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This project has become a project after certain events unfolded in a day of doing some routine maintenance on a recently purchased Southwind Cruiser (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=6547). Captain Broken Finger (1980Nordic) and Chromey came by to assist....
so the day started off trying to get the interior out.....that was quite a task in itself.....
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next was trying to replace the rubber hose that connects the filler neck of the tank to the filler flippy cap things. they were leaking very badly... we were determind to replace the 2 inch long hose without having to remove the tanks...
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....then shit came to a crashing hult when we got to the drivers side....the filler necks are cracked around the welds....so the tanks need to come out. Apparently, the tanks were glassed in before the cap was attached to the hull...its nearly impossible to remove the tanks witout doing some serious reconstruction. The seat boxes the interior mounts to (that is glassed to) needs to be removed. Then the gunnel supports need to be removed.....mind you, these are 27 gallon tanks that are TOPPED OFF....chromey spent a lot of time syphoning the gas out of the tanks and putting it into some cars. He only got about 75% of the gas out of one tank......i still got over 30 gallons of gas to move.
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Do you know how to tig weld? ;D
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Do you know how to tig weld? ;D
Nick does Cj22
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that's a drag. Do you have one of these? They work like a charm. I know it's a very small part of your worries, but if you don't have one yet, they're very handy to have around the garage...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SIPHON-HOSE-FUEL-TRANSFER-GAS-POOL-AQUARIUM-SYPHON_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250389034587QQitemZ250389034587QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools
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one of the upsides of the day was the easy fix on the 'knock issue'.....there was a loud rapping 2-3 times on the valve cover when you first fired up the motor....turns out the rocker stud had backed out....
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anyways....this project to remove the tanks, get them welded up, re-glassing them back in....put it all back together (including re-carpeting it) will be done by next weekend. It wasnt what I was expecting to find today when we started. But its better to knock it all out now and have the peace that its done and done right.
in short, this was me after being up for over 24 hours and knowing i was only getting 3 hours sleep before my next shift...all after the epic failure of a day trying to get it done so i could hit up lake mead in the morning.
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Seems like you're at a very good point to R square the carpet... I'm just saying, since you were talking about it before...
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yes, chromey brought one of those syphons over.
i learned a valuable lesson about syphoning gas with your mouth (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=3715.0) once.
josh (chief broken finger) has a uncle or something that can weld them up for me.
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So what are you going to do with the rocker issue?
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So what are you going to do with the rocker issue?
we just put it back in with some red loctite....it should hold good. there was no serious damage done due to it.
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Right on. I know how big of a bitch it is to cut out tanks. I just took the ones out of my Tahiti. Get some cut off wheels and a pry bar.
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Right on. I know how big of a bitch it is to cut out tanks. I just took the ones out of my Tahiti. Get some cut off wheels and a pry bar.
There is a total of 5 tabs on each tank that hold it in....i got the 3 that are on the floor, but there is one that is back by the transom thats impossible to get to and the other goes behind the gunnel support. I figure if i remove the gunnel supports, they will slide foward out of the rear glass in tabs....then i can slide them in and put in new gunnel supports after that then re-glass the floor tabs back in....
im trying to avoid removing the seat boxes the interior sits on at all costs. they are solid, but can use some touch up glass. removing them will result in them being destoryed and having to be rebuilt and re-covered.
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yes, chromey brought one of those syphons over.
i learned a valuable lesson about syphoning gas with your mouth (http://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?topic=3715.0) once.
josh (chief broken finger) has a uncle or something that can weld them up for me.
forgot all about this, thanks for the laugh :D
you get my e-mail
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forgot all about this, thanks for the laugh :D
you get my e-mail
yes sir....i emailed brian to make sure hes got them for the right size. i probably wont hear back until mon
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Even though it has a few problems ( what boat dont ) its still a very clean ride... Good luck with her.
Oh and Brad , you look like shiat......... Go to bed :D
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Even though it has a few problems ( what boat dont ) its still a very clean ride... Good luck with her.
