SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Projects => Topic started by: frankloc on December 12, 2009, 11:59:16 AM
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hello everyone out there. im new to this site. i like it very muchee. well i bought this boat in 06 finally started workin on it. redid the carpet. got the pump made 4 a smallblock chevy 383 strocker that i was gonna put in my 1980 cheyenne shortbed sold it due to smog laws. its a 383 400 crank probe pistons bored 60 over world heads 202/160 64 cc castiron comp cams hyd1800 to6000 in.274 ex286 @ 50 in.230 ex 236 w/1.5 rocker in. 490 ex. 490 lobe sep angle 110. edelbrock rpm air gap intake holley 700.msd ready to run dist ignitionbox w/rev limitor. boat came with no motor pump or mounts. it sits on a dual axlr trailer with buddy brakes and the tounge of the trailer swings. i got it for $2000 from a friend @ work. i know your supposed to put a big block in a get. but i have my strocker ready to go. dont have enough cheddar to put a BBC. IS THIS ENOUGH POWER TO GET MY BOAT MOVIN? I WILL POST PICTURES OF MY BOAT N MOTOR SOON. IF ANYBODY HAS FAITH IN SBC PLEASE HELP ME I REALLY WANT TO GET OUT ON THE WATER THIS SUMMER. THANKS
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Theres a lot of jets out there with SBC and SBF (but who would want the SBF). You have plenty of power to get that boat moving. If you get it out on the water and you dont have the power you want....Well, thats what blowers are for!
We must have pictures!
Welcome!
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started building a 385 stroker for a boat, but never finished that project...i would say if you had the jet set-up probably for the sbc then you should be ok...one of my concerns is that you built this motor to run on the street throwing it in a boat might cause some problems as jet-boats and boats in general are a little different...you should be running a little more tolerance/clearance in your motor...sounds like you put a froged piston in it too which is a good thing, but and fyi they expand alot from heat especially in a jet motor and the possibility of locking it up is there...sounds like a good project anytime i hear sb in a jet i get all excited because i am a small block fan...i know josh at jet boat performance is running a sbf in his beezer, and that puppy runs
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Welcome to SCJB
Nordie is correct about tolerances being a problem if the engine was built as a street engine. Is it a fresh build or does it have some miles on it?
Good luck with the build, and we always like pics
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Welcome aboard, I am a huge small block fan, but gave in to peer pressure LOL.. :D
As for the clearance deal, my solution would be to put a water pump on the engine with a thermostat kit and you will be golden....
Let me know if you need help with this, I have the parts in the tool shed to get this done, there are a lot of these setups out there so don't laugh... ;D $150 in parts will keep you from tearing into a fresh build.... ;)
BTW, Pics or it didn't happen :sly:
GT
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thanks alot so 60 over is to muchee? so what kind of water pump do i need? i have an edelbrock victor jr would that work? im also savin up some $$$ to buy some basset twisties. how would i do the plumbing on it? a diagram would help?
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welcome :thumbup:
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here ya go
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thanks guys. the water pump that i need to use is it a cam driven pump? i took some nice pictures today but i must be doin somthing wrong cause they are not showin up :banghead:do i need a crossover with thermostat w/bypass aswell or do i use a t valve? motor has never bin fired needs to hit the dyno??? lets see if i can get those pictures up.
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thanks guys. the water pump that i need to use is it a cam driven pump? i took some nice pictures today but i must be doin somthing wrong cause they are not showin up :banghead:do i need a crossover with thermostat w/bypass aswell or do i use a t valve? motor has never bin fired needs to hit the dyno??? lets see if i can get those pictures up.
No, not a cam driven deal, just a normal automotive short water pump, it would be a good idea to put a stainless backing plate on the pump, (I have some) but regular old pump and a T-stat housing with a water inlet and a circulation hose, trust me they work, your motor will run 160* from the second it warms up...
You will end up using the T-stat housing as everything....inlet, outlet, header water, T-stat and crossover (actually the water pump takes that position)...
