SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 11:20:52 AM

Title: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 11:20:52 AM
Kind of debatable questions.  I have a '81 18 foot sleekcraft rebel, it's got a fresh 460 (400+ horse), and a fresh JC pump.  The problem I'm having is with a really choppy ride unless it is complete glass.  I know a small jet isn't the smoothest ride, but a buddy of mine has the same size boat but an old school eliminator that ride's way better in the same conditions..   I have a place diverter and no ride plade or trim tabs. 

After reading about characteristics of a ride plate, I think I would definitely benefit from lifting the boat out of the water a touch and riding further back on the hull / ride plate.

I was wondering kind of two part which would be more expensive and/or would there be a noticeable difference going either way?  The JC pump I on my boat has not been modified as a split bowl so I think I have 3 options..

1. Buy a ride plate & shoe and have a shop fit one, not sure what the estimated cost would be.  I'm fairly mechanical, but I don't think I want to take the chance of screwing it up..  I'm in Lakewood, CA and I'm not really sure what shops do this around here..

2. Buy a JG split bowl then buy a droop w/ the ride plate attached that Place makes.. If I go this route, is there any added benefit or detriment to a droop?

3. Have my bowl machined (split) to go w/ the number 2 option except use my existing bowl..

Any opinions on where the money would be better served??

Thanks in advance!!

John
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: Nick on January 27, 2009, 11:32:45 AM
John,

I am also fairly new to all this, so i am looking for but I am looking forward to hearing the responces you get on this thread, I will be in a fairly similar situation in the future.

One thing's for sure, if you are in OC/LA area and you decide to go to a shop to have work done you will want to go to Marine Performace Designs (MPD) in Costa Mesa and talk to Jack McClure. He is the doctor around this part of town.

The guys around here will put in their $.02 in no time.

Nick
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: beerjet on January 27, 2009, 12:18:06 PM
If all your tryin to do is get it to ride better, putting the diverter down a notch should solve your problems .
Generally, a diverter in a position too high (high roostertail) will make a boat handle undesirable at slower speeds .
The middle notch should be good for cruising around and if it is still hopping around try putting the diverter down a notch at a time until the problem goes away.
You will have to play with the higher roostertails to see where your boat like it to be at the HIGHER speeds .

One thing that could make this boat a handling disaster is the bottom of the boat .
If it sat on a trailer for years on end, the bottom could have a ton of hook.
Basically the bottom will not have a flat enough surface to run on.
High and low spots will make the hull fight itself in an up and down position and nothing you do to the pump will solve that or make it safe .
get a straight edge and put it on the bottom of your boat.
From the transome (back) forward.

The ride plate and shoe and droop is a can of worms that seems almost never ending and is mainly designed for higher speed stability.
Your boat should be working fine without any of this stuff first.
SleekCraft made pretty good boats so I'm pointing the finger at your bottom  :sly:
Not like that either  :screwy:

-beerjet-
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: jim brock on January 27, 2009, 01:33:32 PM
the 18 rebel has a shallow vee and a lot of rocker built in the bottom, it will always be rough,droop  will only lift it more out of the water, thats good for smooth water but in rough water it has further to fall down when hit by wakes, there for makes it even  a rougher ride
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 03:11:31 PM
thanks for the replies!!

i've played alot with the diverter.. I can find a point where it will ride pretty good in small chop.. unfortunately, i had to go the hydrolic diverter route so i have to 're-find' the spot every time.. I dont have full length runners to bolt a manual handle too..  it can be a pain in the a$$ find the perfect spot sometimes..

at lower speeds it's not bad when the diverter is positioned right.. I think my problem is the boat want's to porpoise a little at high speed and chop amplifies the problem.. it's hard to explain..  in smooth water, ripples or very small chop it rides like a champ..  but, when it get a little rough is where i have problems.. i mainly go to Parker, not even about to attempt Havasu chop in my dingy next to the ships out there :)

it's almost like when i cut through a couple wakes, the boat wants to lift a touch and slam in between the waves instead of riding through to the next one coming.. i'm thinking if there was a ride plate, the 'slam' affect would calm down and feel like (small chop, chop, chop) because the boat is still riding on the water further back on the hull (ride plate) until i cross the next wake/wave/whoop..  (not sure if that made sense  :-\ )
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: 76NORDIC on January 27, 2009, 05:01:23 PM
Not sure if Tom over at JBP has them but Place has a trim guage kit for the pumps that when you get the hang of it, you will know where the diverter is at all times ;D
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on January 27, 2009, 08:02:41 PM
thanks for the replies!!

