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Topics - Knightnight

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1. Intended use - 18ft light Jet Boat

2. Vehicle info (weight/gearing/trans) - 900lb jet boat hull + 1000lbs engine, fluids, gear, direct drive to jet pump (pto adapter to 1310 spicer u-joint for jet pump shaft). Jet pump is a berkeley 12JE with an AA impeller and inducer freshly rebuilt.

3. Fuel desired to use ( racing gas/av gas/E-85/methonal/pumpgas(include octane available)) - pump 93 octane

4. Parts you already have:

460 that I believe is mostly factory spec (rated at 320hp from the factory (hardin marine 460) but has a re-manufactured stamp on the side so not sure of any of the specs still apply). Never really built an engine from the bottom up but know enough to bolt things together and have enough tools I think I could build one. I rather not have to pay or rely on a machine shop though.
It is currently running but has a tick on 1-4 cylinder bank somewhere. I plan to run a leak test tonight to maybe pinpoint which cylinder. It is down on power. I am guessing stuck lifter?

    Intake: EB Performer 460 Intake Manifold dual pane non EGR #2166
    Carb: Quick-fuel marine carb - secondary vacuum (600CFM, yes I know maybe a tad undersized but maybe not given low compression spec of engine 8.35:1)
    Fuel pump: Mechanical holley 110gph
    Distributor: Pertronix III marine - mechanical advance only. Currently running 10 degree advance at idle 900rpm, 32 all in at 3200rpm.
    Block: 2 bolt main (1970s) externally balanced (see picture)
    Crank: 3YA, externally balanced (see picture)
    Pistons: I believe factory truck cast pistons (see picture)
    Rods: Factory rods I believe (see picture)
    Heads: Not entirely sure. I linked a video believe but I guess D3s but I don't see any casting mark on them. Also I can't tell if the exhaust ports have been ported, some shown the smog bulge slightly and some are flat? (see video/picture)
    Valve Train: Stock I believe but I see a red damper inside the springs I think? (see video/picture)
    Cam: No idea specs or type (if I was to swap the cam I would like to go hydrualic roller cam? given flat tappet issues and lifter quality control, the new stuff won't break in properly from what I have been reading) (see picture but probably can't tell much)
    Timing Set: Stock I think (see picture)
    Oil Pump: Factory front sump with 5 quart pan. I run an oil temp sensor in it given pan size. Don't have the money for a large 10 qt baffled/rear sump one. Also the engine runes relatively cool when under power given open loop cooling with no T-stat. At idle it will get around 170F (water temp) but quickly drop as soon as lake water is circulated through the engine from the jet pump. I haven't really seen oil temp rise above 140F. There is also some lake water splashing around in the bildge area and the pan sits about 1 inches above the bottom of the boat so I guess some of the lake water is also cooling the pan slightly. I run a 10-40W oil per the factory manual but maybe this is too heavy weight given the rebuild done in the past, no idea because I don't know piston/cam specs or anything.
    Exhaust: Marine wet jacketed risers thru transom in an enclosed hatch (aftermarket water jacketed headers aren't really an option $$$$$, maybe logs + snails but might reduce power further but would provide better packaging vs the risers and allow larger valve covers) (see picture)
    Valve Cover: Stamped steel (I hate them, such a pain to seal with steel core gaskets even taping the bolt holes flush), I can't run larger valve covers except the very rare/expensive M/T Ford or Holley ones due to exhaust manifold clearance. (see picture)


5. Proposed Budget - Like $500-1K? Basically just want to spruce it up to around 400hp with a peak rpm of around 4700-5000rpm, reliable lake boat on pump gas. There are machine shops around me but wait time is very long and pricing I would suspect is crazy so rather just be able to bolt things together if i can.

6. Location this may help to find a good machine shop - Raleigh NC Area


Heads video identify?

2
Engines / Engine Parts For Sale / ISO Holley Ford 460 Fuel pump
« on: May 14, 2022, 11:39:09 PM »
Looking for a Holley Ford 460 Fuel pump with dump valve. Holley quit making this particular one for enclosed hatches. Model 712-460-11/13. Looks like attached except for ford 460.