Pics maybe tomorrow of what you need... ;)
GT
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i have a housing water pump, and hoses for a sbc boat app
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awsome guys thanks how much 4 parts? so i can still use my victor water pump? im trying to save as much $$$ as i can. ya i like pics to ill try to have them posted by today. thanks guys man i love this site.
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No problem I have a marine omc water pump and thermostat housing...ran it with a edel. Torker2 with no problems to speak of...it isn't the prettiest piece but with some paint you won't notice it really it was also ran with headers, and all that and worked great...just make offer I'll see if I can pull up any pics when I get home or I'll take some
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Did I miss something? If this is a jet boat he's talking about, why the hell does he need a water pump? ??? ??? ???
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cleareance issues.
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cleareance issues.
Seems to me it'd be a lot easier to disassemble the engine and achieve the proper clearances than it is going to be to keep a rigged up water pump system working right, how do you plan to regulate the temps? Radiator?
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funny v-drives, and i/o's have water pumps...wouldnt make a difference really...seen a few water pumps on jet-boats...also pops engine builder out of oregon told me the exact same thing...said if you were to run a water pump you wouldnt half to worry about clearance issues vs the aspect of a non waterpump normal jet set-up...i left it at that and never asked for more, but im sure glenn would no in detail why...the engine builder cant remember the name of his shop was the one to explain this, and i guess he is a prominant engine builder for these marathon sprint boat types of companies...believe he is out of medford area
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V drives and I/O's require a water pump because they lack the jet pump. The jet pump is a more than efficient way of providing cooling water to the engine.
Can you explain to me why a water pump, or lack of one, has any bearing on bearing & piston clearances?
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no i cannot, but it probably has something to do with the thermostat housing itself, and the waterpump working in conjuntion...
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The only thing that would be different is the GPM of the water flow through the block, and you can control that with a regulator. I still say it's easier, cheaper and better to just do the engine right. Otherwise dude will be back here in 6 months crying about a blown engine.
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I got lost there real quick too Skip! :) Thanks for explaining it, kinda, guys. Actually putting my brain into action (a rare occurrance) on this, and kinda makes sense to run a water pump/t-stat in a way.
Gonna think about this for a bit, but intruducing the water from the jet at the tstat housing, and hooking the headers and o/b dump there also is going to starve the engine of water until the t-stat opens (assuming the block IS full of water to begin with, if it isn't, the t-stat will NEVER open, it's at the highest point on the engine cooling system so the block needs to be pretty full less expansion).
That would be my only real concern as I see it right now. I would probably tap the water from the jet into the rear water jackets in the heads and run a pressure releif valve off the jet as well. But then the headers are gonna run dry until the t-stat opens as well. maybe run the header T off the jet drive as well and push in from the back of the cylinder heads? Brain may fry on this one! (How to bleed the air out of it?).
Good food for thought though! Great excercise!
Ray
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it really isnt that technical fellas...if i can figure it out anyone can...i remember opening up my motor, and she was always full of water...hence winterizing...especially waterpump apps...my waterpump boat ran very similar to the jet with a waterpump...guess more along the lines of a car motor...water in the headers was always spot on, but there wasnt a thermostat in there come to think of it...i had an enter and exit gate valve as well im guessing the presence of the waterpump is helping to prevent the hot and cold spots in the block...which seems why alot of us leave more tolerance...idk i could probably get the jet guys number that knows this and ask...or wait for glenn to chime in
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Still a bunch of horse shit that you don't need to mess with, do it right, the first time.
End
O0
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so what is the right the first time?? its wut i got and no im not using a radiator. thanks alot for those of you out there trying to help me its greately appreciated.
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so what is the right the first time?? its wut i got and no im not using a radiator. thanks alot for those of you out there trying to help me its greately appreciated.