i've played alot with the diverter.. I can find a point where it will ride pretty good in small chop.. unfortunately, i had to go the hydrolic diverter route so i have to 're-find' the spot every time.. I dont have full length runners to bolt a manual handle too..  it can be a pain in the a$$ find the perfect spot sometimes..

at lower speeds it's not bad when the diverter is positioned right.. I think my problem is the boat want's to porpoise a little at high speed and chop amplifies the problem.. it's hard to explain..  in smooth water, ripples or very small chop it rides like a champ..  but, when it get a little rough is where i have problems.. i mainly go to Parker, not even about to attempt Havasu chop in my dingy next to the ships out there :)

it's almost like when i cut through a couple wakes, the boat wants to lift a touch and slam in between the waves instead of riding through to the next one coming.. i'm thinking if there was a ride plate, the 'slam' affect would calm down and feel like (small chop, chop, chop) because the boat is still riding on the water further back on the hull (ride plate) until i cross the next wake/wave/whoop..  (not sure if that made sense  :-\ )

I used the counting method for repeatable settings (all the way down and count how long I pressed the "up" button) still hated the hydraulic though, these problems ar a major MOFO toget a handle on.

Stupid question #1  ;D Have you tried putting some weight in the bow?  Try like 80# under the deck....

Stupid question #2 Does the boat porpose, or just ride rough in chop? big difference, a porpose will never really correct when you leave the choppy water....

Stupid question #3 At what speed does it start to pound your ass up to your throat?  :o lower or say just cruising speed?...


A droop will make it easier to drive at speed and may make it more stable, but that may make her dance more... :banghead:

A ride plate makes the boat feel bigger (longer) and would IMO give a pretty good return on the investment, though not a simple bolt on by any stretch, does afford some more adjustability... :sly:

Trim tabs will work, cav. plates even better, but I don't think they would be required (could be used in conjunction with the ride plate and the boat would ride like a bigger boat) and again, more adjustability...

Does the engine vary the RPM when it gets wierd? do you have a loader grate?  (Stupid questions 4 and 5)

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 08:54:03 PM
appreciate the comments..

#1 - I never have tried that, but I dont think i can.. The whole front of the bow is filled with foam..

#2 - I think it just rides ruff in chop..  When i initially get up on plane, if i have the diverter positioned wrong then it does want to dive on itself a little, but once i have it set right, it's a smooth ride..

#3 - cruising and faster speeds is when it get's rough.. lower speeds not a problem..  it actually feels like when i hit small waves, say 1/2 - 1 ft, the boat wants to jump/lift and then drops and drags when it comes back down..  so it kind of throws u forward a little..

#4 - the RPM's will stay about the same.. only variance is my foot waving back and forth  ;)

#5 - i only have a rock grate..

I have a short clip my wife took w/ her camera that I'll try to post..  there's bit of movement, but I think it kind of shows how the boat wants to bang on small/large chop when i get into it..
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on January 27, 2009, 09:03:49 PM
appreciate the comments..

#1 - I never have tried that, but I dont think i can.. The whole front of the bow is filled with foam..

#2 - I think it just rides ruff in chop..  When i initially get up on plane, if i have the diverter positioned wrong then it does want to dive on itself a little, but once i have it set right, it's a smooth ride..

#3 - cruising and faster speeds is when it get's rough.. lower speeds not a problem..  it actually feels like when i hit small waves, say 1/2 - 1 ft, the boat wants to jump/lift and then drops and drags when it comes back down..  so it kind of throws u forward a little..

#4 - the RPM's will stay about the same.. only variance is my foot waving back and forth  ;)

#5 - i only have a rock grate..

I have a short clip my wife took w/ her camera that I'll try to post..  there's bit of movement, but I think it kind of shows how the boat wants to bang on small/large chop when i get into it..

This is killer feedback...IMHO droop and a ride plate together, get the boat off its center of gravity, its acting like a teeter totter...May be able to cure with just a droop (they tend to have a transom lifting trait) and a loader, it will be tuneable with wedges so be patient...

The loader will help keep the pump loaded more consistantly, would be worth trying by itself (read; cheap).