Oh and Brad , you look like shiat......... Go to bed :D
thanks.....1.5 more hours till im off and im goin straight to bed. its been a REAL long night.
ill pull the tanks in the afternoon so i can get them welded first thing on monday.
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Damn, I was going to start the bidding at the SoCal required $50. :sly:
J/K all good finds and so far easy fixes, I can share some "turn key" horror stories for you owning a boat shop, you got off easy bro..
GT
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Sooooo, you gonna put the number "CJ5150" on the sides or what? :screwy: ;D
GT
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Sooooo, you gonna put the number "CJ5150" on the sides or what? :screwy: ;D
GT
hell, why not....the class is turning into a cruiser class anyways. ::)
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Chief Broken Finger came by today....we emptied the rest of the gas into the liberty's tanks for now and managed to remove the tanks without too many issues. We were able to remove the gunnel supports and slide them forward and wiggle them out without having to remove the seat boxes the interior sits on.
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The cracks....
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and we rinsed out the tanks...
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Them are some ugly ass welds my brother... :-\
Do the gunwales flex a lot? ???
GT
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the aftermath....
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....and the crack in the floor :banghead:
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and the jacked up glass work on the seat box :banghead:
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Them are some ugly ass welds my brother... :-\
Do the gunwales flex a lot? ???
GT
yeah, they are pretty thin
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This is a redneck backwoods fix, but that has never stopped me before.. ;D
When you get the tanks back in the boat, cut a block of wood the height of the distance between the deck and the top of the tank at the filler necks, then when the tanks are in jamb them between there at the filler neck, it will give the necks a rest and keep the strain from breaking them again, the tanks look too long to do it the "right" way, although I have another idea, but would get more involved... :banghead:
GT
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Have you found anyone you weld your tanks up? I know I'm pretty far from you but I can do it. Let me know.
-Zach
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Have you found anyone you weld your tanks up? I know I'm pretty far from you but I can do it. Let me know.
-Zach
yes, i am still looking for a place to take them....im going to make some calls first thing in the morning.
thanks for the offer, but i need to have these things welded no later then tomorrow afternoon so i can get them back in the boat and glassed in by tomorrow night. I am trying to get a local guy to come carpet it first thing tuesday morning.
I said this is a slam session, i wasnt jokin ;) this thing will be on the water by the weekend.
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I took the tanks to Marine Propeller works off sunset and the 215....they will be done tuesday afternoon.
the guy came by to give me a solid quote on the carpet job....$500 :-\ ...dont know if im going to have him do it or not in fear i know i'll not do as good as work as he will......he isnt available to do it until thursday afternoon.
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kickin' a$$ and takin' names on this one huh Brad? Looks like you really have your work cut out for ya and a pretty harsh timeline. Good luck!
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kickin' a$$ and takin' names on this one huh Brad? Looks like you really have your work cut out for ya and a pretty harsh timeline. Good luck!
tryin to! i refuse to let this boat get me down....i love it too much!
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Take your time, in the shade, Thats what me and Mama did when we put in our carpet.
-beerjet-
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its supposed to rain this weeked :banghead:
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weather.com shows possible rain on friday, partly cloudy and 68 on saturday and sunny and 75 on sunday.
sunday sounds like a good day for her maiden voyage.
if you need an extra set of hands, let me know. i can probably come up with some free time this week.
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havasu's weather is looking better this weekend....I might head down there.
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I took the tanks to Marine Propeller works off sunset and the 215....they will be done tuesday afternoon.
the guy came by to give me a solid quote on the carpet job....$500 :-\ ...dont know if im going to have him do it or not in fear i know i'll not do as good as work as he will......he isnt available to do it until thursday afternoon.