I'm trying to help you, simplicity is your best friend. The difference in clearances between street engines and marine engines is about .005 on your piston to cylinder wall, and .002 on your mains. If you just had the thing built then it's not a big deal to open it up and get the proper clearances, hit up Engine Doctor on here. He'll set you right.
Good luck, keep us posted.
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How do you post pics on here???
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wow
Just saw this, holy crap....
First, the water pump I am referring to has nothing at all to to with getting the water from the lake to the engine, it has to do with recirculating the water in the block and heads to regulate the temps to the gnats ass.
Second, since when is it easier to tear down a fresh engine, hone the cylinders, machine the crank, all new gaskets and so on than to install a water pump (four bolts that will need to be torqued anyways) and a thermostat housing (which is needed no matter what setup is used)...I don't get that argument at all....
The water pump prevents all cold shock and temperature regulation issues, so the engine does not have to be touched as far as clearances. We do it all of the time for Northwest engines because of the 40+/- degree water temps...
Trust me on this one, I can even get you some of the stuff gratis...That's free of charge for you gringo's (I am white as rice BTW ;D)
Hope that answers some of the questions.....This thing will run 160*F all day long, you don't want to go much warmer because organic compounds start to stick above that and (probably does not apply here) salt crystalizes at 170*F..
Anybody else? ;)
Have I ever steered someone wrong? ??? :-\ ???
GT
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NO GT now tell him how to post pics just like you told me when i was a newbie :thumbup:
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thanks GTJETS and everyone else out there you have my deepest gratitude. GRATIS sounds MUY BUENO right now times are tough ill use whatever i can get parts, knowledge u name it. now if only i can post some damn pictures??? its good to know that i dont have to tear down my motor. what a relief just bolt on parts great. if you need my number here it is 562 587 0756 please call thanks a bunch
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http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=929.0 here you got frank...posting pictures explained
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here you go pics
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hReturn to this topic.
Don't use smileys.
Attach
ope this works
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finally got it can i get away with that oil pan????
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i took a pic of my daughters project im restoring the peddle boat 4 her 2nd birthday gonna make atrailer to go with the car
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this is it what can i use what cant i? i have a bowl i dont need the nozzle either and the transom adapter/plate does anybody need this stuff?
it also came with basset t valves and steel braided hosos with an fittings gonna use those
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more pics
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sorry messed up i know its all over the place fellas. WELL THIS IS MY PROJECT THANKS GUYS FOR HELPING ME OUT NORDIE.GTJETS AND EVERYONE ELSE ID LIKE TO SEE THE WATER PUMP SET UP THAT I NEED??
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Looks good so far, as for the oil pan, you're probably going to need another one, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but typically you only have about 8 3/4" from pan rail to hull,due to the fact that it's a kick out pan, you may get away with it. GT is your guy to go to for the water pump stuff. Good looking project, keep your plan simple and you'll be floating in no time, and for not a lot of money.
Local 416 huh? I'm Plumber's & Fitters 398, Nordie is 416 too
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yeah seen the 416 sticker and had to comment on that...knew there was something i liked about this guy...looking good there...dig the peddle car and boat...looks like a solid project, and full stringer kona...seems like kona's never die, or they just made that many of them
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yeah seen the 416 sticker and had to comment on that...knew there was something i liked about this guy...looking good there...dig the peddle car and boat...looks like a solid project, and full stringer kona...seems like kona's never die, or they just made that many of them
Pipefitter/Steamfitter Local 393 San Jose here... :thumbup:
I will do some inventory checking this weekend and see what I have for you, I should be able to get you close... :sly:
X2 on the oil pan, too deep in the rear of the engine and it will hit the intake of the pump, options are short wide "jetboat pan" or move the engine forward :thumbdown:
I may still have a good Hamburger pan, I can't remember which one I have left (early or late)... (SBC's have the dipstick on either side also one piece rear main and two piece....)