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I found this thread but need further clarity on the exact process having never pulled the engine or tried to align drive shafts.
https://www.socaljetboats.com/engine-mechanical-electrical/converting-bbc-from-3pt-to-4pt-mounts/

I need to replace my driveshaft and figured I might as well convert to 4 point mount with the engine out for ease of use disconnecting drive shaft when running out of water and more rigidity with more power upgrades down the road. I believe I have existing center mounts so I should be able to mount everything without having to worry about drive-line angle changes.

steps:
- mount front mounts to block and drill holes into stringer with engine still installed with 3 point mount
- pull engine
- remove 3 pt bell housing
- install 4 point rear mount on engine block
- put engine back in and attach via 4 pt front mount and existing old center mounts
- mark rear 4 point stringer holes and drill stringer
- pull engine again, remove old center mounts and plug old center stringer holes (best method to fill holes)?
- install engine in new 4 point mounts




4
Random Boat Parts For Sale / WTB: Berkeley jet rebuild part list
« on: April 06, 2022, 06:56:05 AM »
- New/newish aluminum AA impeller
- Inducer
- Drive shaft with inducer adapter (I will probably just buy new)
- Bowl bearing and seal install tool
- Impeller puller tool
- If you have new bowl seals/bushings/thrust bearing/drive shaft sleeve/shouldered wear ring I will take those but probably just easier for me to buy new direct.

I will only pay via paypal (no friends and family). I am located on east coast (NC).

5
Jet Pumps / Bad bearings?
« on: April 03, 2022, 04:25:53 PM »


First time taking it out this season. Ran fine for first 20 minutes. Cruising at about 40mph and suddenly heard the metal rattling sounding like coming from drive shift or pump.

If you had to guess what do you think it is?

Edit: I instead the impeller and it is cracked (original aluminum one for 12JE "A", not sure diameter size?) and pitted, which appears to be caused by cavitation which makes sense. I am running what I believe is a mostly stock ford 460 but I can pretty easily spin 5000rpm which from graphs appears these aluminum impellers are not rated for it. Add in some cavitation, high rpm, boil some water and high pressure and I see it cracking and breaking apart like it did. The front lip appears to be completed shredded off...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FID77ItxDPA

I haven't pulled the impeller out (I assume I use a gear puller to pull it past the key ring?) but I can guess the wear ring is toast. Hopefully not the actual housing...

Also I can pull on the drive shaft and it has some back and forward play (maybe a tad excessive about ~1/8"). Is this normal? There is not side to side movement and I cant rotate it of course while it is connected to the engine. Signs of failed thrust bearing though I believe which could have caused the impeller imbalance/eating itself.



Also you can see the bowl seal is shot...I used the boat a few times last season no issue, guess a grenade waiting to happen first time out this year.

How should I inspect the u-joints also?



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Trailers / Chances a bass boat trailer fits a 18ft jet boat?
« on: March 11, 2022, 10:31:54 PM »
Any chance a bass boat (nitro z-7 18' 8" boat) trailer (made by tracker marine) would fit a 18ft jet boat?

Profile of jet boat

https://sacramentoboatrepair.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/keaton-boat-1024x683.jpg

Profile of bass boat
https://www.topspeed.com/boats/nitro/2015-nitro-z-7-ar166590.html

Trailer:







7
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / is there a better steering linkage setup?
« on: November 13, 2021, 06:04:41 AM »
Any thoughts on a better steering linkage setup? My bolt shifts sometimes under heavy load and I lose steering input. I tried tightening it down,etc but the bar shifts limiting my range of steering.


8
Projects / 84' Keaton 18-J
« on: October 06, 2021, 11:40:51 AM »
First up, thank you everyone for your help so far, I really appreciate it.