Screw that Brad... you can do anything to a boat so why not do the carpet ? And i bet you get it done for less than half of $500
both times mine cost $150 and that was with a gallon of glue...
leave it in the sun for a bit and then get that carpet laid ;D hell if i was a Vegan , i would come over and do it for you ;)
Do this on your time table not his, Thursday ???............How about today 8)
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well, i priced out the carpet....20oz and 8'x20' (the carpet in the boat goes from the transom to the bow eye)....thats $189 plus shipping and delivery time.
i did the carpet in the liberty once ....i did it all the way up in the ski locker on my belly with a trowl and a bucket of glue...not fun at all.....and the carpet job i did didnt last more then 1 trip...it lifted up and pulled away from the stringers....looked like shit.
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well, i priced out the carpet....20oz and 8'x20' (the carpet in the boat goes from the transom to the bow eye)....thats $189 plus shipping and delivery time.
i did the carpet in the liberty once ....i did it all the way up in the ski locker on my belly with a trowl and a bucket of glue...not fun at all.....and the carpet job i did didnt last more then 1 trip...it lifted up and pulled away from the stringers....looked like shit.
Next time don't lay it down in one piece ;)
is the carpet really that bad , can it last one more season ???
Mine needs to be replaced to, but thats at the end of next winters projects. Im running the bitch ;D
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i think its the original 30 year old carpet....its pretty bad.
the gas leak has eaten up all the carpet glue so non of it is held down....also, when removing the tanks, i had to cut up a few spots.
while i have the interior out (which was a little pain to get out) ...it would be easier to do it now, then later.
also, i would rather not have a seem in the carpet....lay it up in one piece ;)
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Dont blame you on that ....
Re: the seam... ive seen where they lay the floor down and then wrap the stringers and it came out looking seamless...
I will try it next winter and let you know how it goes ;D
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You are really wasting no time on this baby Brad! Glad to see you wanting to replace the carpets while you're at this point. Can't wait to see how it turns out. Even more excited for the wet test and hear what you have to say about it.
Out of curiosity, what is the overall length and the beam of this hull? I really like them a lot, but they seem pretty narrow and not quite 21'... Got measurements?
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so the shop doing the tanks is totally dropping the ball and the carpet guy isnt returning my calls.... you would figure in todays economy these small shops would be ontop of their game :banghead:
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that fuggen sucks...yeah i hate ball droppen...besides if my balls drop i have omar to catch them!...in all reality that fuggen sucks ass...so can i expect to see you guys at viva saturday morn?
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so the shop doing the tanks is totally dropping the ball and the carpet guy isnt returning my calls.... you would figure in todays economy these small shops would be ontop of their game :banghead:
they are all the same :screwy:
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so i got the tanks back....turned out decent...$130 for the job....sucks i had to hound them to get the job done they promised me would be done by tuesday morning....then thuesday night...then sometime today.
i will post pictures in a bit....
still no call back from the carpet guy :mad:
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Dont blame you on that ....
Re: the seam... ive seen where they lay the floor down and then wrap the stringers and it came out looking seamless...
I will try it next winter and let you know how it goes ;D
Thats the way I did my first ever boat carpet job, didnt know squat about it but I laid the floors, the sides and then wrapped the stringers. It looks like one piece, and has held up for three seasons now, and thats with kids in and out also :o Still looks good to this day. Just my .02 Brad
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Here is the tanks
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when ya wanna tune it?
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when ya wanna tune it?
terry, dont know yet...need to get the tanks in it first. if you want to cruise over today and get started, let me know!
do you or anyone know of a good interior shop in vegas? this guy (who advertises on craigslist) is a flake and has seriously wasted my time. :mad:
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I do, Brad, but they're all in PHX. Texted 2 of them to see if they knew of anyone in Vegas for ya tho.
Ray
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Talked to a guy off craigs names George sounded good and reasonable. I'm still sitting on them 'glass buckets. he said he do 'em for around a hundo....I have material. All other bids were like seven or sum stupid shit. "Course I want White tuck N roll on the trailer too. But anyway, the ole lady is headed for cali today till sunday so I'm wide open. I thot we'd start with a compression check cold and dry, keep a record. Ohm plug wires, set valves start it and do carb and timing Viola! We'll do a comp test again after it's been out. Remember my,"turn key" boat? I didnt run it for about a month after I got it, but that thing is like launching a space shuttle mission with all the shit that needs to be checked. I'll call ya when the ole lady splits.
