651
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Holley Carb Tuning Debate
« on: November 08, 2007, 03:42:39 PM »
Have you tried to stagger jet the secondaries so the barrel over 5/7 is richer?
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653
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Holley Carb Tuning Debate
« on: November 08, 2007, 12:20:48 PM »
Didn't realize there were weep holes. yes, that would throw it off. Read your plugs :-)
654
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Holley Carb Tuning Debate
« on: November 08, 2007, 08:34:41 AM »
Unless you have some kind of individual runner manifold, a single O2 will work. The O2 sits in the header in the collector, so it gets 4 of the cylinders. Assuming you don't have a messed up carb (like one barrel doesn't flow any fuel at all), the results will be the same across the cylinders.
Modern day cars have 2 O2's, because they can adjust each cylinder on the fly and read the result. With a carb, there is no on they fly adjustment, so you get a measurement, change the carb, and go again.
I would use the exhaust you are going to run - the exhaust will change the jetting needs. Tune it for the throw away headers and it will run great - with the throw away headers.
Why can't you just put a valve inline to the header and cut out the water when tuning?
Modern day cars have 2 O2's, because they can adjust each cylinder on the fly and read the result. With a carb, there is no on they fly adjustment, so you get a measurement, change the carb, and go again.
I would use the exhaust you are going to run - the exhaust will change the jetting needs. Tune it for the throw away headers and it will run great - with the throw away headers.
Why can't you just put a valve inline to the header and cut out the water when tuning?
655
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Holley Carb Tuning Debate
« on: November 07, 2007, 06:01:40 PM »I haven't figured out how to hook up a 02 sensor and a gauge(water injected headers) so i'm flyin in the dark.
O2 sensors have only been around for a little while....read the plugs (WOT) and the vac gauge (PT), it will tell you all you need to know. For fine tuning, a GPS for top MPH (jetting) will always help.
The other way is to put an O2 sensor it, and kill off the water to that header when testing - assuming of course you are over transom, and nothing will catch on fire without the water....Once you have your mixture set, you don't need the O2 anymore.
And chromey - I've been to your house, you aren't to far away from me :-)
656
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Holley Carb Tuning Debate
« on: November 06, 2007, 06:54:58 PM »
Thanks Guys :-)
In my new boat config - I have the 2 most important gauges where I can see them.
#1 Vaccum and #2 Oil pressure. Yes. Those two. In that order. I can live without everything else.
The vaccum gauage will tell you the load the engine is under, the condition, the mixture, if a spark plug or valve is going bad, if the rings are OK, if the idle mixture is correct - etc etc etc. The best place for the vac gauge hose connection is in the intake manifold plenum. If you hook it to the PVC connection, it tends to be a hair lower. Not saying it's bad, just lower. In reality, you can hook it to ANYTHING EXCEPT the vacum advance port on the carb - you will quickly learn that you have 0 in HG at idle...
The oil pressure tells me if I need to shut the engine off or when it's time to change the bearings.
Back to the PV
When I am at part throttle, I like my A/F to be around 14.5:1
At full throttle, 12:1.
So, with enrichment on (basically when the vaccum is lower than the rated PV installed), I can jet my main jets to be perfect for full throttle and max HP. When I am at a higher in HG (and a lighter load) that same jet will be effectively smaller, and give me better mileage. Without the PV, the jet size goes up to get the correct A/F at full throttle, but there is nothing to back it off. Works fine if you are sponsored by texaco....
There are things you can play with, std / high flow PV's, primary and secondary PV's. I like my race carbs with dual powervalves, this way I can make it lean for the street, but add 20 jet sizes as soon as I tip into it. The trick is making sure that they do not open it idle, that is why you take your loaded idle reading, and drop it by 2 sizes (in a jet, you can make it like a manual because there isn't a drop in gear).
How I set up my personal 850 DP on my boat - dual 5.5 PV's, 80 primary jets, 83 secondaries, 35 pri squirter , 25 sec squirter (on a car this would be 35-37).
In my new boat config - I have the 2 most important gauges where I can see them.
#1 Vaccum and #2 Oil pressure. Yes. Those two. In that order. I can live without everything else.
