SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: tahiti mike on June 03, 2007, 07:08:34 PM
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what do you think of the panther conversion.it stil uses the same intake set up.how could it be so great
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call Tom at www.jetboatperformance.com
even though he sells panther stuff, he will give you an honest straight forward answer.
Tell him bad berk sent ya.
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ya i have been talking to tom about doing this conversion to my boat. it sounds great. droop snoop and place diverter included. he will tell you all about it or you can go to jetdriveconversion.com and read up on it yourself.
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I'm curious as to what you expect to gain or what you're looking to get out of it?
You're still going to have to Panther intake which is the root of most of the issues with them......I just don't get it?
If you want a Berk, get a Berk.
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I'm curious as to what you expect to gain or what you're looking to get out of it?
You're still going to have to Panther intake which is the root of most of the issues with them......I just don't get it?
If you want a Berk, get a Berk.
ditto
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tom says i guy gained 20mph and a reduce in rpm. i thought it was the impeller shaft and som other stuff that made the panthers slow.
anyway i am also throwing around the idea of just getting a berk and cutting up my hull. i am not scared of fiberglass that is for sure. anyway that might even be a better way to go since i put a crack in the panther intake when i nailed that rock memorial weekend.
i just like to look at all options before i make a decision.
to tell you the truth i am hoping to sell my boat soon. There is an eliminator hull next door to me and it has been sitting for a while. it needs work but it is an open bow and has everything i want in a boat. i just hope they want to sell it.
anyone interested in the aquaholic if this deal does go down. it has new everything.
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I'm curious as to what you expect to gain or what you're looking to get out of it?
You're still going to have to Panther intake which is the root of most of the issues with them......I just don't get it?
If you want a Berk, get a Berk.
I don't know Jack. Got that over with.
I thought that Panther pumps had weaker main shafts? I thought that you can't add Place Divertor's to Panther pumps? Is there really as much parts availble (new, used, and high perf.) for Panther pumps as there are Berkeley's?
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I've said it a hundred times (at least), if a person is looking to go 80+ mph, get a mixed flow pump. If someone is just wanting an all around good pump for lake use, the Panther is fine. I've been dealing with these things for quite a few years. I've seen some that have had issues and others that have gotten into the 90's.
In the years I've been doing Panthers, I've seen one messed up shaft and that was a picture of one before they were improved upon. If you air a boat out and unload the pump, any pump, there is going to be a lot of load on the shaft. I'm pretty sure that's the reason why pumps with big HP in front of them get stronger shafts.
A lot of the problems stem from the inserts not being installed correctly. I've seen a couple where they were almost an inch off side to side. I've seen others installed a couple of degrees up and others a couple of degrees down.
I just have a lot of questions that have yet to be answered.
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they do sell a diverter for the panther pump. With the conversion you still use the same intake.Ive personally have hit over 70+with a panther in my 19ft tahiti.but still currious on this conversion
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... Ive personally have hit over 70+with a panther in my 19ft tahiti...
NICE! ;D
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Is there really as much parts availble (new, used, and high perf.) for Panther pumps as there are Berkeley's?
You do know that Panther is still in biz right? The info Cas is giving you on them is as good as it gets, he knows them well.
Little trivia on Panther, the guy that started Sidewinder boats, with a boat given to him from his brother-in-law Dick Schuster, was also the the same guy that started Panther pumps. ;D
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I was on www.placediverter.com/ this morning and they make diverter's for Panther's. ;D
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tom says i guy gained 20mph and a reduce in rpm. i thought it was the impeller shaft and som other stuff that made the panthers slow.
anyway i am also throwing around the idea of just getting a berk and cutting up my hull. i am not scared of fiberglass that is for sure. anyway that might even be a better way to go since i put a crack in the panther intake when i nailed that rock memorial weekend.
i just like to look at all options before i make a decision.
to tell you the truth i am hoping to sell my boat soon. There is an eliminator hull next door to me and it has been sitting for a while. it needs work but it is an open bow and has everything i want in a boat. i just hope they want to sell it.
anyone interested in the aquaholic if this deal does go down. it has new everything.
I just re-read this post, there's no way you're going to gain 20 mph by simply switching to a berk from a panther.
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I was on www.placediverter.com/ this morning and they make diverter's for Panther's. ;D
I don't see Panther listed anywhere on that on Franks site. Where is it?
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I don't see Panther listed anywhere on that on Franks site. Where is it?
Holy crap, you're right. It's not available.
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Hello everyone,
I often read these forums but don?t generally feel the need to have a voice, however I would like to add a little insight. Let me start by clarifying a couple things, the 20 mph+ improvement my dad mentioned was seen on Camomans conversion when we removed the existing Panther (with two season of use, bronze sleeve, Panther jet-o-vator,) and replaced it with the set back Dominator pump. The boat ran 55 MPH before and is now running in the low 90?s with the admitted addition of more horsepower.
