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Havasukona455

  • Karma: +4/-0
Gate valve
« on: April 10, 2014, 10:48:38 AM »
Hey guys. My old boat had a gate valve coming off the pump and connected to hose going to the motor so I could control the temp of the motor. On my new boat there is no gate valve and while running it on the hose last night it got up to 190 but the motor didn't feel that hot. So I be running a gate valve on there ?


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its got a big block, berkeley jet and just removed the seat belts to make it go faster

Jet Boat Maloney

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 11:55:28 AM »
Does it have a regulator. I would think it would have to have something otherwise you'd be blowing gaskets.


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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 12:03:54 PM »
When I got my boat, it had zero water control on it. Well gaskets went and had to rebuild the motor... If it worked on your last boat, put one on.
Have you checked your oil recently?
  • Boat #1: 1974 18ft Southwind
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GoinBrokeBahner

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 12:14:07 PM »
Put one on! GT has lots of info on this subject on here....


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SoCalPSD

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 12:22:08 PM »
I am pro gate valve and pressure regulator but I will admit my kona does not have one on it and hasn't since I have owned it. Never ran hot or cold, temps were always within 140-180 and thank god I never had a hose come loose or blow. I'd run a gate valve right off the pump and then the pressure regulator.

But idling on  the trailer and running hot say two things, either you have crappy water pressure at home or your not getting enough water through you motor. I'd pull all the cooling plugs on the motor and heads (not the freeze plugs) and run water through it and flush the sand out and start putting them back in starting at the bottom working your way to the top. After all that I'd pull the hoses and replace them and make sure the fittings are not plugged. And most importantly are the hoses ran right and is there a thermostat.


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In my best "grandad" voice with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth....  "if a day goes by and you learn nothing, I hope like hell you got a lot of sleep".... :thumbup:

ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 12:28:49 PM »
i dont see how cold water from a hose would allow any motor to build heat unless you had the hose turned wayyyy down. 

tuning for temp on the trailer is compleeeeetely different than tuning it on the lake.  not to mention lake water temp can change and you might need to open or close it some to adjust. 

not only should you have a gate valve to control engine temperature, but you should have it there in case you have a leak somewhere in your cooling system.  a 1/2" hose will flow some serious water if you snagged a hose on a beach chair or something.  you'd sink in minutes and if you started the boat to power it to shore, you'd have a 60+ psi 1/2" leak. 
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Havasukona455

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 01:52:56 PM »
I thought so too but I didnt see anything on the line. I bought a gate valve to put inline. Oil is fine no water on the dipstick or anything. I did pull the hoses coming off the t stat and one had a little bit of black crap in it from the hose I'm guessing. What scares me is the po said it would run about 190 to 200 so he pulled the heads and cleaned the water jackets out put new gaskets and buttoned it back up but never tested it. I'm hoping he did a good job with it and not half ass. I'm gonna out the gate valve in and test it at puddingstone later today. Not sure about the water pressure in the hose cause my brother turned the water on.


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its got a big block, berkeley jet and just removed the seat belts to make it go faster

Havasukona455

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 01:53:44 PM »
Another question I've always wondered is can you turn the hose on first and then start the boat ? I've always started the boat then turned the water on


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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 02:00:05 PM »
Another question I've always wondered is can you turn the hose on first and then start the boat ? I've always started the boat then turned the water on


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I turn mine water in first. So if there is a reason as to why not. I'd like to know
  • Boat #1: 1974 18ft Southwind
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icecreaman

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 02:56:13 PM »
If you're running headers, you can fill cylinders with water before you get the boat fired up.  Always start the motor then turn on the water.  Turn off the water then kill the motor. Water running in an engine that isn't running is not good.
 The gate valve to control water temp/ pressure debate is as old as the Ford Chevy debate.  My.02 is the gate valve is simply a safety device to stop water from coming in the boat if a hose happens to break like Kay0tyk explained .  Jet boat motors run cold and that should be taken into account when the motor is built and the tolerances are set..
 Oil temp is much more critical.  I'm always afraid if you close down the valve to create heat you may be over restricting the volume and creating steam pockets and hot spots.  When do you adjust your valve at idle, 1/2 throttle, full throttle?  Each one of these settings is going to create a different temp.
 I think 1 line in and 2 or 3 lines out is the simplest way, and understand that 130*-150* in a boat with an open cooling system is normal.  I personally regulate my water pressure by having 2 dump lines that are -10 plus my headers.  If you give your cooling system multiple exits, it can't over pressure, and you can still keep the water volume up. It's more important to warm the oil before hammering it than water temp.
 But That's just me.
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Jet Boat Maloney

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 03:12:58 PM »
I have a regulator but I think I'm going to add a gate valve for the just in case of a leak reason. Not by this weekend but for sure right after.