The vaccum gauage will tell you the load the engine is under, the condition, the mixture, if a spark plug or valve is going bad, if the rings are OK, if the idle mixture is correct - etc etc etc. The best place for the vac gauge hose connection is in the intake manifold plenum. If you hook it to the PVC connection, it tends to be a hair lower. Not saying it's bad, just lower. In reality, you can hook it to ANYTHING EXCEPT the vacum advance port on the carb - you will quickly learn that you have 0 in HG at idle...
The oil pressure tells me if I need to shut the engine off or when it's time to change the bearings.
Back to the PV
When I am at part throttle, I like my A/F to be around 14.5:1
At full throttle, 12:1.
So, with enrichment on (basically when the vaccum is lower than the rated PV installed), I can jet my main jets to be perfect for full throttle and max HP. When I am at a higher in HG (and a lighter load) that same jet will be effectively smaller, and give me better mileage. Without the PV, the jet size goes up to get the correct A/F at full throttle, but there is nothing to back it off. Works fine if you are sponsored by texaco....
There are things you can play with, std / high flow PV's, primary and secondary PV's. I like my race carbs with dual powervalves, this way I can make it lean for the street, but add 20 jet sizes as soon as I tip into it. The trick is making sure that they do not open it idle, that is why you take your loaded idle reading, and drop it by 2 sizes (in a jet, you can make it like a manual because there isn't a drop in gear).
How I set up my personal 850 DP on my boat - dual 5.5 PV's, 80 primary jets, 83 secondaries, 35 pri squirter , 25 sec squirter (on a car this would be 35-37).
657
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Holley Carb Tuning Debate
« on: November 05, 2007, 02:15:38 PM »
If you take the PV out, you will have jet up the carb anywhere from 5-10 jet sizes to make up for it and have the curve correct. Even though the engine sees little to no load going up the RPM from a stop, there are times when you may just put around at part throttle, but high RPM. It is in those cases that you would want the engine to be leaner so you get more out of a tank.
When you hammer it, you want the fuel to make power, and that is when the PV will open and bump the jetting up.
If you were steady state or always idle or WOT like a drag car/boat, then you could ditch the PV and be good.
The PV works on load only, so if you are heavy load (like pulling a skiier out of the water) it will open and keep a lean condition from happening. It really has nothing to due with RPM, so you can't base it on this.
If you want to think of it in car tearms, judge it like a auto with a 5500 or 6K stall. There are still times you are just loafing around, and do not need a fat mixture.
When you hammer it, you want the fuel to make power, and that is when the PV will open and bump the jetting up.
If you were steady state or always idle or WOT like a drag car/boat, then you could ditch the PV and be good.
The PV works on load only, so if you are heavy load (like pulling a skiier out of the water) it will open and keep a lean condition from happening. It really has nothing to due with RPM, so you can't base it on this.
If you want to think of it in car tearms, judge it like a auto with a 5500 or 6K stall. There are still times you are just loafing around, and do not need a fat mixture.
658
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Defend your Rocker Arms !
« on: November 04, 2007, 05:20:01 PM »
Aluminum work great, lighter which helps with the mass and reliability of the valvetrain at higher RPMS. Most of them like Harland sharpes have needle bearings which free horsepower. At about 600 lbs spring pressure though, the aluminum will fail.
A guy running 900 lift cannot use an aluminum rocker due to the valve spring pressure required. A 600 lb spring will work with a solid roller until about 700 lift at 7500 rpm.
A guy running 900 lift cannot use an aluminum rocker due to the valve spring pressure required. A 600 lb spring will work with a solid roller until about 700 lift at 7500 rpm.
659
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« on: November 03, 2007, 09:22:04 AM »
Sorry, BB mopars can go 543 no issues with stock 440 block, 512 with 400 block. Sonic checked can possibly go higher. goto www.440source.com if you don't believe me. A raised cam block can get you well over 670 ci.
A 454 Chevy can only go to 496 due to the block bore config.
Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.
A 454 Chevy can only go to 496 due to the block bore config.
Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.
