SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Projects => Topic started by: 455 RatJet on August 17, 2020, 11:21:28 AM

Title: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 17, 2020, 11:21:28 AM

Hello Jet Boat Fans,

I am new to the forum.  I'm hoping to get some help with my problem child.  This boat has been my never ending project.  I applied mostly new gel coat (except the deck flake), new wiring, underwater led lights, floor, stringers, reconditioned all aluminum and polished, and started on the interior. 

Before I can fix the interior I need to get my mechanicals sorted.  The motor is the original 1976 Olds 455-4 Berkeley Pack-a-Jet.  I've done a cosmetic restoration on the engine, installed a new Edelbrock Performer intake, Pertronics marine HEI disti, and polished the sand cast Berkeley logs.

My problems with this engine are many.  I'll start with intake manifold sealing issues first.  I am using Mondello gaskets, heat riser block off plates, Mondello valley tray, and Street Demon 750 carb (converted to marine).  My problem is getting the front and back of the block to seal with the manifold.  Using these gaskets I am seeing about a 1/4" gap between the top of the front/back of the block and the bottom of the intake.  I thought I had a really thick bead of Ultra Black RTV there.  At idle it was fine.  When I cruised and did a couple 40-50 mph bursts it leaked lots of oil all over the front and back of the motor.  I was having this same problem, although not as bad, with the orig intake manifold too.  I am not using gaskets at the front/back of the block.

Any tips on a leak free install would be greatly appreciated. 

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 17, 2020, 12:10:02 PM

You may have to use a gasket and silicone together.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: midwestjet on August 17, 2020, 02:31:08 PM

What type of silicone? I have always had good luck with the “Right Stuff” by permatex. Also I will put some dimples in the block and Intake with a center punch so the silicone has something to grip to and make sure the surface is clean with acetone or brake parts cleaner. Let it set up for 24hours before starting engine, never had an issue with leaking at end rails.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 17, 2020, 02:38:38 PM

I used Felpro cork/rubber gaskets. Tacked them to the block using a high quality gasket cement. Took a second set of gaskets laid them on too and set the intake on them over night. Removed the second gaskets from the process and used a layer of black RTV on top of the original cork going heavy at the corners as usual. Set the intake in without bolting down for about an hour. Then torqued it down. No leaks.
 on them over night


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 76Mantra455 on August 17, 2020, 10:54:24 PM

Quote from: 455 RatJet on August 17, 2020, 11:21:28 AM

Hello Jet Boat Fans,

I am new to the forum.  I'm hoping to get some help with my problem child.  This boat has been my never ending project.  I applied mostly new gel coat (except the deck flake), new wiring, underwater led lights, floor, stringers, reconditioned all aluminum and polished, and started on the interior. 

Before I can fix the interior I need to get my mechanicals sorted.  The motor is the original 1976 Olds 455-4 Berkeley Pack-a-Jet.  I've done a cosmetic restoration on the engine, installed a new Edelbrock Performer intake, Pertronics marine HEI disti, and polished the sand cast Berkeley logs.

My problems with this engine are many.  I'll start with intake manifold sealing issues first.  I am using Mondello gaskets, heat riser block off plates, Mondello valley tray, and Street Demon 750 carb (converted to marine).  My problem is getting the front and back of the block to seal with the manifold.  Using these gaskets I am seeing about a 1/4" gap between the top of the front/back of the block and the bottom of the intake.  I thought I had a really thick bead of Ultra Black RTV there.  At idle it was fine.  When I cruised and did a couple 40-50 mph bursts it leaked lots of oil all over the front and back of the motor.  I was having this same problem, although not as bad, with the orig intake manifold too.  I am not using gaskets at the front/back of the block.