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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 05:21:50 PM »
Gate valves suck.   >:D

Sometimes they work and they are cheap but not made to control flow and no one ever said shit got water in my block cause my regulator let me down.   How many milkshakes have been caused by boats with gates only off the pump???  Ur house water hose is like 30 psi ur pump makes 200 psi.  So trailer test dont count. 
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 06:20:55 PM »
I have had an olds and ford... ford isnt a worry so much with logs but olds and chevy its a must on flow/pressure.  Any jet boat should have a hard line off pump to valve just in case you blow a hose.

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 06:36:42 PM »
I always use a hydraulic hose from a push lock fitting in the pump to a gate valve, I don't do rigid pipe in the pump because of the chance of breakage.

A gate valve works great. Once you get the boat in the water, you adjust it at idle, let it get the outlet temp to about 150*F and it should be fine unless it is piped horribly wrong. The water temperature will tank as soon as the engine speeds up.

Like icecreaman says, ALWAYS start the engine first, then water on, when done, water off then engine off. It takes about two seconds for this to go horribly wrong.

Also, if it wont stay running because of a tune issue or something, get that straightened out first. You do not need to run water if you are only running it for a minute or two.

I recommend backing off the shaft packing on the pump if running it dry, it helps keep the rope seal from burning up. The packing should only be tightened in the water and just tight enough to see about a drip every couple minutes.

The gate valve debate is silly because NOBODY has ever come up with something better with fewer moving parts. Until that happens, I will use a gate valve over anything else. So simple it's almost stupid.  :sly:

GT

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 07:02:04 PM »
Yeah well any Gate valve u look up says its not to regulate flow
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 07:07:22 PM »
Heres another
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 07:10:14 PM »
No manufacturer suggests gate to regulate flow
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 07:47:39 PM »
I really don't car what ANY of those say...

The regulator you have on your boat is not rated for untreated water either, yet, here we are.  :sly:

These valves have been used on these boats for over forty years, so for you to say they don't work is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.   :screwy:

Somehow I knew this was going to happen.  :thumbdown:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 07:55:07 PM »
Last post for me in this thread.

A 3/4" gate valve is used in 90% of all cases. The reason is simple, there are numerous 3/4" fittings available to adapt a garden hose adapter, the valve is GROSSLY oversize so that it won't plug up with debris, you can find them ANYWHERE, Ace Hardware, HD, Coast to Coast, Lowes, just to name a few.

I know 100 people are going to tell you that you should have all this fancy pressure relief, pressure regulator, thermostatic, whiz bang crap, I am here to tell you that you simply do not. I could get your boat to work perfect with a simple stainless steel fender washer drilled out to the proper orifice size inserted inside the garden hose adapter. That is if you feel it necessary to use a ball valve instead of a gate. Or you could drop the $18 on a ten turn Red and White and a zip tie and be done with it, for the life of the boat.

GT


  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Squirrel Master

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2014, 08:16:36 PM »
experience over knowledge sometimes huh GT. me personally I will run both gate and pressure relief because with your LIFE and others you cant be to safe gate to reduce and shut off flow in an emergency relief to help my motor out 90 to 100$ for both whats your boat or lives worth..
  • Boat #1: 1976 Sleekcraft Kauia
  • Boat #2: 1979 Tahiti Super Tiger
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"most important... WHEN IN DOUBT, THROTTLE OUT!!!"  Crewchief22

Havasukona455

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 08:55:09 PM »
Well testing went bad. I put the gate valve on before I left opened it about 3/4 and ran the boat for 4 minutes. Before I knew it the temp was at 190 and climbing. Shut it off and let it sit for about ten minutes. Started it back up with the gate valve all the way open and it went down to 140 with the motor at 2k rpms. Less then 30 seconds it's right back up to 190 and climbing 😡. There's gotta be a clogged line right ? Any help would be great guys


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its got a big block, berkeley jet and just removed the seat belts to make it go faster

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2014, 09:12:14 PM »
Did u adjust it back down after runnung at 2grand when it went up to 190
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2014, 09:17:26 PM »
What exactly goes from ur pump to block?  Any valve at all?  And is thrre anything on the exit line
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2014, 09:21:31 PM »
Are u running logs or over transom headers
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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Havasukona455

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Gate valve
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2014, 09:26:17 PM »
I didn't back it down at all cause the temp only got down to 140 and that was it. At idle it would jump back up to 190 easily.


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