660
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: How much pep
« on: October 11, 2007, 05:13:27 AM »Awesome, I cant wait to find out the results. Any ideas on how a single carb tunnel ram might compare?
Tunnel rams work on the bottom end because of the long runners (modern EFI engines all have really long runners for low and mid RPM grunt).
Tunnel rams work on the mid and top becuase the runners are straight making the heads flow better than they should, and they have a huge plennum to really help on the top end.
Everytime I test a TR it picks up power everywhere.
The issue I have with a single carb TR is the fact that the outside cylinders tend to run lean, while the inside run rich. This is due to the turn the af has to make that is not present in the dual carb setup. That said, it wouldn't affect the low-mid range that much, so on a jet boat it may not be as big of an issue as it would on a drag car. The single carb TR with a Ford or HEMI port spacing would be affected more than the Chevy / OLDS spacing; and I suspect the high rpm HP numbers will not be as great but will still outperform a standard single plane (probably not the real high end jobs though).
661
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: How much pep
« on: October 10, 2007, 07:49:16 PM »
You should say bigger is not always better. Depends on the setup.
I had a 455 olds that turned 4400 RPM with a 750 vac secondary holley on a performer.
Converting to an 850 DP I was able to get 5200RPM out of it.
On my new motor,I will be directly comparing and measuring a stock dual plane, a torker, and a tunnel ram.
On those single carb manifolds, I will be comparing a 1.25 inch 4 hole and a 1.25 inch open spacer.
With the singles, I will have a 600 vac annular holley, a 750 vac, and an 850 dp.
With the tunnel ram, I have a pair of 450 CFM mechanicals.
I will take each combo and tune it for its max performance. At the end of the day I will know and have data (to post) what works the best.
I suspect the TR will smoke all the other manifold combos everywhere, with the torker 850 1.25 inch open spacer having the next most top end, and the 600 annular Dual Plane having the best mileage and holeshot.
I have my GPS and my Gtech for measurments, and those that know me on other boards, know I'll post some complete data, good or bad...
I had a 455 olds that turned 4400 RPM with a 750 vac secondary holley on a performer.
Converting to an 850 DP I was able to get 5200RPM out of it.
On my new motor,I will be directly comparing and measuring a stock dual plane, a torker, and a tunnel ram.
On those single carb manifolds, I will be comparing a 1.25 inch 4 hole and a 1.25 inch open spacer.
With the singles, I will have a 600 vac annular holley, a 750 vac, and an 850 dp.
With the tunnel ram, I have a pair of 450 CFM mechanicals.
I will take each combo and tune it for its max performance. At the end of the day I will know and have data (to post) what works the best.
I suspect the TR will smoke all the other manifold combos everywhere, with the torker 850 1.25 inch open spacer having the next most top end, and the 600 annular Dual Plane having the best mileage and holeshot.
I have my GPS and my Gtech for measurments, and those that know me on other boards, know I'll post some complete data, good or bad...
662
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: How much pep
« on: October 08, 2007, 07:13:35 PM »
Fashion over function....I guess his friends wait for him when they go out... 
663
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: How much pep
« on: October 08, 2007, 10:04:29 AM »
The more spacers you have, the higher up in the band the RPM range is. Depending on the manifold, like on the edelbrock torker, 2-3 inches of spacer makes the manifold work, where in stock form the plenum is too small.
If it's a single plane, 10 inches of plenum spacers probably *starts* the RPM range of the manifold around 7500 RPM!
A 5500-10000RPM manifold will always work well in a jet boat
You can make a dual plane work a little higher RPM by adding an open spacer. I found on my engines the peeks go up about about 200-250 RPM per 1/2 inch.
So if you have a performer, and you needed a performer RPM, throw a 1/2 to 1 inch open spacer on it. It may get you a few more MPH/RPM without spending the bucks on a new manifold.
If it's a single plane, 10 inches of plenum spacers probably *starts* the RPM range of the manifold around 7500 RPM!
A 5500-10000RPM manifold will always work well in a jet boat
You can make a dual plane work a little higher RPM by adding an open spacer. I found on my engines the peeks go up about about 200-250 RPM per 1/2 inch.