Any tips on a leak free install would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the site and beautiful float...i also have a 455 olds and had the same problem...had and have the same gasket set-up....i tacked the intake gaskets to the heads...set the intake manifold on i have a rpm air gap....measured the gap from the block to the manifold.....i multiply 1.5 the gap let it sit for about a hour and to tack up...then sat the intake manifold on the block/ heads and finger tightened then manifold bolts...then after 24 hours/ next day i torqued them to 25 lbs and havent had a problem since....hope this helps

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 18, 2020, 05:34:41 AM

Thanks for the replies and recommendations. I was using Permatex Ultra Black RTV.  The RTV seems to settle a bit so, in the end, it is making intermittent contact across the front and back of the manifold bottom.  I've seen the Permatex Right Stuff recommendation before but did not choose because the package says 1 min tack time.  I was thinking this would be too quick since I work slow.  I was trying to get everything set while the RTV was still wet. 

My approach seems totally wrong.  From what I am hearing here I need to let the RTV set up a bit before installing the manifold.  Then, only finger tighten for additional cure before torquing down.  The concept seems to be to get a compression seal vs. a chemical seel.  Have I got this right now?

My process would be:
- Set heat block off plates with some RTV
- Set intake gaskets with RTV both sides around all ports
- Add the Right Stuff 1.5 times higher than my dry fit gap measurements front and back of block and let rack up for an hour
- Install manifold and finger tighten
- Tourque to 25 ft lbs after another hour or over night.

Does this sound correct?  Please forgive me as I am new to engine work beyond simple repairs.  Thanks again for the guidance.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 18, 2020, 05:37:10 AM

Forgot to add the step at the beginning to dimple the block and intake across front and back.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 18, 2020, 09:44:01 AM

Be careful with dimpling. Cast iron can crack.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 76Mantra455 on August 18, 2020, 09:55:18 AM

Quote from: angermgmt on August 18, 2020, 09:44:01 AM

Be careful with dimpling. Cast iron can crack.


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Very true you can also just get a little emery cloth and rough it up a little as well

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 18, 2020, 10:03:50 AM

Entertain taking a files edge and scoring it instead.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 76Mantra455 on August 18, 2020, 06:23:31 PM

Quote from: angermgmt on August 18, 2020, 10:03:50 AM

Entertain taking a files edge and scoring it instead.


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Never thought of that one...thats way better than the emery cloth

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 18, 2020, 06:31:31 PM

Just make sure you scrape outward on the block and have a magnet(s) on hand under neith in the block.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 19, 2020, 05:15:52 PM

Thanks for the additional inputs.  Engine is old and has never been rebuilt.  Compression is very good so I am going to be conservative.  No dimpling.  I will rough up block edges and bottom if intake.  If my gap is more than a quarter inch I will use some old cork gaskets I have from the old Turkey tray set with the Right Stuff 1.5 times remaining gap.  I think roughing up the bottom of the intake front/back edges will help.  I'm stripping the paint on the intake and heads now.  Hope to have repainted Saturday and do my install on Friday.  Public ramps here are closed on the weekends so I hope to test next week.  I'll post me second headache soon (leaky log seal to exhaust ports).  Hope you all can help there too.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 19, 2020, 06:05:51 PM

If compressions good, seal it an run it.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 76Mantra455 on August 19, 2020, 06:15:59 PM

I tried the cork gasket and silicone before didnt work ended up pushing the gaskets out you should be fine with the silicone....like anger said seal it and run it

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 21, 2020, 06:48:25 PM

Okay, I've got the everything disassembled and cleaned.  I removed the valve covers, alternator, etc for a paint refresh.  The heads and timing chain have never been refreshed.  Should I just get the heads cleaned (Ka heads), replace the timing chain, refresh valve train, convert to unleaded fuel, fix oiling issues while I am at it?  I would love to add edelbrock performer heads but don't know if they are worth the price.  Bottom end is fine but 45 yrs old.  I'd love a nice cam sound bit do t think I will get any HP gain.  I am stuck with Berkeley logs due to engine cover restrictions.  Thoughts.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 21, 2020, 07:18:28 PM

Your boat how much $$$ do you want to spend?


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 21, 2020, 08:45:35 PM

2-4k at the most.  Boat is never worth what I have in it.  Just want a nice runner but aggressive.  If that helps...