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 09:18:12 PM
Here's the link, around 50 seconds in i step into the motor a little..  there's a lot of camera movement so it might be kind of hard to tell.. but, after i step in it, it starts to bang on some small chop..  don't mind my buddy yappin away and my wife scream for a sec! haha  ;D

http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c18/dm2bfree/?action=view&current=P6070354.flv
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on January 27, 2009, 09:23:22 PM
I almost barfed on my keypad  :P

Put the pedal to the wood and hang on   LOL

You need way more bow down action....Diverter down. Do you have a pic of your Diverter setup?

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 09:46:57 PM
Yeah, it's a little rough ;)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc18%2Fdm2bfree%2FP1270371.jpg&hash=35cc6216f052293a220be9cc9784f1ba8cc20dea)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc18%2Fdm2bfree%2FP1270369.jpg&hash=c6580d1adb245898fc2d1f09ab7295b005fb241e)
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on January 27, 2009, 09:51:20 PM
I do not see any issues at all, you have enough down snoot there to refill your waterglass at speed...  ;D

I will stay with the loader and a snoot (both easily reversible), with the ride plate when your independantly wealthy...

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 27, 2009, 10:24:04 PM
thanks for the help! 
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: propless on January 28, 2009, 02:31:04 AM
 Wow, that video didn't look fun.  dm2bfree, check the bottom of that boat !  If it has a lot of rocker like Jim Brock said that will cause it to ride bow high (like in the vid) and slam down over every wake. And possibly porpoise even on smooth water without plates. 

 Rocker = an upward curve of the bottom towards the transom, like the bottom of a rocking chair.
 Hook = a downward curve.

 If it has rocker, a droop may not be a good thing.  I was told not to run one on my boat (a rocker bottom) unless it was going to be a drag race only boat (smooth water only).   

 This is just my uneducated opinion, but I dought that Jim is wrong.  ;)
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: crusader1983 on January 28, 2009, 08:46:51 AM
By chance do you have a pic of the entire boat I think that you might have bought a old boat of mine.  Thanks
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 28, 2009, 11:54:01 AM
If it has a lot of rocker like Jim Brock said that will cause it to ride bow high (like in the vid) and slam down over every wake. And possibly porpoise even on smooth water without plates. 

This is exactly what the boat does...   So adding a ride plate seems like the slam down behavior could be countered by the extended surface??
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 28, 2009, 12:06:29 PM
By chance do you have a pic of the entire boat I think that you might have bought a old boat of mine.  Thanks

Here you go..  It used to have a matched upholstered cover on the back before I replaced the engine and put on a scoop..

Can't even begin to explain how many problems there were with this boat when I got it..  1st time buyers welcome to boating!  :-\

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc18%2Fdm2bfree%2FP6120356.jpg&hash=b1305b7994dfe300d53698884d17bdd43ed93e4c)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc18%2Fdm2bfree%2FP6120358.jpg&hash=0e77bb501ced74949a3326532ac713cd3bc8615a)
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 28, 2009, 04:24:54 PM
Wow, that video didn't look fun.  dm2bfree, check the bottom of that boat !  If it has a lot of rocker like Jim Brock said that will cause it to ride bow high (like in the vid) and slam down over every wake. And possibly porpoise even on smooth water without plates. 

 Rocker = an upward curve of the bottom towards the transom, like the bottom of a rocking chair.
 Hook = a downward curve.

 If it has rocker, a droop may not be a good thing.  I was told not to run one on my boat (a rocker bottom) unless it was going to be a drag race only boat (smooth water only).   

 This is just my uneducated opinion, but I dought that Jim is wrong.  ;)


I'm going to put a straight edge on bottom of the boat at the transom tonight and post my findings..  Given it does have a lot of rocker which I'm next to positive will be the case now, I guess my next question is which option should I go (fitted ride plate or split bowl, place droop & ride plate) if I need to go with a the ride plate?? I rather go cheap as possible that will fix the problem without jerry rigging it :)

*EDIT - GT answered it above *
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: crusader1983 on January 28, 2009, 04:41:23 PM
Who did you buy the boat from?
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 28, 2009, 05:22:01 PM
I PM'd you, I'm not looking to throw anyone under the bus :)
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 28, 2009, 05:36:32 PM
I do not see any issues at all, you have enough down snoot there to refill your waterglass at speed...  ;D

I will stay with the loader and a snoot (both easily reversible), with the ride plate when your independantly wealthy...

GT

Anyone know if there are options I have to get a snoot without converting to a split bowl?
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: propless on January 28, 2009, 07:59:52 PM
 After you find out if this hull has rocker or not, call Tom at Jet Boat Performance (805-466-4719).  He recently did battle with a rocker bottom boat and if I remember right the droop made things worse. He might have a better idea for you.  Or try calling Jim Brock (818-890-1867), it seams like he already knows this type of boat (post #4).  So, he may have a solution for you too. 