So if you have a performer, and you needed a performer RPM, throw a 1/2 to 1 inch open spacer on it. It may get you a few more MPH/RPM without spending the bucks on a new manifold.
664
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: How much pep
« on: September 24, 2007, 04:56:41 PM »
What are you looking for? More ooph out of the hole? More top speed?
For bottom end (out of the hole), then adding a 4 hole spacer under the carb, using a dual plane, a smaller carb, and or a bigger acc pump shot will all help.
For top end, an open hole spacer, bigger air cleaner / inlet / screen, bigger carb, colder air will all help.
For bottom end (out of the hole), then adding a 4 hole spacer under the carb, using a dual plane, a smaller carb, and or a bigger acc pump shot will all help.
For top end, an open hole spacer, bigger air cleaner / inlet / screen, bigger carb, colder air will all help.
665
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 460 noise
« on: September 23, 2007, 08:46:45 PM »Your gaskets probably shrank, and you were bairly touching before (or now you are listening...)
Just double up the gaskets if youwant to to do the cheap route.
Before you do that though, lay a straight edge across the rockers to make double sure the studs aren't pulling out.
666
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 460 noise
« on: September 23, 2007, 08:20:08 PM »
Your gaskets probably shrank, and you were bairly touching before (or now you are listening...)
Just double up the gaskets if youwant to to do the cheap route.
Just double up the gaskets if youwant to to do the cheap route.
667
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Compression test numbers .
« on: September 23, 2007, 10:41:53 AM »Is it that they should not be more then 10psi or is it 10% of each other? I have herd both from a multiple of diffrent people.
10-15% variance for a newly built engine (non blueprinted). That's the target anyway.
668
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Compression test numbers .
« on: September 23, 2007, 10:36:31 AM »
It's telling you that some cylinders don't have as much power. Maybe the rings are gapped differently, maybe the valves don't seal as well, maybe the that bore is a little bigger, etc. Will it matter? Probably not unless you are racing competitively.
30 PSI range is normal for a non blueprinted engine, and is probably more common than most would like to admit (at least from what I've seen). Obviously, the closer you get to being all even, the more power you make. I wouldn't consider the cylinder "dead" until it is less than 80 or so. When it is there, that indicates a problem that needs to be repaired / rebuilt. Right now, it's ok (IMHO - but you get what you pay for). If squirting oil in the cylinder doesn't help, the "leak" is valve / headgasket related.
30 PSI range is normal for a non blueprinted engine, and is probably more common than most would like to admit (at least from what I've seen). Obviously, the closer you get to being all even, the more power you make. I wouldn't consider the cylinder "dead" until it is less than 80 or so. When it is there, that indicates a problem that needs to be repaired / rebuilt. Right now, it's ok (IMHO - but you get what you pay for). If squirting oil in the cylinder doesn't help, the "leak" is valve / headgasket related.
669
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« on: September 22, 2007, 10:51:21 PM »Used parts are priced by supply and demand, there is no or very little demand for used marine mopar parts, that's one possible reason why yours were cheap. Most people that have Olds engines want something else, Ford or Chevrolet, and there's a billion of those used Olds marine parts for sale. It's one thing to get your boat's parts cheap but it needs to stay running to stay cheap. $300 for all of those parts plus the engine is a steal, for any brand and I'm sure you're very aware of that.
I know. law of supply and demand. I do think it is funny how normally the Mopar stuff is way expensive, except in the boating world . Things are turned upside down here ...
While I have your attention (hopefully) do you know the major differences between the mopar compared to the Chevrolet's and Ford's? (2 or 4 bolt mains, main cap bolt diameter's, rod bolt diameter's, do the head bolts go through/into water jackets, etc etc etc... thanks!)
Typically, Mopars are 2 bolt mains. Because they use the block itself for side support for the main caps, this is able to handle 800 HP. From there to 1200, they have side bolts that screw the side of the caps into the block (a la hemi). From 1200-2500, Indy makes a block with the side bolts, but with 1/2 inch bolts instead of 7/16ths. KB uses 9/16 inch bolts up to 3000 HP, then double side bolts beyond that. No one knows how much this can take, the top fuelers pushing well over 7000 HP don't break them (reportedly, they are at 8300 HP now!).