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 21, 2020, 09:22:20 PM

If the compression is good just make sure the valves/ rockers are adjusted seal it up and run it. Spend your money on a second engine from scratch.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 76Mantra455 on August 21, 2020, 09:54:45 PM

Quote from: angermgmt on August 21, 2020, 09:22:20 PM

If the compression is good just make sure the valves/ rockers are adjusted seal it up and run it. Spend your money on a second engine from scratch.


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I totally agree.....if you want a real hot rod run the olds till it blows and start from scratch....thats what im doing i have a olds and is healthy but im building the pump for the future if that makes sense...the olds will cruise all day pulling a tube or for a long river run at 3500 4000 rpm no problem but if you want serious performance then its gonna cost a lot of cash to get it out of the olds......run it and save for a next engine or build it and have it ready a few seasons from now...

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 22, 2020, 07:01:14 AM

Thanks for the inputs.  I'll try to seal it up, adjust the valves and enjoy.  It's just so easy to think about all the things you want to do when it's partially broken down. 

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 29, 2020, 02:06:06 PM

Got the heads all stripped and repainted.  Pulled the mechanical fuel pump and alternator to get better painting access.  Turned out great.  Fuel pump is cleaned up and installed with a fresh gasket.  Decided to pull the oil filter mount while I have the logs off.  Cleaning the remote now along with oil cooler hoses.  Do you have any suggestions for the oil filter remote gaskets?  Should I use RTV or something else?  What are you using to seal the oil cooler hose threads?  Thanks for any suggestions.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 29, 2020, 02:14:53 PM

What type of fittings on the hoses?


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 29, 2020, 02:51:45 PM

AN fittings, male.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 29, 2020, 02:55:05 PM

I don’t use anything on my AN’s


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 29, 2020, 02:55:55 PM

Unless part of it is NPT


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: dkcerven352 on August 29, 2020, 03:03:24 PM

The AN adapters that thread into a metal casting can use loctite 577. The removable portion can be run dry or a light smear of vaseline for repeated removal

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on August 29, 2020, 03:06:02 PM

Thanks.  What about for the oil filter mount?

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: angermgmt on August 29, 2020, 03:42:29 PM

Mines different and has o rings, so I’ll have to defer to someone more knowledgeable. The fittings shone look like NPT. I’d use the liquid sealant in the tube for those.


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 02, 2020, 05:53:59 PM

Intake  was painted, cured , and installed.  That can of the Right Stuff was a serious pain given I had never used that package before.  Got a huge bead, finger tightened, and let rack for an hour before tightening to spec.  I cleaned and repainted the oil filter mount before installing with ultra black RTV.  Oil cooler hoses are cleaned and ready to install.  Not sure if I should use Teflon tape or thread sealer.  Thread sealer did not work on my braided AN fuel lines last time.  What plugs are you guys using on a stock Olds, R44S or read somewhere the R45S burns a bit hotter? Thanks for all the help.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 02, 2020, 06:38:13 PM

Forgot to attach pictures...

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 05, 2020, 06:58:23 PM

Making some progress.  Used RTV on the oil filter mount and Teflon tape on the oil cooler hoses.  Installed valve covers and cleaned up exhaust manifolds.  Need to polish exhaust manifolds tomorrow and make some gaskets for the Berkeley logs and risers.  CPPerformance is backordered on the gaskets and I really want to test it on Tuesday.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 06, 2020, 04:21:33 PM

Polished my Berkeley logs and snails today.  Not the best job but much better than before.  I'm planning to use the thick copper gaskets with the raised bead around the exhaust ports.  I had leaking on the prior install.  The bolts appear to have loosened significantly.  Any good tricks for keeping the bolts tight? Some split lock washers came with the gaskets.  Thanks for any tips.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 08chevyguy on September 08, 2020, 06:23:35 AM

Lookin good man. Nice work

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 09, 2020, 04:28:13 PM

Thanks 08.  If you don't mind, what 08 model?  I have. Last yr 17 SS, LS3, 6M with 5k miles.  Love that Holden!

