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rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Play in steering bushings
« on: June 02, 2014, 10:46:23 AM »
How much play is allowed in the steering nozzle?  I replaced my bushings but I can still get a little wobble in the nozzle assembly when I grab it with my hands in an up and down motion I was just wondering if the bowl is wore out,  its a 12je pump which uses a c bowl from what I understand?

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75Hustler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 02:26:01 PM »
I've been wondering the same thing...  :o also replaced bushings and get no play in side to side, but loose in the up and down.
  • Boat #1: 1975 Hallet Hustler
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 07:26:00 PM »
Is the play that you are talking about in the diverter?  Is it cable operated?  You will find a lot of play in the cable and manual control.  Cyclone (Boat 999) claimed 15 degrees of play in manual control of diverter.  Most drag boats are switching to hydraulic control with positive stops for up/down.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 07:58:26 PM »
Is the play that you are talking about in the diverter?  Is it cable operated?  You will find a lot of play in the cable and manual control.  Cyclone (Boat 999) claimed 15 degrees of play in manual control of diverter.  Most drag boats are switching to hydraulic control with positive stops for up/down.
my play is in the bushings in the bowl I replaced the bushings but there still some play I just wondered how much was to much the pins look fine and the holes in the bowl don't look elongated .

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75Hustler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2014, 02:29:49 PM »
my play is in the bushings in the bowl I replaced the bushings but there still some play I just wondered how much was to much the pins look fine and the holes in the bowl don't look elongated .

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Was wondering if you've found anything out with the up and down play?
  • Boat #1: 1975 Hallet Hustler
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rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2014, 09:55:11 PM »
Was wondering if you've found anything out with the up and down play?
not yet I was hoping gt jets or someone would chime in here and let us know.

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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2014, 10:19:42 PM »
Are you saying there is play in the nozzle where it is in the gimball? In other words parallel/in line with the steering pins?

In many (if not all cases) the aftermarket nozzles will not fit real snug in a 35+ year old bowl. If you want to snug it up, I would recommend buying some stainless steel shims and shimming between the flat area of the steering pin bushings and the bowl. You need to be careful to keep the nozzle square in the gimball area otherwise it will get bound up in full lock to lock.

This is what I have used with great success, I deal with these folks a whole bunch.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/05408505

You can use a feeler gauge to get an idea of how sloppy things are, in all honesty, if it is not blowing out nozzle o-rings, it is probably fine. That is unless I misread where the slop is.  :-\

Good hunting...

GT
 
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2014, 06:28:18 AM »
The slop is actually in the holes that have the nylon bushings in them that the whole nozzle assembly turns back and forth on, On mine even with new bushing in there you can grab the nozzle and physically see the play where the pins sit in the nylon bushings,  So I was wondering how much play is allowed in there before it's considered junk?

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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2014, 06:49:28 AM »
Gonna need pictures.
There is always play at the nozzle, they were designed to work under pressure, not being jiggled by hand.
I would hunt down and cure and issues you have while underway.
You get it too tight on the trailer and it may cause binding or other issues.
The bushings could definitely be junk though.


-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2014, 11:38:05 AM »
What Omar says..

There is a tremendous amount of flow going through there while running, the water pressure alone is enough to tighten it up.

As long as the nozzle O-ring stays in place, I think you are GTG.

They are all a little sloppy and I am not aware of any "spec." on how far they are allowed to wiggle.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2014, 03:22:01 PM »
The bushings are brand new and I noticed after I replaced them that I could grab the whole nozzle and move it up and down I was wondering if trailering over rough ass roads and that assembly jiggling around a little if it wasn't going to kill my new bushings. As far ad driving the boat and can't notice anything.

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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 12:23:28 PM »
The bushings are brand new and I noticed after I replaced them that I could grab the whole nozzle and move it up and down I was wondering if trailering over rough ass roads and that assembly jiggling around a little if it wasn't going to kill my new bushings. As far ad driving the boat and can't notice anything.

The whole thing is loose and jiggling around?  It should fit pretty snug against the o-ring in the ball socket to maintain a seal.  If it just falls about, it is probably not sealing and you would see water spraying.

The pins should fit pretty tight and as stated above, it is important to maintain a proper crush on the o-ring so the ball socket doesn’t leak.  The pin bores clearances can open up from wear, from sand blasting/powder coating, or from abrasives in the water essentially being extrude honed through the entire pump.

If it is to the point where it bothers you, there are some options to fix it.  The correct way to fix it would be to set it up in a mill, indicated on both pin bores, and bore or ream through both holes at the same time so that both bores remain concentric.  Then press in bushings of your choice.  This is a fairly time consuming setup and would really only be worth it if you had a lot of money tied up in your droop, powder coating etc. because the cost of machine time would be around the price of a new droop.

Another option would be to make new pins with an oversized shoulder.  Anyone with a little lathe and drill press should be able to make these.  I would drill and tap the outside to facilitate removal via threading in a bolt to pull the pins for disassembly.

As stated above, if you don’t have a water show going on and your steering is safe, run it as is and plan for a droop upgrade in the future.  By the way, you never mentioned what droop you have.  Is it anything special?

Good luck,

Joe
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Play in steering bushings
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 12:27:29 PM »
The whole thing is loose and jiggling around?  It should fit pretty snug against the o-ring in the ball socket to maintain a seal.  If it just falls about, it is probably not sealing and you would see water spraying.

The pins should fit pretty tight and as stated above, it is important to maintain a proper crush on the o-ring so the ball socket doesn’t leak.  The pin bores clearances can open up from wear, from sand blasting/powder coating, or from abrasives in the water essentially being extrude honed through the entire pump.

If it is to the point where it bothers you, there are some options to fix it.  The correct way to fix it would be to set it up in a mill, indicated on both pin bores, and bore or ream through both holes at the same time so that both bores remain concentric.  Then press in bushings of your choice.  This is a fairly time consuming setup and would really only be worth it if you had a lot of money tied up in your droop, powder coating etc. because the cost of machine time would be around the price of a new droop.

Another option would be to make new pins with an oversized shoulder.  Anyone with a little lathe and drill press should be able to make these.  I would drill and tap the outside to facilitate removal via threading in a bolt to pull the pins for disassembly.

As stated above, if you don’t have a water show going on and your steering is safe, run it as is and plan for a droop upgrade in the future.  By the way, you never mentioned what droop you have.  Is it anything special?

Good luck,

Joe
there's no droop its a bone stock Berkeley 12je pump the seal on the nozzle is tight it's just a little play in the steering pins so you can grab the whole assembly and get play only right at the pins,  I just replaced the bushing so I'll see how long they last.

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