SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Projects => Topic started by: tamsone6 on November 14, 2013, 10:25:30 PM
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Just kinda curious... Has anyone ever thought of putting in a v12 in their boat? I'm just thought that would be kinda cool.
Life is uncertain. Don't sip.
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I think it would be cool motor will be less weight in the boat and a lot more electrial wires running through the thing.
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why bother when you can even crank out 1000hp+ easily with a small block... :screwy:
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.hotrod.com%2Ff%2Fprojectbuild%2F8994794%2Bw968%2Fhrdp_0609_01_z%252bproject_f_bomb_engine_build%252bcompleted.jpg&hash=a60f6044265a9def9820c2838fd2ba2bfcb7af47)
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twin turbo small block.. that's what im talking about !!!! >:D
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Torque moves boats. Not horsepower.. There are many reasons big blocks are used more than small blocks. One being the cost of building big torque is less than to build similar torque in a small block. Another is rpm. It takes a small block a lot more rpm to build the same power a big block can produce in a much lower rpm. Which in some cases as in out drives you are limited to Ron's before the gears self destruct. As well as in a jet or even a v drive the gearing you would need for the small block application would kill your cruising speed as well as any efficiency.
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You guys are forgetting the most important part, a small block sounds good, a big block sounds better, and a V12 turning 10 plus grand is music of the gods.
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Music to the gods huh, well you better be praying to the gods when that pump explodes at those high rpms.
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the gearing you would need for the small block application would kill your cruising speed as well as any efficiency.
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Simply.....untrue
Dan'l
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Simply.....untrue
Dan'l
how do you figure? It s simple... A small block to make similar power is at much higher rpms than a bb therefore you must hear appropriately... Look at it this way. If you can run a 28 pitch prop on a bb and cruise at say 50 at 3500 rpm but for a Sb application would need let's just say a 24 pitch prop what do you think your cruising speed of 50 mph your rpms would be?
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Or if you don't know props it's the same thing in jets. Change the 28 to an A impeller and the 24 into a B
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how do you figure? It s simple... A small block to make similar power is at much higher rpms than a bb therefore you must hear appropriately... Look at it this way. If you can run a 28 pitch prop on a bb and cruise at say 50 at 3500 rpm but for a Sb application would need let's just say a 24 pitch prop what do you think your cruising speed of 50 mph your rpms would be?
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???
How do I prop a Berkeley?
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???
How do I prop a Berkeley?
i also put it in jet terms right after that post if you didn't see it
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I cruise @ 3000-3500, with an 'A'
WOT is ~4600
In the mid 5's mpg
GPS'd @ 55-58, lookin for 60
Dan'l
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I cruise @ 3000-3500, with an 'A'
WOT is ~4600
In the mid 5's mpg
GPS'd @ 55-58, lookin for 60
Dan'l
what is your application? And every boat is different... But the point I was making is apples for apples as to why big blocks are used over small blocks. For instance my 468 with a blue printed pump and an A impeller cruised at 50+ mph at 3800 rpm and pulled 6500 wot to get a small block to turn similar rpm and put the proper impeller to accommodate the torque curve and you will not have the same cruising speed to rpm it's quite simple.
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And the segment continues, we will be back after a short break and continue this discussion on " what spins your impeller"
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And the segment continues, we will be back after a short break and continue this discussion on " what spins your impeller"
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As the Pump Turns.... Sponsored by Cubic Inches.... Because small is for the weak.
:)
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what is your application? And every boat is different... But the point I was making is apples for apples as to why big blocks are used over small blocks. For instance my 468 with a blue printed pump and an A impeller cruised at 50+ mph at 3800 rpm and pulled 6500 wot to get a small block to turn similar rpm and put the proper impeller to accommodate the torque curve and you will not have the same cruising speed to rpm it's quite simple.
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Impressive HP in that 468, 2hp per cube?
mine's a stock azz sbc ;)
Dan'l
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???
How do I prop a Berkeley?
Well its pretty easy.... Step 1- Unbolt the bowl. Step 2- Hammer,JB weld, and a series of hose clamps the prop to the end of the shaft. Step 3- Floor that bitch! BAM ur done! O0 DUH!!!