Boat: 1984 Jack Keaton 18-J
Engine: Ford Hardin Marine 460 (7.5L)
Pump: Berkeley 12JE with place diverter

Backstory:
My father-in-law purchased this boat new in 1984 while living out in California. He has had it ever since for rec skiing/boating purposes. He is now retiring to FL coast and the boat is not a salt-water boat. He has graciously given the boat to the my brother-in-law and me. When I received the boat (2020) it had 290 hours total. My father-in-law indicated the engine was rebuilt about ~50hrs ago (unknown specs of internals/changes/etc though) as one year he forgot to winterize and ice caused internal damage. After the rebuilt, he used it for a year or so and then the boat sat for 7-8 years as the kids went off to college.

Today:
Thus here we are today where I am trying to get the boat back into run-able shape to enjoy once again as my wife and her siblings once did. I have never worked with a large carb before, distributors/timing, any big block engine, or any real jet pump besides jet-skis. There isn't that much data on these small batch boats in terms of diagrams/etc but from reading on here it seems most of the boats of this era were relatively the same which has helped a lot. The name of the game in terms of trying to get this boat back operationally reliable has been see if anything is salvage/rebuild able. Unfortunately almost everything so far has been replace with new (which can be hard to find replacement marine rated parts for such old engines/boat) which I guess is given on something almost 40 years old...


Engine:
Ford 460, I have no idea what was replaced during the rebuild, cam size, etc. For all intents and purposes I am assuming stock hardin marine 460 rated at 320hp at 4600 rpm (8.35:1 compression). The engine is in a enclosed engine bay with through transom exhaust, so no large blowers/open air headers/etc are in the future. This is mostly just a rec ski boat. Intake is a edlebrock dual-plane (not sure if factory or not), exhaust is factory.

Carb:
I went with a Quick-fuel M-600 CFM (4160 Holley basically with vacuum secondaries). When I received the boat it had a Holley 670 4150 street avenger carb. You can guess how well they lasted in the elements and from sitting. I at first was thinking I would just rebuild it and add some J-Tubes but the metering blocks were cracked and the body had internal cracks. Some might argue the 600 CFM is a little small but I plan on keeping the 460 mostly stock and at only 80% efficiency at 5000 rpm which most calculators suggest ~570CFM, 600CFM seemed fine. I am still learning all the tuning dynamics, luckily the quick fuel make is a little bit easier than stock holleys.

Ignition:
It had the original distributor on it which had a pertronix ignitor on it that replaced points at some point but I realized later the shaft, bushings, springs (unknown specs) were worn and decided to just buy a new one. I went with a pertronix 3 distributor which also a rev limiter to help with any over-reving if air-borne. Currently running 12 degree at idle (~950 RPM) and (12+20) mechanical advance only all in 32 degrees at 3000 rpm. I may try to push this to 34 degrees. Surprisingly the manual says to run 40 degrees full advance at 4000rpm but that was during leaded gasoline days and I am afraid gasoline these days isn't up to same standards and would ping at that much advance. I replaced plugs and wires of course, gapped them to .045", factory spec is .035" but distributor says I could gap them +.010" higher. Seems to be running fine.

Fuel Delivery: I was able to run the boat fine on a water hose on the trailer, took the boat out for its first maiden voyage in 7 years, boat ran like crap. Come to realize the factory molded body in fiber glass tank was leaking and had a ton of crude/water. Luckily I put a on a new fuel-water separator and some in-line filters which minimize crud to the new carb...I did end up taking new carb apart to clean it out and replace some gaskets as safe measure. I ended up having my father-in-law friend custom fab a new aluminum 27 gallon fuel tank (original was 30 gallon). Once I installed the new aluminum tank (I used composite anchor ports to hold it in place rather than fiberglassing it back in), replaced fuel lines (3/8 A-1), new fuel gauge/sending unit, filters. Still running original carter mechanical pump, seems alright maybe a tad weak. Currently looking to find a replacement. At idle PSI is not steady but bounces between 3-5PSI, at rev, PSI reads about ~5.7 PSI.