Both Chevy and Ford use bolts into the block, but only in one direction (up) with no side support. A 4 bolt main chevy / ford is not as strong as a 2 bolt Mopar for this reason. This is the weak area of the ford blocks, the entire assy pulls out of the block. Bob Glidden used to complain that after a run, they could change the main bearings without touching a bolt :-)
For the rods, there are either 3/8ths or 7/16th bolts for the big end, and 1.094 pin on the top. This is either a liability or an asset depending on what you want. Really the Chevy .990 pin is good enough and it is lighter, so for gas apps over 6800 RPM, the Chevy pin is the way to go. Below that, there is an advantage to the Mopar for strength. If you compare a Chevy rod to a Mopar rod, the chevy one looks a bit weak. Aftermarket is a different story, they all have 7/16th bolts, and are all set up for the Chevy pin and bearing (at least for the mopars).
Head bolts on a mopar do not go into a water jacket, and there are either 5 (wedge) or 6 (hemi) 7/16th bolts per cylinder. Aftermarket blocks can have this bumped to 1/2 inch. No real mods needed for high boost / compression / fuel like the Fords.
If you compare the crank snout between the mfg, it is easy to tell the Mopar - it's twice as big! This is one of the weak areas of the Chevy, you always hear about crank snouts being broken.
Ralph there is no doubt that your drag car's engine is SIK, that's a huge understatement... but there's more than one reason most pro drag racer's run Hemi's and not Ford's version of the Hemi.
I'm still waiting to see percentages of races won for each manufacturer...
Yes, they don't survive the horsepower, plain and simple. They come and go, as do the aftermarket blocks (arias, tfx, etc), but the Mopar design is the one that can survive (KB).
As far as the real percentages, it's easy.
TF - 100%
Funny car - 100%
TFboat - 100%
I seriously doubt Force will try to move off of what him and Coil have been winning with for 20+ years. The NHRA is a little gun shy of any other designs for the fuel classes - they hate accidents and the track getting oiled. In the non fuel ranks though, IE pro stock, it is the pontiac head design that is winning races. They make a Mopar like bottom end (except they don't make the skirts as long, helping with both windage and weight), and then throw a set of custom pontiac heads on. In the IHRA and the mountain motors, its the Fords that are the big dogs and win *everything*. In the NMRA it's those damn little motors (Ford 302 based 347's) with the big hairdryers going deep into the 6's. BTW - Ralph - That Ford HEMI is sweet.
****
Comparing factory to factory blocks (no aftermarket)
Size of stroking (CID) - Advantage Ford
Block height - Advantage Mopar
Bobweight - Advantage Chevy
Valvetrain stability - Advantage Mopar
Block Strength - Advantage Mopar
Parts availablity on the water - Advantage Chevy. (Big) Disadvantage Mopar.
Oil system - Advantage Mopar
Head CFM - Advantage Mopar
Changing the starter - Chevy's bolts point up making it difficult to pull in a jet boat, Advantage Mopar and Ford
Bore stroke CID
4.362 3.850 460
4.320 3.750 440
4.250 4.000 454
The 454 will have the biggest ooph down low where the stroke makes up for the small bore size. The irony is they have the lightest parts and should be able to rev the highest.
The 440 will make the most power up higher in the band and be able to rev highest.
The 460 splits the two but is closest to the Mopar.
Mopar has the hemi head, which flows the best. Chevy has the splaid valve heads, which are not quite a wedge, not quite a hemi. They flow well, but have an issue with runner length, as there are two different sizes so you can't optimize for any one RPM.
Ford's runners typically flow great on the intake.
*****
After it is all said and done, it is really the brand that makes you proudest that you should use. I know my Mopars take a beating and beat on everyone else. My buddy says the same thing with his fords, and another with his Chevys (except I beat them at the strip :-). If you are anywhere south of 600 horsepower, it doesn't matter and as long as we all have fun, that is what it is all about. In the old days, the Chevys, Fords, Mopars and Pontiacs ran pretty damn close to each other at the strip.
