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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #275 on: November 01, 2008, 06:20:46 PM »
wow :o sorry to hear this >:( what did you do on break in? anyway here is the link
http://www.camresearchcorp.com/
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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #276 on: November 01, 2008, 06:44:07 PM »
Thanks Ralph, we ran it for 30 min @ 2200 - 2500 rpm's. Should have pulled the valve covers after break in to check valve adj's. but I really wasn't expecting any problems.  Especially having added 4 bottles of break in oil. It might take awhile to get this thing back together. Work has really slowed up for us this last month. I'm kind of tapped out and really bummed out, hide the guns. Maybe I need to go beat the wife, lock the kids in the closet, and kick the dog, that might lift my sprits. I guess part of the frustation is that I am not a mechanic and this is totally out of my field.
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #277 on: November 01, 2008, 07:22:44 PM »
i dont see that you used a light valve spring or pulled the inner spring out of the existing springs, hmm, im not a chevy guy but i got some micrometers you can use and am willing to come over to help or support the effort
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

povertyjet

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #278 on: November 02, 2008, 07:15:32 AM »
Hi Ron,
New to SCJB.  This is by far one of the nicest boats and best start-to-finish threads here.  Did you determine that the cam had lost a lobe?  Did you pull the inner spring(s) out during break in?  Seems like I hear more and more about new cams going flat during break in or shortly thereafter...boats and cars alike.

Also your attention to detail is amazing.  What inspired you to upholster the trailer steps?

thx
p-jet
  • Boat #1: '73 Kona
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[smg id=6256]
I'll keep my freedom, my money and my guns...you keep the "change"
U.S. out of the United Nations, support HR2202, reinstate prop 187, waterboard all of them!!!

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #279 on: November 02, 2008, 08:37:02 AM »
i dont see that you used a light valve spring or pulled the inner spring out of the existing springs, hmm, im not a chevy guy but i got some micrometers you can use and am willing to come over to help or support the effort

 Your right Ralph, inner springs were not pulled. It never crossed my mind, but now that you mention it, I recall it being discussed here on the boards. So do you pull them only for break in, or take a couple of easy laps around the lake too? If I send the cam out for the break in, I shound be able to leave the inner springs in right? Thanks for the offer, you are very generuos person and I appreciate your advise and respect your opinion.
Hi Ron,
New to SCJB.  This is by far one of the nicest boats and best start-to-finish threads here.  Did you determine that the cam had lost a lobe?  Did you pull the inner spring(s) out during break in?  Seems like I hear more and more about new cams going flat during break in or shortly thereafter...boats and cars alike.

Also your attention to detail is amazing.  What inspired you to upholster the trailer steps?

thx
p-jet
Thanks PJ, these Allen trailers originally came with upholsered steps. You either hate them or accept them, I dont think anyone loves them. Someday I wound like to have some custom cnc'd steps made up, but for now they are tuck and roll baby. As far as the cam goes I pulled the valve cover off the right side and found the rocker at the rear has a huge amount of play. Its an exhaust valve I think, which would explain all the blow by that was coming out of the breather.
I'm heading out to the garage now to pull the motor.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 12:14:24 PM by 76 Bonneville »
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #280 on: November 02, 2008, 09:00:56 AM »
this is what i do, i send the cam to have it broken in then, install cam and pull inner springs add the comp cams break in additive with rottella 30wt oil. run the motor as you have done, change oil to vr 20/50 with more break in additive, install inner springs and run it.

i would pull the intake and cut the oil filter open for inspection before i pulled the motor. the rocker may have just  backed off.
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #281 on: November 02, 2008, 09:48:15 AM »
I run a FilterMag, big chrome magnet on the filter, you'd be shocked at the shit you can pull out of your oil, especialy on a new one.
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'82 Sanger Bubble deck, Blown 454....V-drive

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #282 on: November 02, 2008, 11:28:36 AM »
Motors already out, theres no doubt of there being a problem. Quite a bit of metal shavings sitting on the top of the heads. Besides some dumbass thought it would look cool to have orange gelcoat in the bilge area. Now that dumbass has to keep it clean.
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KonaCole

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #283 on: November 03, 2008, 06:47:09 AM »
I feel for you man, I had the same shit happen to me last spring.  Mine packed the filter off and went into bypass and trashed the bearings during break in.  I shut mine down after it shot the first duck.
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I didn't do it... ok, it was me.

FORKEDUP

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #284 on: November 03, 2008, 07:34:00 AM »
sorry to hear about the problems, your boat turned out bitchen, you will have it fixed and back on the water in no time i am sure ;)
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BEAUTY IS ONLY A LIGHT SWITCH AWAY
26' kachina force 496bbc
19' eliminator daytona 496bbc (still in my heart)
21 Commander, blown 454, berk pump.