 PS, dont feel bad I'm going to be going through this same battle soon.  :-\
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: maddogg20 on January 28, 2009, 08:19:50 PM
lol stupid question, but if you were to cut a circle in half a rocker is like the top half of the circle and a hook it like the bottom half? or am I confused, and when we are looking for hooks and rockers is that looking from the back of the boat forewards like lengthwise, to see if it indents upwards or curves down?
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: crewchief22 on January 28, 2009, 08:25:47 PM
There is some good information in this thread 

http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=3782.msg53279#msg53279
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 28, 2009, 09:26:54 PM
OK, so i measured with a 3 ft straight edge starting at the end of the transom toward the bow..

This is weird.. Here's my sweet illustration below ;)   if your looking at that boat from top or bottom w/ the transom on the left side it's as follows.  Hope it makes sense! 

 - rocker- very outer bottom edge
 - hook-- side vane
 - hook-- middle vane
jet
 - hook-- middle vane
 - hook-- side vane
 - rocker- very outer bottom edge


So, I think overall I have hook instead of rocker?  or am I measuring from the wrong place?
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on January 28, 2009, 10:55:29 PM
OK, so i measured with a 3 ft straight edge starting at the end of the transom toward the bow..

This is weird.. Here's my sweet illustration below ;)   if your looking at that boat from top or bottom w/ the transom on the left side it's as follows.  Hope it makes sense! 

 - rocker- very outer bottom edge
 - hook-- side vane
 - hook-- middle vane
jet
 - hook-- middle vane
 - hook-- side vane
 - rocker- very outer bottom edge


So, I think overall I have hook instead of rocker?  or am I measuring from the wrong place?

Measure a bit more forward, like from the transom to say six feet, that will tell more of the story.

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: fast fred on January 29, 2009, 06:00:53 PM
If your going to try and go as cheap as possible try checking out hi-tech performance.com. They sell a bolt on ride plate and shoe. No machining in a shoe, its four or five holes to drill in the intake and two in the bowl for the cradle. The whole setup from hi-tech only $236 bucks.
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 29, 2009, 08:29:49 PM
Measure a bit more forward, like from the transom to say six feet, that will tell more of the story.

GT


Ok, I measured from 3ft forward from the transom to 6ft (only have a 3ft straight edge).  Yep, there is rocker at every point, probably 1/8 to 1/4th inch depending how far from center i measure.. 

I must really look like a tweaker to the neighbors with a straight edge and flashlight under my boat at night!  :screwy:
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on January 30, 2009, 01:44:25 AM
If your going to try and go as cheap as possible try checking out hi-tech performance.com. They sell a bolt on ride plate and shoe. No machining in a shoe, its four or five holes to drill in the intake and two in the bowl for the cradle. The whole setup from hi-tech only $236 bucks.

Are you talking about the "Add-on Shoe and Ride Plate Kits" for the JC & JG on this link? http://hi-techperformance.com/HPParts.HTM

Seems simple enough to tap and install..  Anyone have experience with one of these kits on their boat??

I certainly want to go as cheap as possible, but I'd rather spend a little more for the right setup if it'll fix my problem the 1st time  ^-^
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: gregb on January 30, 2009, 01:00:49 PM
I put one on my boat, hardest thing was drilling and tapping the holes in the intake, not easy lying under the boat.  I got some in kind of crooked. although they don't stick below the surface of the shoe.  I haven't had time to really check it out since some engine issues sidelined my testing, but first impressions were this:  At lower speeds, up to 30 or so, the boat seemed to drift at the ass end a little more than it used to, not much but noticeble, turns tighter with the plate.  At higher speeds it tracks a lot straighter even with the jet up and turns a lot sharper at speed, almost lost the cooler and refreshments at one point where before it would make a much more sweeping turn, can't really tell you about how the ride changed since I wasn't out in the chop.  Had it set at 4 degrees up, was going to play around with it, but again was cut short.  Don't know  if it helped or hurt speed any since I had a new engine in the boat before I took it out with the plate, one of these days I'll take it off and see what difference it makes. 
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: jet boat performance on February 06, 2009, 08:09:34 PM
Got in late on this and probably havent read enough (so forgive the redundacy) but "bolt on shoes"  :banghead: ,PITA and IMO potentialy dangerous, shoe and loaders can only be safely and efffectively "added and adjusted" with carefull machining and "measuring" ,were happy to help . Re instant performance gains , the hands down winner is trim (Diverter,Place or Turbine ) always a good investment ,never had a complaint or regret  , Split bowls give your boat "adjustability" more than anything else ,eg  The ability to add wedges , nozzle adaptors like droops , snoots etc ,a great "tuning tool" Hope this helps a little Tom