GT
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I like the tow vehical and boat really cool oh your boat is cool too ;D
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I like the look of those seats. Were they in the boat or did you have them made up
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thats how i got the boat. MARTINEZ MARINE INTERIORS IN CORONA CALIFAS. thats where the interior was done
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Well looks great man....can't wait to see everything come together!
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I had a 383 with nitrous in my boat the last few seasons and bought a KEVCO pan for it. It's basically a box with the bottom angled a little bit for the floor. It fit awesome like it was built for my floor/motor plate location. I think it was like $185.00 for the pan and pickup. I will take a picture tommorrow and try to post it (the engine is out). It worked great for the few years I ran it.
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yeah thanks guys cant wait to take out the familia when its done i know the lilone is gonna dig it the most. once the holidays are over i can get back to workin on it. GTJETS is supposed to hook me up with the water pump set up i need and hamburgerpan to tie it all together. ILL BUST A NUT IF MY BOAT HITS 60 LOL
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hey GTJETS just wondering if you came across the parts i need. hit me up thanks.
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hey GTJETS just wondering if you came across the parts i need. hit me up thanks.
Yeah actually...
Is the water neck on your intake manifold angled or are the bolts straight across from eachother?
I will get some pictures together and post them up to see if it will work out.. :thumbup:
GT
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looking at pic they are east to west side by side just let me know what i need to get it done. what about the water lines on the intake manifold?
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also how would i do the plumbing with the water pump involved? i just want to get out on the water and get some seat time befor spring. thanks if u can give me a call 562 587 0756 thanks
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This will sound retarded, so please be patient...I have had a couple of Full Sails and I think "three sheets" applies....I don't know who drank these other four empties though :sly:
If you track the path of the water;
from the jetpump, water goes to the T-stat housing I will get to you, the T-stat housing has one inlet and three outlets. One 3/4" inlet, one 1 3/4" outlet and two 5/8" outlets (estimated sizes)..
The one large outlet will connect directly to the inlet on the engine mounted water pump (which I believe I also have)...That water pump will recirculate the water in the block until the thermostat opens, there is always some water bypassing the stat to keep the other two outlets feeding water (for the exhaust) which brings me to the two other outlets, these normally go to the exhaust logs, but with headers, one will go to the header control valve, the other to an overboard dump line....
This setup actually makes alternator brackets easier and belt geometry a little better...
I left my camera at a jobsite today, but I will have it tomorrow...Been busier than a three legged cat covering shit in sawdust during a tornado... :screwy:
Oh yeah, call ya tomorrow. :thumbup:
GT
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thank you SENIOR YA HIT ME UP. I DONT GO BACK TO WORKTILL FEB so i got a lot of time not enough $$$. work safe
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Hey GT, your drunk posting is much more coherent than Beerjets :thumbup:
I'm very impressed that you could get that info about the cat posted without sluring your words ;)
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No problem I have a marine omc water pump and thermostat housing...ran it with a edel. Torker2 with no problems to speak of...it isn't the prettiest piece but with some paint you won't notice it really it was also ran with headers, and all that and worked great...just make offer I'll see if I can pull up any pics when I get home or I'll take some
HEY NORDIE FRANK HERE 416 LOS ANGELES WOULD YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE PICS OF THE WATER PUMP SET UP FOR MY SBC?
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Frank, what do you need a pic of? This is as atraight forward as it gets....
Mount a factory GM style water pump and you're done...Put the motor in the boat...finito...make sure all the other holes, other than the t-stat housing are plugged with something or other...Also, if the heads have water temp sensor holes, use one of those, they work better in the heads than in the intake. :thumbup:
I will see is I have a pic of my Carrera motor... ;)
Very straight forward :)
GT
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kool just plug the water pump and run the the lines to the headers and out the dump ok what do i plug the pump with. i dont want to sound like an idiot???? so i would need a new theromastat housing with a bypass right. i want to get it done so BAD. after all that is done all i need is some basset headers. THANK YOU SENIOR HAVE ANICE CHRISTMAS
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The thermostat outlet (large hose, like the upper radiator hose on a car) goes right to the water pump, I know it sounds screwy, but trust me it works great...