Pump:
I am still running the original A impeller pump 12JE, I have no idea if it has been rebuilt or any service work besides fluids. I replaced the bowl fluid and some of the bowl seals but I haven't dug deeper into the pump. The impeller seemed to look fine with no major gouges or anything. I did install a new place diverter with hydraulic controls and a large rudder for low speed maneuverability and to assist with skiers who are more likely to pull the back end around without one. I modified the place diverter hydraulic controls to use two relays instead of their aftermarket diode kit which seems allows me to move the pump quick with up/down steering wheel mounted control.


I have been able to hit 5000rpm which seems a little high for a stock engine (I say this because horsepower chart for A impeller at 5000 rpms is like ~370hp) but I don't notice any cavitation. I was able to hit 65mph (GPS) at 5000rpm (I verified original tach is accurate with a digital backup tach also). I didn't really expect to hit 5000rpm so maybe engine isn't stock or pump tolerances are slightly loose.

Body: Replaced steering, throttle, and bucket cable. New steering wheel, new rear-view mirror. The floor was rotted and foam was water logged. I ended up having a local shop rip out the main floor section, that stringer section and floor replaced with composite and re-foamed. Cutting out the molded in fiberglass tank I did myself and a even a little bit of fiberglass work attaching composite anchor points for the new fuel tank. I was surprised to find the molded in fiberglass tank was literally part of the body, not extra liner or anything...Overall the paint is original and okay shape (lots of heat/spider cracks but she looks pretty good from 10 feet away), I may vinyl wrap the boat at some point vs cost of new gel-coat. Back bench needs re-upholstered in one spot but for now the seats are good enough. I did rip out the original carpet and plan to replace with new carpet once I get all the mechanicals in check, cosmetics last of course. This boat came with a factory pump cover that also serves as re-boarding step. The factory cover didn't fit the new diverter linkage/support so I made some minor cuts/modifications to keep it still usable. Last I re-wired almost everything, added some usb charging ports, fuse block, new bilge, blower motor, and replaced all the lights with leds.

I know I wrote a book, but just wanted to share some of my experiences as a noob and first-time doing a lot of this. Pics below




9
I have a mechanical carter 0-2208 fuel pump but seems to be weak (almost 40 years old at this point) for a ford 7.5L (460).

I am looking for a marine rated replacement one but I can't find one.

Holley used to make 712-460-11/13 ones but they arent made anymore.
Some people on mer-cruiser said a Airtex 60932 would work but arent made anymore either.

The pump needs the dump valve to the air/flame arrestor as my engine is enclosed for safety purposes. Holley marine rated is 12-460-11 but not made for enclosed engine spaces as it doesn't have the dump value if the diaphragm ruptures.

I can't find rebuild kits either for it.

I contacted Carter and tech said carter M6696 was the replacement one for Carter 0-2208 but not sure if the cam lever is compatible with the ford 460 as the specs only show supporting up for a Ford 5.8L. They said their engineers would check and validate it to see if is compatible with a ford 460.

I don't really want to go electric.

10
I am getting some off idle hesitation under heavy throttle which I believe is due to the accelerator pump not engaging properly.

I checked the instructions for how to adjust the spring but my accelerator arm lever has no pressure to apply upwards. The carb is new and I checked the diaphragm and saw no cracks/tears/rips.

Any suggestions. If I remove the slack between the arm and the throttle cam lever, the pump is close to bottom out already. The accelerator arm basically doesn't push back.

Edit: Figured it out, the diaphragm is missing the internal return spring from the factory...



11
I noticed I am seeing a little of bit of white smoke/mist from the through transom exhaust, mostly at idle and low RPM. I don't have a thermostat or pressure regulator for my exhaust risers. I guess what is happening is at idle some water is getting through the exhaust risers slightly and not enough exhaust pressure to keep it all out? What is the typical solution? I don't really notice the white smoke/mist when on land running on a hose. There is some water coming out of exhaust when running on a hose of course.

Of course my temperatures are all over the place since I don't have thermostat depending on lake temp/RPM/duration. Running 8 degrees at ~850 rpm, 32 (8+24 from mechanical) degrees all in at 3500rpm ford 460 packajet.

The smoke I am talking about is this right in the beginning like in this vid.