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cool terry...im open for about 1/2 the day (no later then 3pm) then i gotta hit the sack and get some sleep...have to be back at work at 9pm
so ive called several upholstry shops in town...they are all booked 2 weeks out.
i found a marine carpet supplier in town, im going to head up there to see what they got. i'm starting to think i might try to tackle this myself as much as im dreading it.
give me a call when the ol' lady is gone. im going to start getting the tanks set once i get back from getting carpet.
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Home depot had some mirine carpet I think. I gotta roll of red!?
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Home depot had some mirine carpet I think. I gotta roll of red!?
i used that stuff in the liberty last season....it looked like shit after 1 trip.
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OK, you know west Marine is just down the street from here. I got my glue there, $20. I have a bucket but it's at a buddies house and he just moved so you know how that goes.
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Huge thanks to Terry (HDrider)....took the boat over to his place today and got the motor dialed in.....we did a compression check and had a scare...one of the cylinders had zero psi....turned out to be a stuck valve......he went through the valves, adjusted the points, and adjusted the carb....sounds pretty healthy on the trailer.
the tanks are back in....just need to glad them in and do some other minor glass work..... i pick up the carpet first thing in the morning......rain is in the forecast for the next 2 days....we'll see how it the weather goes and if it will allow me to finish this project this weekend.
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Here is the tanks
Those are some nice welds right there...
You weren't kidding around were you? I gotta say I am more than a little impressed, good work guys.
GT
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Nice ass motor too, 990's stock.
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Those are some nice welds right there...
You weren't kidding around were you? I gotta say I am more than a little impressed, good work guys.
GT
you werent around for my liberty build, were you? built it in about 6 weeks to make a race with the help of MANY members of this site.
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you werent around for my liberty build, were you? built it in about 6 weeks to make a race with the help of MANY members of this site.
I'm much better at getting them apart than together, the problem is being a one man show, especially working 60 hour weeks and trying to keep the family happy.
I could build them faster with unlimited funds, but my boat budget has suffered something terrible this year, I just don't know where it all went.
I'm really diggin the looks of that boat.
GT
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thats a sweet boat!
Sweet boat + chicks with tattoos= Good thread!
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Its looking like you will be ready for the weekend, hopefully the weather holds out for you! good luck!
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We couldnt see the timing mark in the sun. I'd like to reindex the dizzy so #1 is front left and I have blue Moroso plug wire goodies for it. This motor is prolly comparable to a stock LS-6. I think the LS-7s had 12:1 comp and mechanical cam, which he dont need.
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nicely done brad...looks like im going to have some more boat time now a days...god i cant effing wait...anyway lemme know if ya need some help...hopefully see you all at viva tomorrow
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i polished the fuel fills today with some zep nordie gave me....god that shit rules....then i got them mounted with new stainless hardware and got them clamped onto the tanks good and snug....tanks are ready to be glassed in.
also, got the floor and seat boxes prepped for other minor glass work....then hosed it out one more time...it will be dry in the morning and ill start gettin high on resin before i head to viva.
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Where do you find "zep" ?
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Brads house
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he he he my zephyr bottle is a whore!
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boat is done...headed to mead....post pics later.
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here some pics of the glass work....i didnt get any pics of the carpet...ill snap some tomorrow.
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...and we couldnt pick a more perfect day to be out on mead....first time i've been on mead. pretty cool...wish we had more daylight.
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all in all, the boat runs like a champ...the carb needs to be dailed in...doesnt idle worth a damn...it rides like a caddy.
and most importantly, the dog loves the boat...it was her first time out and we were nervous if she would like it or not....she loved it.
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looks like a perfect day Brad, that had to feel good.
p-jet
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i love when the lake is like that!
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did i show ya our new stick-on lights?
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if the dog liked it, it's a keeper! looks like a good day on mead brad. how have you never been onthat lake though?
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how have you never been onthat lake though?
I just moved to vegas in october.
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Looks good.