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 09, 2020, 04:41:11 PM

Making new gaskets for my Berkeley logs since they are on backorder for several weeks now.  Not to mention, they cost $60 for a set with shipping. 

Using Felpro 3570 raw material.  It is not as thick as the replacement gasket but will hopefully work.

Applying clear packing tape to the cap and risers.  Six layers of tape laid perpindicular.  Cut all edges and holes with a #2 Exacto.  Peeled off of the part and touched the sticky side all over to reduce tack.  Placed that template on the Felpro material.  Traced all edges on the template with a fresh #2 Exacto.  Peeled off the template carefully.  Very pleased with the result.  I will make a second set to have in my spare parts bin for next time.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 12, 2020, 06:19:34 AM

Finished cutting two sets of exhaust manifold gaskets.  The logs were installed with thick copper gaskets and the supplied split washers.  Hopefully the bolts don't back out this time.  I will install the snails and end caps today.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 08chevyguy on September 16, 2020, 10:53:36 AM

Quote from: 455 RatJet on September 09, 2020, 04:28:13 PM

Thanks 08.  If you don't mind, what 08 model?  I have. Last yr 17 SS, LS3, 6M with 5k miles.  Love that Holden!

Just a 2500 with a 6.0. Nothing special. And looking good man

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 16, 2020, 06:40:21 PM

Everything is installed.  My intake install, paint, and engine compartment refresh is finally complete.  Had a minor electrical issue which I traced to a loose ground connection at the starter to block wire.  Scraped some of the paint at head ground connections just to be sure.  Turned it over and caught right away.  Need to set the timing and water test tomorrow or Friday.

I have a cellphone camera video I want to post.  Any tips? My file is too big.  Thanks for all the help guys.  Hope my oil leaks are over now.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: Jered503 on September 16, 2020, 10:48:25 PM

Right on! Keep us updated on how it goes 🤙🏻


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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 17, 2020, 04:22:18 PM

Timing set.  Motor runs great.  No leaks that I can find with 10 min on the hose.  Running a bit rich still.  A little valve/rocker click but that subsided after a min.  Unfortunately, the paint on the exhaust ports is bubbling.  I was hoping I get the prepped good enough.  Temp is 250 on the ports with my temp gun.  Water test is on for tomorrow.  Can't post pictures for some reason....

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 18, 2020, 08:44:21 AM

Picture of the completed engine and bilge refresh...

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 18, 2020, 08:46:29 AM

Picture posting problem was the size of the files.  Paint bubbling on the heads...Is this a common problem with the 455 heads or did I not prep them well enough?

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 18, 2020, 03:45:52 PM

Great afternoon on the lake today.  Very slight oil leak at corner just above the disti (corner). I will enjoy it and reseal the manifold again in the winter.  Thanks for all the help.

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 18, 2020, 04:56:19 PM

Couple pictures from today...

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 18, 2020, 04:57:38 PM

One more...

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 08chevyguy on September 19, 2020, 06:57:41 AM

Looks great!!! Congrats

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Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on September 19, 2020, 03:28:29 PM

Uploaded couple videos for anyone interested

https://youtu.be/rVsR21AokL4

https://youtu.be/QHMhjYKjR-Y

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 76Mantra455 on September 19, 2020, 07:30:56 PM

Right on...glad it worked out

Title: Re: 1976 CV-19
Post by: 455 RatJet on October 11, 2020, 03:58:06 PM

Hoping you all can help me with a couple questuins...

Do any of you know of a good tutorial on adjusting rocker arms on the Olds 455? I've got a slighted clatter and want to get that fixed.  Video or text would be great.

Second, how much noise does a Berkley jet drive make?  I've got a bit of gear noise and want to know it that is normal?  I've greased the drive shaft and u-joints regularly.  No real experience with het drives so I am curious.

Last, how much bowl lube should I loose on each run? Seems to want a few ozs after each run.  Shoulder wear ring and gaskets are relatively new and very low hours.

Thanks for any help. Have a great week!