Maybe it just because it is a carb with no emissions? I just want to make sure I am not going to cause hydro lock or other issues down the road.

12
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / PMGR Ford 460 Starter CCW?
« on: August 22, 2021, 09:52:00 AM »
My old starter gave out and looking to replace it with new one, possibly a PMGR (perma magnet one). I believe it needs to be counter clock wise, given the bevel on the left when the starter is facing up right.

Ford 460, starter has 2 mounting bolts, starter cone faces the bow, top mounted, 9 teeth on the starter sprocket.

Anyone link a replacement one that isn't going to break the bank?

13
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / 460 alternator bracket install
« on: July 15, 2021, 01:03:49 PM »
I know this should be easy but I can't figure out how these alternator universal brackets are supposed to go on the 460.

I don't see where to mount the adjustment bracket.

14
Interior / Interior floor options?
« on: April 28, 2021, 06:28:36 AM »
Have bare fiberglass right now on the floor.

Trying to decide what material and attachment method to use for flooring of boat?

1. Should I put down some type of deck paint first over the fiberglass regardless of floor covering material? If so, any recommendations on deck paint?

2. Mostly lake boat, I want to minimize having to constantly remove whatever floor covering after each day on the lake but I do want it to be removable occasionally for winter-lay up or really dirty days. Ideally I would just wash out the floor interior after each lake day with a hose and not have to remove the floor material except occasionally.

3. I have been leaning towards snap in marine carpet (a little concerned about water leaking around the snaps, maybe I could use velcro or magnets with 3m tape/suction without having to permanently install snaps into the hull?) Other options I have been looking at are seadek (EVA foam) or duradek (vinyl) floor coverings?





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Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Recommend a distributor?
« on: April 08, 2021, 04:28:40 AM »
I have a prestolite d3jl-1200g distributor on a ford 460. It is currently wired from distributor to ignition coil to a ballast resistor. Looking to replace it with newer unit that has male prongs and is updated (non-worn out advance springs/etc). Finding parts for the old distributor is rather difficult. Ideally looking to spend around $300 ish for a new distributor? Mechanical advance, marine rated of course.

16
Jet Pumps / Trim gauge for place diverter?
« on: March 24, 2021, 05:50:49 AM »
I have a new hydraulic place diverter and was interested in possibly installing a trim gauge for it. I read through some old posts on here from 2010 about the hydraulic PD having a potentiometer that you can somehow tap into on the hydraulic pump and use a standard trim gauge vs the expensive pre-made/external kit sold on CP/berkely.

Is this possible, if so how (pictures)?

17
I have some stock chrome plated valve covers that are rusting. I would like to replace with them aluminum ones for the ford 460. My concern is the clearance between the exhaust risers and the valve covers per pictures. The stock ones are sort of triangle shape. Most the ones I have seen online are tall squares which I think will interfere with the exhaust risers.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vax8iYEQ93zx3P6J6

Can someone please recommend some aluminum valve covers that you think would fit?

18
Jet Pumps / Need advice on diverter for 12JE
« on: March 12, 2021, 06:47:28 AM »
I want to install trim kit for my 12JE. I have been looking at the place diverters but all seem to have cables above the water line. This is a rec boat, not a race boat.18ft Jack Keaton.

1. Is there a diverter I can install that has cables below the water line, in addition somehow below my swim platform/jet cover? My boat has a swim platform cover that sites directly over top of the pump. I am not sure if any diverter would be compatible. You can see from the link my steering and reverse cable mounts are mounted low on the bottom rear transom. I would like to run the hydraulic trim control lines on the left rear bottom transom. Could I somehow use the existing lower right rear reverse cable hole with  place diverters?

2. Also do the diverters include a rudder or can I keep the one I have?

https://www.berkeleyjet.com/t-Berkeley-Jet-Pump-Identification-Guide.aspx

It has a swim platform cover like this:
https://sacramentoboatrepair.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/keaton-boat-jet-drive-cover-300x200.jpg

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Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Help with fuse block replacement
« on: December 14, 2020, 10:21:38 AM »
nvm.

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