there.You guys on the coast have all the fun. ;D
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you must have mis understood me i said money for money its cheaper and quiker,and faster to go all berk i said nothing about tom and his crew they seam to help alot of people out in the boating comunitty
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John add a few squirts of oil to those cyls and retest (check your email) Tommy
Ro and I are talkin the UFO to SA tommorow for more T&T I hope the Mad a$$ porpous is gone ????
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Good luck Tommy..........you have an email too
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ok so i am still confused on the cost of the energizer package vs getting a full berk set up.
pros the energizer bolts right up to my existing hull. no major mods to do.
cons panther intake
pros full berk.. obvious easy to get parts lots of aftermarket and they are proven to go fast
cons i have to cut out the back of my boat and probably remount the motor.
i want to do this mod this winter. i was going to do the interior but i think i will have more fun with a little more speed. plus i like the sleeper boats.
i guess i will get a hold of JBP and see what that kit cost
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The complete panther engerizer kit "retails" $2400 + include steering mt different Drive line spline etc most anyone with some basic mechanical skills and Hand tools can do it , The Berk/ Dom/AT swapout pricing is 'relative' in terms of costs alot depends on who does the work and what parts (new,used,rebuilt) ,on average folks tend to way under estimate cost but this one for example ( http://www.jetboatperformance.com/index.php?p=Pantherdominator ) ran close to 4k (lots of new pieces,Dom Jet, stainless Impeller,Place diverter new cables etc etc) Not so sure BTW that the Panther intake is such a bad thing ;) Tom
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2400 is not bad. that is just the start though i am thinking. add 500 for the place diverter couple hundered in cables and what not. so what are you thinking if it is a bolt on kit i am sure i can do all the maint myself. i am a jet mechanic for a living so i think i can figure it out.
so if i wanted the kit with diverter and planned to do all the work myself what are we looking at here. also what is a used panther worth. it was just rebuilt right before i got it so it is in good shape.
thanks for all the help
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AQUAHOLIC
I had the same problem Jrork was having was totally frustrated until I got a hold of Tom at Jet Boat Performance.
I installed one of their energizer conversions myself with simple hand tools and have been off these forums looking for answers for a year now! Dont get me wrong I love these forums but I was busy burning gas!
The wife and I were so happy with the performamce of the boat we sent it out last winter for a completley new floor and interior.
Listening to that big block scream at 3600 to 3800 just to plain out with that Panther is enough to drive you crazy. It looks like your boat is about the same size as mine about a 21 footer?
Any Way Happy Boating
AND THANKS AGAIN TOM!
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ya mine is 21 ft. what speeds and rpms are you hitting now. and yes getting my boat on plane is a pain in the butt...
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The boat know will plain out at 2800 rpms and can maintain a nice cruise speed at 3000 to 3100 rpms.
The boat has a top speed now of 69.5 on gps.
My last quest is to get my top end speed up to low to mid 70 mph.
I understand its a big boat but there is a hook in the bottom and the ride plate is still about 2 degress down when adjusted all the way up in relation to the bottom of the boat.
Its nice now having 4 or 5 people on the boat and yanking up a skier with ease where as before I just got cavatation.
I never did any calculations but the difference in fuel mileage has also got to be considerable.
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sounds good to me. ya i can barely pick up a skier with 400hp. something is wrong..hahaha..