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Impressive HP in that 468, 2hp per cube?
mine's a stock azz sbc ;)
Dan'l
Or........ The pump cavitates to allow the required slippage.
Just saying.
GT
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Or........ The pump cavitates to allow the required slippage.
Just saying.
GT
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definitely not cavitating....
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Well its pretty easy.... Step 1- Unbolt the bowl. Step 2- Hammer,JB weld, and a series of hose clamps the prop to the end of the shaft. Step 3- Floor that bitch! BAM ur done! O0 DUH!!!
lmao
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Impressive HP in that 468, 2hp per cube?
mine's a stock azz sbc ;)
Dan'l
o not quite. But yes. A very good running motor.
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Or........ The pump cavitates to allow the required slippage.
Just saying.
GT
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That is impressive. Your turning 6500 with an A impeller? Inducer? What am I doing wrong? Hahaha
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That is impressive. Your turning 6500 with an A impeller? Inducer? What am I doing wrong? Hahaha
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well it is actually 6400 but the 5 is right next to my 4 and I'm on my iPhone. And no I didn't have an inducer it was a 14:1 compression 468 if dart heads tunnel ram and dual Holley set up. Far from a slouch motor. If that helps answer your question.
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well it is actually 6400 but the 5 is right next to my 4 and I'm on my iPhone. And no I didn't have an inducer it was a 14:1 compression 468 if dart heads tunnel ram and dual Holley set up. Far from a slouch motor. If that helps answer your question.
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Calling major BS.
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You're entitled to your opinion and we know you definitely have one. Look all I was saying were facts of big blocks over small blocks. If you want to call bs I suggest less talking and we can meet at the lake and ill show you. I'm not one to get caught up in key board racing or arguing on these forums. Just thought I'd bring up valid points on this question that was asked. If you don't think my motor produced enough power to push a "healthy" A impeller pump to 6400 then I guess you must be right and I obviously don't know what I'm doing... But hey I'm not loosing sleep over your opinions...
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Well anyhoo, back on topic! Anyone find a murcielago motor to stuff in a jetboat yet???LOL
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Anyways the only reason I even brought it up was I saw this Riva that has twin v12's in it built for the founder of Lamborghini. Pretty sick looking boat.
Life is uncertain. Don't sip.
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Would only let me upload one pic in the last post.
Life is uncertain. Don't sip.
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You're entitled to your opinion and we know you definitely have one. Look all I was saying were facts of big blocks over small blocks. If you want to call bs I suggest less talking and we can meet at the lake and ill show you. I'm not one to get caught up in key board racing or arguing on these forums. Just thought I'd bring up valid points on this question that was asked. If you don't think my motor produced enough power to push a "healthy" A impeller pump to 6400 then I guess you must be right and I obviously don't know what I'm doing... But hey I'm not loosing sleep over your opinions...
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I appreciate you allowing me to have my opinion. :thumbup:
I just cannot get my head wrapped around the fact that you have probably the one and only bored out 454 on the planet that makes 1000HP at just under 800 ft/lbs. of torque without a blower, nitrous, E85....
If you have a set up that spins an A impeller at 6400 RPM with no cavitation or slippage, that boat better go in excess of 100MPH....
Don't mean to be cynical, but there is just no way.
Not trying to be a douche, just attempting to keep it real. ;)
GT
Anyways the only reason I even brought it up was I saw this Riva that has twin v12's in it built for the founder of Lamborghini. Pretty sick looking boat.
Life is uncertain. Don't sip.
I saw a boat several years ago that had a Viper V-10 in it, but that was as close as I have seen to what you speak of. If memory serves, the performance was lack luster, I think they missed the pump set up by a long ways.
GT
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I appreciate you allowing me to have my opinion. :thumbup:
I just cannot get my head wrapped around the fact that you have probably the one and only bored out 454 on the planet that makes 1000HP at just under 800 ft/lbs. of torque without a blower, nitrous, E85....