Just watch your NOS intake on the Fords so you don't remove your bottom end without tools, and make sure you Chevy guys don't overload the crank snout and change your oil regularly as that rear main gets unfiltered oil....
670
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« on: September 22, 2007, 03:28:11 PM »
Wait - wasn't someone saying here that a set of manifolds for a Chevy are 200 bucks, but an Olds versions are only 100? I just bought a set of edelbrock wet manifolds, nickson snails, marine pan, attached to a running Marine BB Mopar for 300 bucks... Wouldn't that make the Chevys more expensive to set up than the other motors?
GC - Thanks :-)
GC - Thanks :-)
671
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 425 crank in a 455
« on: September 20, 2007, 07:18:35 AM »
Olds V8
Engine Bore Stroke Cubic Ins HP CCs Bore mm Stroke mm
215 61-63 3.500 2.800 216 - 3533 88.90 71.12
260 1972-'83 3.500 3.385 261 - 4271 88.90 85.98
303 1949-53 3.750 3.438 304 - 4979 95.25 87.31
307 '80-'86 3.800 3.385 307 - 5035 96.52 85.98
324 1954-56 3.875 3.438 324 - 5317 98.43 87.31
330 '64-'67 3.938 3.385 330 - 5406 100.01 85.98
350 '68-'80 4.057 3.385 350 - 5739 103.05 85.98
360 4.116 3.385 360 - 5907 104.55 85.98
371 1957-73 4.000 3.688 371 - 6077 101.60 93.66
394 '59-'64 4.125 3.688 394 - 6463 104.78 93.66
400 '65-'67 4.000 3.975 400 - 6551 101.60 100.97
400 '68-'70 3.870 4.250 400 - 6556 98.30 107.95
403 '76-'87 4.351 3.385 403 - 6601 110.52 85.98
425 '65- '67 4.125 3.975 425 - 6967 104.78 100.97
455 '68-'76 4.125 4.250 455 - 7449 104.78 107.95
Engine Bore Stroke Cubic Ins HP CCs Bore mm Stroke mm
215 61-63 3.500 2.800 216 - 3533 88.90 71.12
260 1972-'83 3.500 3.385 261 - 4271 88.90 85.98
303 1949-53 3.750 3.438 304 - 4979 95.25 87.31
307 '80-'86 3.800 3.385 307 - 5035 96.52 85.98
324 1954-56 3.875 3.438 324 - 5317 98.43 87.31
330 '64-'67 3.938 3.385 330 - 5406 100.01 85.98
350 '68-'80 4.057 3.385 350 - 5739 103.05 85.98
360 4.116 3.385 360 - 5907 104.55 85.98
371 1957-73 4.000 3.688 371 - 6077 101.60 93.66
394 '59-'64 4.125 3.688 394 - 6463 104.78 93.66
400 '65-'67 4.000 3.975 400 - 6551 101.60 100.97
400 '68-'70 3.870 4.250 400 - 6556 98.30 107.95
403 '76-'87 4.351 3.385 403 - 6601 110.52 85.98
425 '65- '67 4.125 3.975 425 - 6967 104.78 100.97
455 '68-'76 4.125 4.250 455 - 7449 104.78 107.95
672
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Do I need to get a "marine" engine?
« on: September 20, 2007, 07:16:51 AM »
You need the pistons looser in the bore, much like a motor set up for nitrous.
The ring end gaps need to be about 2x the clearance of a normal passenger car.
This all has to do with the temps that build up inside the chamber at high load for extended periods.
The other thing is the freeze plugs, they need to be brass so they don't corrode in salt. If you are riverbound only, you may be able to get by without, however, the engine is still lacking antifreeze so there still may be corrosion issues (but it will take much longer to show up).
The ring end gaps need to be about 2x the clearance of a normal passenger car.
This all has to do with the temps that build up inside the chamber at high load for extended periods.
The other thing is the freeze plugs, they need to be brass so they don't corrode in salt. If you are riverbound only, you may be able to get by without, however, the engine is still lacking antifreeze so there still may be corrosion issues (but it will take much longer to show up).