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #285 on: November 04, 2008, 01:37:41 PM »
Just pulled the intake. No metal shavings and the cam looks fine. Check out this push rod, there's a 1/4" of it ground away. Thats why there were shavings only in that corner of the motor. What would cause this? 
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wizard612

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #286 on: November 04, 2008, 01:53:06 PM »
It's those damn push-rod beavers!!!  Was it the lifter or the rocker end? I'm wondering if you have a cracked or missing cup in ether one.  Seams to be nicely machined. I would say rocker cup is cracked since gunk was in the head.
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76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #287 on: November 04, 2008, 02:15:41 PM »
Sorry, should have been more specific. It was the rocker end and we put in brand new Crane Gold's.
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #288 on: November 04, 2008, 05:49:48 PM »
no oil ??? but that would mean the lifter wasn't getting it either (i think ???) can you prime the oil pump with a drill and see if its getting oil
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #289 on: November 04, 2008, 05:53:26 PM »
Sorry, should have been more specific. It was the rocker end and we put in brand new Crane Gold's.
Could have been adjusted too tight .

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #290 on: November 04, 2008, 06:03:08 PM »
Could have been adjusted too tight .

-beerjet-
now thats too damn easy ;)
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #291 on: November 04, 2008, 06:09:20 PM »
I tend to agree with Ralph. need to check and see if your getting oil in the oil galley in that lifter bore ;)
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #292 on: November 04, 2008, 06:54:30 PM »
Ralph, put a drill to it like you suggested and its getting oil.  Omar may be correct. I never checked the rocker clearances after I got it back from the machine shop. If anyone else has a senero dont be shy.
                                                                                               Thanks Ron
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76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #293 on: November 04, 2008, 08:35:27 PM »
Hey Ron where did you see the oil coming out ???  in the lifter bore ???
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #294 on: November 04, 2008, 08:42:03 PM »
Weird, my post didn't stick, Is there some scarring on the shaft of the pushrod at the guide plate?, could be a severe alignment issue...Also, there are two different length pushrods in a BBC (just an FYI), it seems like the lifter or the pushrod have a restriction, sure a lot of rust...could it be a bad rocker (rusty)?

That's a goofy failure.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #295 on: November 04, 2008, 09:08:53 PM »
Hey Ron where did you see the oil coming out ???  in the lifter bore ???
I put the lifter back in before I ran the drill on it. Oil came right thru the lifter. With out the lifter in place it looked like good amount of oil flow.
Weird, my post didn't stick, Is there some scarring on the shaft of the pushrod at the guide plate?, could be a severe alignment issue...Also, there are two different length pushrods in a BBC (just an FYI), it seems like the lifter or the pushrod have a restriction, sure a lot of rust...could it be a bad rocker (rusty)?

That's a goofy failure.

GT
The push rods seem to run thru the guide plates in that last inch or so that is apparently hardened. They used the old push rods, which surprised me. Especially after spending $300.00 on rockers. In the pics the one that looks like it is scared, in reality looks like sharpie marks, and the one with the rust you cant even feel it, its more like it etch. I stiill dont understand why they used the old push rods with everything else being new. Does this mean I need a 1 new rocker / push rod (which I'll buy a set) and 1 lifter.
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76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #296 on: November 04, 2008, 09:12:20 PM »
Is surprising that they didnt put new pushrods with the new lifters and rockers  :screwy:
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #297 on: November 04, 2008, 09:18:41 PM »
The only thing that would bother me is that ya have all that metal floating through the engine and bearings >:(  Could just kill the life of your engine. What kind of warranty did ya get if any ???  Just my .o2 Ron
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #298 on: November 04, 2008, 09:22:05 PM »
I put the lifter back in before I ran the drill on it. Oil came right thru the lifter. With out the lifter in place it looked like good amount of oil flow. The push rods seem to run thru the guide plates in that last inch or so that is apparently hardened. They used the old push rods, which surprised me. Especially after spending $300.00 on rockers. In the pics the one that looks like it is scared, in reality looks like sharpie marks, and the one with the rust you cant even feel it, its more like it etch. I stiill dont understand why they used the old push rods with everything else being new. Does this mean I need a 1 new rocker / push rod (which I'll buy a set) and 1 lifter.

I  don't know if I would change the lifter if the lifter and cam look OK, Cams don't like that sort of thing...just my opinion, I have seen pushrods actually punch through a rocker, but not just give up like that, it would seem there either was no oil flow like I think Ralph said, or the pushrod was not rotating properly, I would love to see the rocker dimple, is it tore up? Maybe a binding rocker button (slot too short and bottoming out) I though I remember this thing having some valve train bling, but can't remember. Never rule out defective stuff.....If there is a possibility of metal shavings going through the engine at all, pull it all the way down, that metal is extremely hard and will tear up anything it comes in contact with, also when it goes back together when it is completed, install a pan magnet to catch the rest....


Good luck man, that sucks, I hate doing stuff twice more than anything..... :banghead:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

76 Bonneville

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 19' Rogers Project
« Reply #299 on: November 04, 2008, 09:43:43 PM »
I'll go talk to the builder this week. I'm just trying to get as much info as possible before i see him. He's a good guy, I've done cabinet work at his house a couple of times and this was a trade deal.
The only difference between the cup in this rocker and the others is its shinier. It feels the same as the others when you put the rod tip in it, but i'd be afraid to use it. The lifter has some dings around the cup but didnt get the snap ring and doesn't seem to affect the cup surface.
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