There are two water outlets on the stat housing, one goes overboard, the other to the header control valve...If you were to run logs, one hose to each log (they use way more water flow to keep them cool)...
I will get some pictures of the housing, I can't get to my Carrera's small block right now... :banghead:
GT
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Thanks GT. your instructions are strait forward like you said, i just want to see what it looks like so i can do it right if you have the thermostat housing would you like to get rid of it and what ever else you think i might need minus the waterpump?? thank you verry muchee.
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SO I JUST NEED A SPECIAL HOSE FROM THE WATER PUMP TO THE THERMOSTAT. BIG TO SMALL AND VOALA. JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE???? IF ANY BODY WANTS TO GET RID OF ONE ILL TAKE IT?
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SO I JUST NEED A SPECIAL HOSE FROM THE WATER PUMP TO THE THERMOSTAT. BIG TO SMALL AND VOALA. JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE???? IF ANY BODY WANTS TO GET RID OF ONE ILL TAKE IT?
Nope, the hose is big to big, (that sounded a little gay)....
The thermostat housing is in my hand, but my camera is dead, as soon as the battery recharges I'll go get a picture for you...
MMMMKay?
GT
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Nope, the hose is big to big, (that sounded a little gay)....
The thermostat housing is in my hand, but my camera is dead, as soon as the battery recharges I'll go get a picture for you...
MMMMKay?
GT
Ill take it if you want to get rid of it? Hose to if you have that too? THANKS GT
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SOOOOO??????
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SOOOOO??????
Sorry bro, been on call (San Francisco last night :thumbdown:) I will get it from the shop tomorrow.....
Right now I have the tv on (Bourne Supremacy) :thumbup: and just sort of hangin', dog ass tired....
GT
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KOOL. Dont trip. if you whant to get rid of it ill take it hose too and whatever else i might need. get your rest work safe. MAN I CANT WAIT TO GET BACK TO WORK AND SLAMDOWN SOME FUCKEN IRON.
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MMMMK GUYZ. Dont wanna sound retarded but here goes fuhkit. CAN i run a crossover with a bypass and no thermostat due to my clearance issues in my block (60 over)could that and will that work. My brother keeps talking shit about puttin a water pump on he dont understand the concept. he said no thermostat cold water all the time. But then again he had a FOUND ON RIVER DEAD in his tahiti. TAHITI is now RIP. ANYONE THANK FELLAS. FORGIVE ME IM A NEWBIE
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MMMMK GUYZ. Dont wanna sound retarded but here goes fuhkit. CAN i run a crossover with a bypass and no thermostat due to my clearance issues in my block (60 over)could that and will that work. My brother keeps talking shit about puttin a water pump on he dont understand the concept. he said no thermostat cold water all the time. But then again he had a FOUND ON RIVER DEAD in his tahiti. TAHITI is now RIP. ANYONE THANK FELLAS. FORGIVE ME IM A NEWBIE
.060 over is not the clearance, that is the overbore, the clearance that is spoken about is the piston to cylinder wall clearance...Wayy different. If you motor was machined for an automotive application, chances are they will be too close, but just speculation....
There are advantages to the water pump deal...even water temps in the cylinder heads for one...
GT
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TANK YOU
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i was tanked last nite. thanks bro for the info. ill take the thermostat housing and hose just give me a call thanks
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wut up fellas gonna install the intake pump and motor this weekend does any body have SBC BASSETT s they want to get rid of ? please let me know. pic s when im done just bought the hardweare
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i hate when this stuff comes up late i just sold a set!
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???????
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This is on it's way to you....I hope :-\
[attachimg=#]
I am also sending along the hose and clamps, it has a 140* stat in it so you should be GTG....Need the stat gasket...
GT
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NO PART NO MONEY NO CALL. YUP I GOT BURNED. THANKS