re "inducers" , by no means a "panacea" they too have thier place and application too ! We (JBP) try to help you buy and "apply"  whats going to help you and work for you and your application , not just "fill your shopping cart " and bang your credit card  ;)
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 04, 2009, 03:22:15 PM
Just a little update, I ended up putting a set of step-n-trim's on the boat and measured them at 1/8" down and put on a standard berk "Sports Edition loader scoop" to replace my rock grate.. The combination of the two made a world of difference in the ride of the boat..  So I might have lost 5mph on the top end, but it's well worth the smoother ride..
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: IRRebel on May 04, 2009, 06:06:04 PM
Dunno why or how I missed this whole thread. I have uncovered similar problems with The Moo. (78 Rebel). Interested in seeing how you solved them, though I'm running a JE pump, not a JC. On smooth water, which until Sunday at Saguaro is all it has really seen, runs out great.

Boat beat the living hell outta us Sunday. Got up this morning and felt like I played in the Super Bowl with no helmet or pads, lol. Could not really run the thing above 3000 rpm and at that low speed rides the bow pretty high. Too many wake barges! (Damn things so big they should only be used offshore,  and they all were trying to set speed records I think :screwy:) But we saw more than our share of 2+ footers (Aired the boat out once, THAT was exciting). Didn't have much of a problem with it at Bartlett, much better ride. Maybe the current and narrowness of the lake has a lot to do with that.

Gonna go check this hook/rocker thing out, although the boat has not spent extended time on a trailer, maybe it's a common problem with the Sleekcrafts.

Gonna keep this boat off THAT lake until I figure this one out! We'll take the Bisemeyer from now on up there, it'd prolly ride fine(Hydraulic place and ride plates), and it did for my buddies last weekend.

Ray
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 04, 2009, 11:39:19 PM
Dunno why or how I missed this whole thread. I have uncovered similar problems with The Moo. (78 Rebel). Interested in seeing how you solved them, though I'm running a JE pump, not a JC. On smooth water, which until Sunday at Saguaro is all it has really seen, runs out great.

Boat beat the living hell outta us Sunday. Got up this morning and felt like I played in the Super Bowl with no helmet or pads, lol. Could not really run the thing above 3000 rpm and at that low speed rides the bow pretty high. Too many wake barges! (Damn things so big they should only be used offshore,  and they all were trying to set speed records I think :screwy:) But we saw more than our share of 2+ footers (Aired the boat out once, THAT was exciting). Didn't have much of a problem with it at Bartlett, much better ride. Maybe the current and narrowness of the lake has a lot to do with that.

Gonna go check this hook/rocker thing out, although the boat has not spent extended time on a trailer, maybe it's a common problem with the Sleekcrafts.

Gonna keep this boat off THAT lake until I figure this one out! We'll take the Bisemeyer from now on up there, it'd prolly ride fine(Hydraulic place and ride plates), and it did for my buddies last weekend.

Ray

Yep, exact same.. From what a couple people have mentioned, the sleekcraft rebel (mine is an '81) has rocker built into the hull and has shallow 15 deg vee.. so it will never be a completely smooth ride..  From what I read around here is a ride plate typically is positioned up, so it actually helps create a little bit of rocker to get the boat out of the water.  The rebel already has rocker, so I think that would make the condition worse??  The combination of the loader grate,  place diverter & trim tabs (cav plates) all helped significantly.  a day on the river in parker used to beat the crap out of me.. the boat cuts and skims over the wakes without cavitating or wanting to fly on me and body slam from the top rope now..  even with the huge ocean boats blowing past me..  There were probably 2 instances all day that I slammed a little on a bigger wake.. but, it was a smooth ride all day for the most part..  ;D
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: IRRebel on May 04, 2009, 11:57:12 PM
OK, I'm convinced. Post some pics of what you did. I'll probably take the boat for these professionally installed (Tom, the boats coming to you that means). But the JE already has a ride plate, non-adjustable, but I'm too old to take this kind of abuse. I need to be able to open this byatch up at will.