Nice days like that are hard to come by on Mead.
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Looks good.
Nice days like that are hard to come by on Mead.
Not really, I'm on mead all the time
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NICE GOING BRAD!!!...the work came out great as always....looks good and im itching to go out again soon and take my dumb dog too to see how he does...
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Not really, I'm on mead all the time
So am I. Just about every weekend in the summer.
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Congrats on the new boat. Its sweet. Glad it worked out. TC
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how come everyone is at mead all the time and no one hooks up? WTF?
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how come everyone is at mead all the time and no one hooks up? WTF?
Wudda ya doing tomorrow? Workin, i know. I gotta go thru brads carb, then we can all go out ...saturday? Shit, He's goin to Parker
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no go im going to cali this weekend....one last desert trip! the following weekend maybe...imma single guy these days so i can come n go as a please!
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This was my last trip to mead :mad:
Where the fuk do you guys go ???
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fboatdesign.net%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fs_ship_in_huge_waves_and_crazy_storm375.jpg&hash=4bba998c718f32ff5de9ec949e900b850072c5c5)
-beerjet-
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economy = shit = 3rd morgage for toys = lose home = lose toys = less boats = glass.......thats my formula for the recent flat lake mead
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This was my last trip to mead :mad:
Where the fuk do you guys go ???
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fboatdesign.net%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fs_ship_in_huge_waves_and_crazy_storm375.jpg&hash=4bba998c718f32ff5de9ec949e900b850072c5c5)
-beerjet-
That looks like the Lake Mead I know! HaHa.
It's a very nice lake don't get me wrong and there are days where the water is perfect. It just seems there are more rough days than calm.
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I've been on some rough water.
One saturday on mead I literally dropped my off on beach cuz 3' rollers were coming over the bow.
I needed gas so I figured if my boat goes down only one of us would die.
I honestly swore my life off that trip into Callville Bay.
Same weekend trip I got married in vegas.
-beerjet-
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I've been caught on mead and mojave when the wind came up but like i've said before on here, the only time the ole lady ever said turn around was at Parker. Look at all the Mead threads, flat as a pancake and not another boat in sight.
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Now dont get me wrong, ive seen mead like that and had to go rescue our boats that got blown aground when i worked at Callville. But a wake barge convention at Parker just as bad and infested with retards on jetskies. I wonder how many people get killed there every big weekend. Like the guy who whipped his kid on a tube into the side of a parked toon boat at RR or foxes. I dont know, you cant see those places with all the thirty footers parked ALL the way around them ALL DAMN DAY.
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ok, slam session is over...time to work out the bugs...
this weeks project is going to get the gremlins out of the carb....it just wont idle worth a damn....could be a fuel pressure issue...float bowls too high/low...dont know...but will soon find out!
for some reason (i've been told many possibilities as to why) this motor was rigged with both an electric and mechanical fuel pump....the electric fuel pump stopped working shortly after i got the boat.....so today i traced out the wires and found out its hooked up to a switch that was turned off under the dash. i saw this switch before and assumed it was just a anti theft kill switch :screwy: ....nope, toggle switch for the electric pump.
so with the two fuel pumps in unison...maybe its getting too much pressure....maybe the electric pump wasnt allowing the mechanical to draw enough flow when the electical was shut off......im not sure.......that being said there is no fuel pressure gauge or regulator....so first things first....redo the fuel lines to allow for both a gauge and regulator.
the motor is set up with hard lines...pretty, but no where to put in a regulator or gauge.....so with some pieces i have left around, and an order put into summit for the odds and ends i need to make it happen, i should have this done by the end of the week and be testing on mead with nordie this weekend.
this is what i had...
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6547.0;attach=24210;image)
hard fuel line removed...
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and the light mockup of what im trying to accomplish...