Regarding the ?Panther Energizer? as American Turbine has dubbed it now being manufactured by same. This conversion was never intended as a kit for everyone or every application. The biggest consumer of this kit will most likely be a Panther jet owner faced with replacing their worn and/or damaged jet with an expensive new factory unit. This kit does not ?care? whether the wear ring area inside the jet has been damaged by the impeller as long as the unit is structurally sound. And as far as the intake being the root of most Panthers problems, as previously stated by Cas, that may be correct but it is indeed a Panther problem. Panthers load hard. Our first prototype ran with around 20-25 psi of pressure on the suction side of the impeller at cruising speeds. If anything that is now a benefit to this kit.
Not every one who purchases this kit going to also install a Place Diverter, droop snoot or stainless impeller. Nor is every potential consumer of this kit going to purchase it with the intent of attempting speed of 80+ MPH. One of our most recent retail install?s was simply amazed at the night and day difference in handling characteristics. He has also achieved the same speed as before the conversion with a drop from 5500 RPMs WOT to 4600 RPMs at part throttle (we anxiously awaiting my feedback). Based on that last fact alone (reduced RPM?s), I can say the Oldsmobile guys with Panther Jets are gonna love it.
So is this kit for everyone? Not necessarily but neither are Droops, Inducers, B impellers, Trim, 600HP, Jacuzzi Energizers? The biggest gain a consumer will experience from this kit is options and alternatives to expensive repairs. And never for get the big difference between needing and wanting, a lesson I?m still guilty of not learning yet, I cant leave any thing stock.
Regards to everyone- Josh @ Jet Boat Performance
P.S. Cas, never got a chance to personally thank you for the care package you sent for my daughter. Thanks
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Thanks for the clarification info and welcome to the site!
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I keep hearing about how expensive a Panther pump is to repair and I just can't figure that one out. A standard rebuild at Panther is something like $340.00 plus shipping costs. They very rarely need an impeller as they come stock with a stainless steel unit and very rarely do the main roller bearings need changing.
If someone wants a diverter, it's $800.00 with cable and handle. I'm not sure what the cost is on the install of the wear ring as I've never had the need to put one in a pump nor would I really recommend it.
To me, the numbers just don't jive. $2500.00 or so for this conversion plus a droop and ride plate? so a person is looking at somewhere near $3K or more.
Here's just a few of the issues that I can see-
it still has the Panther intake,
it's now downgraded from a ss to an aluminum impeller
there isn't a handhole to clean it out
there's still no way to alter how it loads (changing loaders)
strength of the inserts
angle of how the insert is installed - you can visibly see the difference in the pictures of the 2 different boats I've seen with the conversion installed. 1 of the pumps is angled up much more.
until there is some real time tested info, my opinion will remain the same.
As far as the rpms, I've lowered the rpms on a few Panthers just by correctly installing the pump and by adding devcon to the wear surface of the suction housing. Yes, there's been a couple that seemed to have big troubles with getting the rpms down but none I've personally worked on. I've heard of that a couple of times with the Panther wear ring install which is a reason why I wouldn't recommend it.
Sorry but I still can't see the overall benefit. As I mentioned above, I think if a person wants a mixed flow pump then they should just get a mixed flow pump. The is especially true if they want a setback as the holes will darn near already be there when the Panther is cut out.
btw, is there any kind of warranty or guarantee?
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another btw, it's my hopes that people can get some real answers to the above mentioned (possible) issues.
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Thanks Steve for your input and contribution !! Tom
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ive got a question where the heck is the hand hole on a panther.
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doesn't have one nor does it really need one. Most of the time you can just move the forward reverse handle back and forth a couple of times and blow the crap out. If it's something like a plastic bag, fishing line or something of the like, you take the 4 Stator housing bolts of and remove the crap....20 minutes or so and you're done.
For the 4 years I had a Panther, I never once clogged the pump to the point I couldn't blow the crap out. In the 3 years I've had a Berk, it's been clogged to the point of none movement 3 times. That's all been in the same waters I've boated for years. With the Panther being axial flow with sharp ss impeller blades, most things get chopped up pretty easily.
4 years ago at the Tower Park deal, I went through a few places without hardly a glitch. A couple of the bad berk guys got all plugged up. That same year, one of the guys filled a 5 gal bucket with weeds that came from his berk.....that actually was pretty amazing to see how much stuff came out.
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P.S. Cas, never got a chance to personally thank you for the care package you sent for my daughter. Thanks
Josh,
You're welcome. I also hope you and your wife were able to get away for dinner at the Lido.