If you have a set up that spins an A impeller at 6400 RPM with no cavitation or slippage, that boat better go in excess of 100MPH....
Don't mean to be cynical, but there is just no way.
Not trying to be a douche, just attempting to keep it real. ;)
GT
I saw a boat several years ago that had a Viper V-10 in it, but that was as close as I have seen to what you speak of. If memory serves, the performance was lack luster, I think they missed the pump set up by a long ways.
GT
there was a I think 30 ' cobra at inland boat center in Perris with twin viper v10s not not jet boat but clean set up
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That's a lot of side drafts to sync
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i run right at 80 with a stock 496.
love my boat. and i can go from laughlin to havasu and back and still have gas to spare
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You're entitled to your opinion and we know you definitely have one. Look all I was saying were facts of big blocks over small blocks. If you want to call bs I suggest less talking and we can meet at the lake and ill show you. I'm not one to get caught up in key board racing or arguing on these forums. Just thought I'd bring up valid points on this question that was asked. If you don't think my motor produced enough power to push a "healthy" A impeller pump to 6400 then I guess you must be right and I obviously don't know what I'm doing... But hey I'm not loosing sleep over your opinions...
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everything boat related comes down to numbers. sure theres that one hull that changes the rules, etc but for the most part (a)rpm + (b)impeller + (c)hull = some result.
all he's saying is that at 6400 with that impeller the numbers just dont add up with a NA bbc.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Fimpeller_Chart1-2.jpg&hash=50afa542aca80270d5fea6516cd218b33f3c5a35)
to turn that impeller to 6400 would require almost 1000hp. And to get 1000hp out of a NA bbc isnt exactly "common"
id love to see a gps shot or a video. sounds like you have a gem of a boat.
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I make 625 with 10.2 to 1 461, i turn a B1 detailed B- to 6400.
I was told once you start adding loaders, inducers, shoes ect... The impeller chart goes out the window.
I've got data to back that up as well. According to the chart i should be spinning 6200 to 6100.
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I make 625 with 10.2 to 1 461, i turn a B1 detailed B- to 6400.
I was told once you start adding loaders, inducers, shoes ect... The impeller chart goes out the window.
I've got data to back that up as well. According to the chart i should be spinning 6200 to 6100.
This totally reinforces what have previously stated... Slippage.
You can call it slip, cavitation, bypass, blowout.
But the long and skinny is, loss of impeller efficiency. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if you could get it to hook up harder, you would be out of your rpm range needed to make the power you are..
In short meaning you would need more torque to get the same revs.
Without extensive data acquisition and plotting information into formulas, there us really no perfect answer.
GT
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everything boat related comes down to numbers. sure theres that one hull that changes the rules, etc but for the most part (a)rpm + (b)impeller + (c)hull = some result.
all he's saying is that at 6400 with that impeller the numbers just dont add up with a NA bbc.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Fimpeller_Chart1-2.jpg&hash=50afa542aca80270d5fea6516cd218b33f3c5a35)
to turn that impeller to 6400 would require almost 1000hp. And to get 1000hp out of a NA bbc isnt exactly "common"
id love to see a gps shot or a video. sounds like you have a gem of a boat.
I was beginning to think I was all alone on this.
GT
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everything boat related comes down to numbers. sure theres that one hull that changes the rules, etc but for the most part (a)rpm + (b)impeller + (c)hull = some result.
all he's saying is that at 6400 with that impeller the numbers just dont add up with a NA bbc.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr319%2Fjetboatperformance%2Fimpeller_Chart1-2.jpg&hash=50afa542aca80270d5fea6516cd218b33f3c5a35)
to turn that impeller to 6400 would require almost 1000hp. And to get 1000hp out of a NA bbc isnt exactly "common"
id love to see a gps shot or a video. sounds like you have a gem of a boat.
so according to this chart if I'm running a A impeller and spending 5'500 rpm I'm around 600 hp am I understanding this right
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so according to this chart if I'm running a A impeller and spending 5'500 rpm I'm around 600 hp am I understanding this right
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Sort of...
