Where's the other turnbuckle?   

Ray

OK, Now my head hurts......But all great info! Granted, I used the plasiguage when I set up Moo's engine last year. But that's really all we had out in the sticks 25 years ago, and it's been that long since I've built an engine! We all know where THAT got me!

This is VERY educational! Kinda why I'm posting every nuance of what went wrong on mine. All my fault, somewhere, to be sure!

I disagree that a crank grinder cannot knock down those numbers accurately and consistently even on less than modern equipment. I beleive the problem is with the operator of the lathe, setup, tools and dedication to perfection. Also depends on the accuracy of the line hone and squareness of the bore/hone to that same line.

My brother owns his own machine shop and routinely gets accuracy to under 2 millionths of an inch, consistently, when he needs to (He does a lot of intricate EDM Electrodes and injection mold cavities for another shop, next to impossible to get him to work on my $hit).  I think we substitute the word Cannot with Will Not in this case, or the cost would be a huge factor. Just my .02.

Pat makes a lot of excellent points though. I'm not one to go out and buy 4 or more sets of top shelf bearings to make this work, when the rest will probably never be used again.....Or.....I WILL pay a good machine shop what it's worth to do it right to begin with......I dunno. Some of the numbers I see so far seem to be splitting hairs, to a certain extent, but I also see Nordie's frustration. I'll be balls deep into this 460 of mine with the same frustrations very soon, I think, but I'm gonna do what Pat, Dave and Glenn said this time, measure, measure, measure, then torque. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Not gonna be afraid to take a part back to the shop that is wrong.

Ray

Dunno how I dropped the ball on this thread, but looks like a VERY interesting and different boat! do NOT cut it up!! That is unique!

GC, you KNOW you're all over doing a Poncho jet boat. 

The "Team SCJB" Float? I am still adamant about that. This past weekend showed we needed sumpin. Exactly why I've been putting together the parts to put Brads old Hallett together and maybe serve that purpose. Bought the pump. Got the seats (Charity auction win, I forget now what it was all about). Just need to figure out motorvation for it and build it. Where it's gonna be kept? NOT HERE! Christ I got enough of them.........

Ray

Hey Ray;

1. Gaskets look pretty bad...check mating surfaces with straight edge too.
    Firing rings on gaskets dont look cool either.

2. The one head  is more than likely cracked in that one chamber...Press Check them! Press. check block too!

For sure , as we discussed last nite, you've been taking on water/Lube problem. Get through the basic inspection first.
Just my thoughts....With any luck you will only need the basics,replace some rods,hone , re-ring,bearings,and tittie pink paint.

Yeah, the head scares me a little, but it looks worse in the pic than in person. Have to remember #3 wasn't running in the end either. They will be checked out, but those heads are NOT going back onto this. Ralph convinced me they were too rare and sought after to run them the way I run things.... If they check out, I'll sell them off to someone building a street machine who needs ported D2OE heads. Looking at aluminums right now, but I think I can get C9 heads to perform as well. Obviously, the cam is trash, but it needed something a little more anyway..

I was releived to see the bores/pistons in pretty good shape. Gives me some hope for the block. Got spare cranks and rods here, so no worries on that end of it. Probably should look into better rods than factory though. I'll get the other head off tomorrow and see where I'm at. spent over an hour trying to find my balancer puller to no avail.........musta loaned it out and it ain't back yet.........

Thanks Bro! Phone calls will not stop until this thing is alive again! 

Ray

Ray

Frank, just thought, the driveline on that pump I got from you, will THAT one work? If so use it man!! I think Tdawg's layin claim to the diverter on it anyway.....

Ray

OK, heres the latest pics. this is the affected side, 1, 2, 3, and 4. The head is in that order, left to right, the block pics right to left. I included head gasket pics as well. Probably shoulda took pics of the spark plugs, but they look as normal as they always did, just a tad on the blackish side from being a bit rich. The cylinder is #1. Exhaust valves are the only things different, but then, #3 wasn't running either......







Ray

WTF is that shit.... I thought this was the tech section? so we all could LEARN what to do or not do with our engines?? I wanna know what let go...

And you will. It should be pretty apparent once it's completely torn down and the major components go through their checks, methinks.

As it stands, it is unknown, just suspicions and speculation. Obviously, since that cam rust must have been an ongoing issue in there (Still trying to wrap my head around the cause of that part), contamination was probably a huge factor. Maintenance is another, since the boat sits for extended periods while I play around with another, I should have been fogging and "winterizing" the thing regularly.

I'm not sure anything "let go" just yet, other than the exhaust pushrod. Could just be a bunch of little things that started the day I built it. The bent intake push rod is a direct result from that. Cylinder full of burnt gasses with nowhere to go and under pressure, voila! The number three connecting rod is probably bent as well I would imagine. (#2, #6 and #5 seem to have the worst of the spun bearings)

If it hadn't been for the pushrod breaking, I wouldn'ta ever seen what was going on in there, and 1 more blast upriver last saturday my engine would have looked as bad or worse than Rivertards......

I'll keep posting ugly pics as i get a chance...........Now who's got a BBF Blower manifold laying around.....

Ray

Got you thinking too huh Dave? Welcome to my world. If it can happen, I'll be the one to find out how.......

Ray

Well that just plain sucks Ray! Does this mean that you found Waldo? Get busy on the rebuild......

Yeah it does, lol. Found why the oil pressure dropped, but I think we're investigating what caused THAT. The rust seems to be the issue here and most likely the cause. Need to figure out where and why THAT happened to fully answer the question.

I am wondering how well your rockers were adjusted, or torqued It's the rust thats getting me, hell even on the lifters

Yeah, I'm bad on that, but I had adjusted for .022" lash before the Elsinore trip in January. And even then, only 2 or three needed a lil "tweak" . Boats been out twice since. There is no torque on the rockers, only on the allen screws locking the adjusting nuts on the rollers (Solid lifters). I beleive it's 35 ft lbs, without looking.

Perplexing huh?  Yeah, the rust, Ralph even saw it run and take a couple full throttle blasts upriver a few hundred yards! Got me as well! Did NOT expect this.

Ray

Another observation..... that valley sure looks DRY

I wiped it down with shop towels before the pic, Mark. I was looking for water........   

Good eye though! But there really wasn't much oil laying around up there either......any ideas on that?

Ray

And it got worse. Minute I pulled the intake I knew I was in trouble. other than the bent pushrod ( #3 again) and broken pushrod and rocker, same cylinder, cam looks like it's been left out in the rain for months and months???    Yeah, 4 rod bearings are toast, Got some decisions to make now. Stroker? Obviously a larger cam is in order, maybe I'll fall in line with you 'uns and go roller this time. No valves are bent, pistons are good (Of course, got two more sets of the same ones here, THEY'D Survive.....  ), bores look good, a little hone maybe.

I'm guessing I had a residual intake manifold leak dripping into the engine for the rides home and weeks at a time in the garage. Reversion, possibly. This is not from a part failure, this is all started from a progessive problem with water in the engine I beleive.

But this time I think I have a better idea what is needed to be done differently on a Hot Rod Marine engine. My dumb ass put this together, and amazingly, has run and performed flawlessly until the Tom Papp deal in January. Not too shabby really for a hack that hasn't built an engine in 20 years. And at least I didn't do as much damage as Rivertard did, 







Ray

Congratultions Ken and Kim! 

Ray