673
WTB / Re: wtb - Boat trailer for 21 foot Big Block jet
« on: September 15, 2007, 08:25:21 PM »
Yea, we bought used, it broke, caused only $10K in damage, for some reason she isn't going for the used again...
674
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« on: September 15, 2007, 07:45:18 PM »this isnt factual, but if you think about the percent of chevy vs others
80%chev
10%ford
5%mopar
5%other
what do you think happens when you play the average.
sorry to get off topic
It depends on what finish line you're refering to:
In drag racing -
Powering John force in his Funny car Ford is well, a Mopar Hemi
In fact EVERY top fuel and Funny car is Mopar powered.
Getting into the stock ranks, it's always full of Mopars.
Drifiting- who is the champ? Oh yea he's mopar powered too.
Looking at random Top Fuel boat websites like http://topfueldragboat.com/driver.htm what's on the front - Yep a blown Mopar Hemi - same here http://www.toxicrocket.com/gallery.htm and here http://www.speedsportstopfuel.com/stats.htm .....
Where are the Mopar powered boats ? Just look for the FAST ones! :-)
Us Mopar guys are always forgotten, hell even the poll doesn't have us listed - I guess that's 'cause you only get to see the rear of the mopars so they aren't as evident...
We'll see where my Mopar stoker build takes me as I yank out the 455.
I went into the 12's in a 4800 lb 3/4 ton van powered by a 440, so I'm pretty sure they can power a boat.
As far as the tech specs - I never hear about broken cranks like the chevys have, or the broken bottom ends / blocks like the Fords. I never hear about any oiling problems below 7000 RPM either - and above that it is one oil line to fix.
Mopar's have the strongest bottom ends, and can easily stroke to 543. With an aftermarket block 630 is possible. A STOCK block and crank is good for 800 HP, with 2 bolt mains! Crossbolting the block, or better still, double crossbolting like aftermarket does, allows over 7000 HP (KB aftermarket block). The cooling system is great compared to other brands. The oil system doesn't feed the rear bearing unfiltered oil like the Chevys, and there isn't a convoluted pickup / oil pump system like in the fords.
Mopars have external oil pumps, meaning A ) the distributor is in the front where it belongs, and B)the oil pump can be swapped out with anything you have room for. No Crank interferance. No pulling the distributor during an intake swap. My oil pump fits nice and can pump 20 GPM. A swap takes a few minutes, and I don't have to crack the pan. Windage trays are easy (15 min install, doesn't touch the mains), and the oil pan doesn't have anything to do with the crank seal. If you need a mondo oil system for sustained high RPM, one external -16 line, 7 inches long straight to the external pump, will take care of all the oiling needs.
When you pull the distributor, the gear stays with the intermediate shaft - meaning the disti can only go back in two ways. No way to be off a tooth, you are either 180 out or right on. Neither Ford or GM can say that.
Water systems , oil, and intake is separated. You can break or modify one without touching the other.
Shaft mounted rockers are stronger than the stud mounted ones, doing a 600 lbs spring is really no big deal.
The short mopar bigblock is taller than the TALL race chevy block. Stock they can go bigger. Rod ratio is favored to the Mopar, esp whe the 440 crank is put into the shorter block (400), 1.8:1
The drawbacks are the pistons are heavy - so you swap it out for chevy .990 pins and 7.1 inch rods, and with a stoker crank and short pistons, and suddenly your combo has less bobweight than a smallblock. Also, the short valve was a drawback, but now that so many people are making heads, they are all long valve and flow a ton of air.
The bore size for the BB Mopar is 4.340 in the 400, so with max overbore, you are at 4.4! Talk about unshrouding the valve!
They are also Nitrous Oxide friendly - even a cast piston 440 can handle a 175 shot time after time.
In reality, I like anything that goes fast, so if that means taking my strong Mopar block and Crank, putting Chevy rods and pins and Ford Pistons to go fast - I'm all for it. I'm sure all of you will have a chance to show me how much faster your Chevys and Fords are next year at the river :-)
Bore and stroke baby - give me as much as I can get....
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WTB / Re: wtb - Boat trailer for 21 foot Big Block jet
« on: September 13, 2007, 06:18:55 PM »
Just going to buy a new one.