You have to understand, like I have previously stated, slippage (or a loose pump) causes higher RPM, also too, once the inpeller spins past about 5200 RPM cavitation dramatically increases...
JMHO ;)
GT
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I was beginning to think I was all alone on this.
GT
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Your definitely not alone, I didn't want to pile on. You looked like you had it covered. ;) There's definitely something in the math that doesn't add up. My dyno sheet says I make 825 HP and I'm spinning a bronze A 61-6200 rpm. Loader, shoe, ride plate. Looks like that chart fits my set damn close.
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I spun my "a" to 5300 with my olds 455. And I'd have to say 500-550seems to be a good stout number if I had to guess
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Your definitely not alone, I didn't want to pile on. You looked like you had it covered. ;) There's definitely something in the math that doesn't add up. My dyno sheet says I make 825 HP and I'm spinning a bronze A 61-6200 rpm. Loader, shoe, ride plate. Looks like that chart fits my set damn close.
i have an aluminum A bronze A and aluminum A are completely different.
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i have an aluminum A bronze A and aluminum A are completely different.
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Care to expand on this?
Curious as hell where this goes.
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Care to expand on this?
Curious as hell where this goes.
curious of what? The difference between aluminum and bronze? I'm confused.
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curious of what? The difference between aluminum and bronze? I'm confused.
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Do you care to expand on how a Mag/bronze and an aluminum impeller of the same cut are, as you say "completely different", because they are NOT.
I would describe them as "extremely similar"....
GT
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Do you care to expand on how a Mag/bronze and an aluminum impeller of the same cut are, as you say "completely different", because they are NOT.
I would describe them as "extremely similar"....
GT
so in your opinion an alluminum Berkeley A. Impeller spins the same rpm as say a bronze aggressor impeller? Same application...
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Bc they do NOT.... That is my point
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so in your opinion an alluminum Berkeley A. Impeller spins the same rpm as say a bronze aggressor impeller? Same application...
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Who said Berkeley?, Not me... And yes they do.
Bc they do NOT.... That is my point
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Anytime two pieces of equipment are compared you have to go apple for apple, not pineapple to summer squash....
The similarities of the two, even a Berkeley are strikingly similar, the difference is literally much less than 100 RPM cut for cut.
My first race pump, while this was quite some time ago, had an Aggressor 9 vane bowl and an Aggressor Mag/Bronze A cut, when we broke the living snot out of the impeller because of eating a MLB regulation sized piece of cobble, I installed a detailed A cut Berkeley aluminum and was back in the water later the same day, the boats performance was nearly identical, there was a slight rise in WOT RPM (negligible), but that could have been due to a loader that was slightly different because we broke the previous one clean off. Speed was within a mile or two.
You have some bad info IMHO.
GT
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Who said Berkeley?, Not me... And yes they do.
Anytime two pieces of equipment are compared you have to go apple for apple, not pineapple to summer squash....
The similarities of the two, even a Berkeley are strikingly similar, the difference is literally much less than 100 RPM cut for cut.
My first race pump, while this was quite some time ago, had an Aggressor 9 vane bowl and an Aggressor Mag/Bronze A cut, when we broke the living snot out of the impeller because of eating a MLB regulation sized piece of cobble, I installed a detailed A cut Berkeley aluminum and was back in the water later the same day, the boats performance was nearly identical, there was a slight rise in WOT RPM (negligible), but that could have been due to a loader that was slightly different because we broke the previous one clean off. Speed was within a mile or two.
You have some bad info IMHO.
GT
y try 200-400 harder with an aggressor over the alluminum A
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y try 200-400 harder with an aggressor over the alluminum A
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your opinions are your opinions. Certainly not facts. I do happen to have quite a bit of knowledge on this. In fact enough to know when it's not even worth posting anymore on the subject. This isn't even what the thread was about anyways... So it is what it is. But not worth even going back and forth over anymore bc it's all talk at this point.
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y try 200-400 harder with an aggressor over the alluminum A
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Not sure where you are getting your information, but a Mag/Bronze Aggressor is IDENTICAL to an Aggressor aluminum. What is causing this major difference you speak of?
GT