So I was right, it's a design issue. That makes eense. Lord, please forgive me for dropping this kinda horsepower into this thing!!!!

Ray
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 05, 2009, 10:45:29 AM
Will do, I'll take pics of it tonight when I get home..  Some nicely installed cav plate's would probably look alot better than my step-n-trim's, I was on cheap budget   :)
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 06, 2009, 08:46:55 PM
Here are the step-n-trim's, diverter and the loader grate I added.
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on May 06, 2009, 09:04:08 PM
Hmmmmm, Maybe an optical illusion, but that loader looks deep to me. :-\

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: IRRebel on May 06, 2009, 09:11:38 PM
Looks good! Boat looks familiar, lol. Now remove the engine cover, get some OT's and paint it like a farm animal and we're talking!  >:D

My Tax guys are simply perplexed and calling the IRS about 4 times a day (Most of you know my weird situation, can't blame them), so I'm tired of waiting, gonna pull the trigger on a diverter for it next week and see if that cures it any. If Uncle Sam needs more mula from me, he's gonna have to wait in line, lol  ;D

Thought about the loader and Cav Plates, but let's try this and see. Like I said, I could find very little rocker (Less than 1/16") anywhere, and no hook, on the Moo boat with an 8 foot level.

Funny thing is it seems to me to be a deeper V than my Saguaro which Omar swears handles chop very well. But, it does have the tanks mounted clear to the rear, which the Saguaro does not, and I'm assuming mine is the same as yours having a foam filled bow, which the Saguaro does not. (That's the next one, plans to pull it from it's trailer and get going on it next weekend, if my help doesn't Skip out on me). ;D

Ray
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 06, 2009, 09:28:17 PM
Yeah, the bow is foam filled also.. she's looking pretty greasy right now, figured i was going to make sure the boat ran before I cleaned it up :)  The diverter did help the ride a little and getting on plane fast without the bow pointing straight up while it works to get on plane.. But, the diverter didn't help the tendency of the boat wanting to fly up and slam over wakes in my case, but there was rocker near the transom, so hopefully to don't have to spring for cav plates also.. I hope it works out!!
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: IRRebel on May 06, 2009, 09:45:51 PM
Looks like good work! Dunno if Glenn is right about the loader being "deep" or not, he knows more than me.

As far as getting on plane, I'm pushing quite a bit of HP (Machine shop and assembler are guessing around 525 to 550, Assometer confirms this is probably pretty accurate, but I don't know boats, could be more. Gonna drag one o dem on a run one day to see what they think), and a quick blip of the throttle for a few seconds gets her up on plane pretty much immediately. The AA Impeller is all that slows that holeshot process down, I beleive, takes it a second or two to load up.

Just need to figure out the best combination for its ride in rough water!

Ray
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 07, 2009, 01:52:37 PM
Hmmmmm, Maybe an optical illusion, but that loader looks deep to me. :-\

GT

Not quite sure what you mean, you think it looks too deep into the hull?  ???
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: GT Jets on May 07, 2009, 06:08:15 PM
Not quite sure what you mean, you think it looks too deep into the hull?  ???

If you could take a straight edge to the bottom across the intake the loader shoul be slightly above the keel of the hull, yours looks as though it is below.

If it is below, we call that "deep" if it is way above the keel, we call that "shallow", too deep and it takes too big of a bite, causes poor handling and possible overloading, too shallow and it does an inadequate job of loading and can cause some cavitation issues.....

I dont know where the ideal height is anymore but we used to set that type up to be about 1/8" above the keel.....Just depends on the train of thought.

Also, bolt selection is very important, have heard horror stories of these badboys coming off, use black oxide hardened bolts and thru bolt them through the intake and nuts on the top side...

GT
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 08, 2009, 01:27:59 PM
I'll check it out.. So do you mean the grate (in the middle) being 1/8" above the keel or the actual loaders sticking down on the sides?  I think it may be a touch below the keel remembering off hand, if it is how would I go about correcting that?  get a different loader?

Also, regarding the bolts, I will change them out.. I put stainless in there, that's what they were with the rock grate, but the loader would seem to have a lot more pressure on it..  It's going to be a pain in the a$$ to bolt them through with the oil pan hanging so low over the intake..
Title: Re: Which way to go? Ride Plate (real one) or Place Droop w/ Ride Plate?
Post by: dm2bfree on May 13, 2009, 03:23:25 PM
BTW, does anyone know the size or length of bolts I should use the bolt the through the intake?
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