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Brad, just my opinion , but if your doing what i think you are. You are gauranteed a leak, reg at the end of your fuel log will eventually work something loose or break. maybe i see it wrong..
i would recommend this set up.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/8192/10002/-1
Or just this , since you have alot to work with now.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/8189/10002/-1
I bought the plate a diff, reg and a reg kit from summit for mine. i think it turned out great.
get it from Summit its all in stock, i just used Jegs as a reference (sp)
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Your idle screw on the passenger side was totaly unresponsive. I'd keep douching the air bleeds and maybe pull the metering block and clean real good with carb cleaner. Then of course set the floats.
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Your idle screw on the passenger side was totaly unresponsive. I'd keep douching the air bleeds and maybe pull the metering block and clean real good with carb cleaner. Then of course set the floats.
im takin steps at this point...been makin too many changes at once. i need to first set the baseline and make sure i got the right fuel pressure. then move to the floats, idle screws, etc.
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Brad, just my opinion , but if your doing what i think you are. You are gauranteed a leak, reg at the end of your fuel log will eventually work something loose or break. maybe i see it wrong..
i got a bracket that im going to use. i see what you mean about it being loose and movin around causing a leak. ill keep that in mind.
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Your idle screw on the passenger side was totaly unresponsive. I'd keep douching the air bleeds and maybe pull the metering block and clean real good with carb cleaner. Then of course set the floats.
If it wont idle, the air bleeds are probably the culprit.
Really wish I could help you otherwise. :-\
-beerjet-
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If it wont idle, the air bleeds are probably the culprit.
Really wish I could help you otherwise. :-\
-beerjet-
it idles fine after it warms up...it also surges and idles irregularly when warm.
the idle isnt all of my problem either....when at WOT....it slowly drops rpm's in steps....and if you take your foot out of it, it stalls hard....and takes a bit of cranking over to fire it up again and it blows a ton of black smoke out (flooded).
so again, thats why im starting with getting a baseline for fuel pressure under wraps before i start banging my head on adjusting the carb.
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SELL IT! ;D
J/K
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SELL IT! ;D
J/K
ya, who in their right mind would sell a boat right after they bought it ;D
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it idles fine after it warms up...it also surges and idles irregularly when warm.
the idle isnt all of my problem either....when at WOT....it slowly drops rpm's in steps....and if you take your foot out of it, it stalls hard....and takes a bit of cranking over to fire it up again and it blows a ton of black smoke out (flooded).
so again, thats why im starting with getting a baseline for fuel pressure under wraps before i start banging my head on adjusting the carb.
Hey Brad, sounds to me like the throttle shaft bushings are kapoot...wiggle the throttle shaft up and down, should barely move...
You can get some white spray grease and spray the shaft area to see if it temporarily makes things stabilize...
With worn throttle shafts, they are a biatch to get adjusted...
GT
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Hey Brad, sounds to me like the throttle shaft bushings are kapoot...wiggle the throttle shaft up and down, should barely move...
You can get some white spray grease and spray the shaft area to see if it temporarily makes things stabilize...
With worn throttle shafts, they are a biatch to get adjusted...
GT
hmm....ill check it out tomorrow morning after work. thanks for the suggestion.
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ya, who in their right mind would sell a boat right after they bought it ;D
I had both my jetboat listed before I even got 'em home.........Oh you said right mind didnt you?
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I had both my jetboat listed before I even got 'em home.........Oh you said right mind didnt you?
the comment was directed at nick - rumor is that his new toy is on the market already ;D
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ya, who in their right mind would sell a boat right after they bought it ;D
Nobody that I know! :screwy: ;D
O0
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Surging is almost always floats but with that pump off who knows. Flooding is usually needle and seat or floats. I'm going out tomorrow gonna set the floats in the water.......IF it aint windy. That unresponsive idle screw has me concerned, the other one tuned in at one turn out, perfect.
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i got the fpr and gauge on today....frp i had broke because i tightened the NPT fitting in too hard and split it..... i have the worst luck with NPT stuff....either it leaks or i bust whatever housing im screwing them into....2nd time ive done this.....terry lent me a replacement until i can order a new one....also put a return spring on cause i caught the carb sticking open when adjusting the idle rpm's.
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with both fuel pumps running, its only producing 6 lbs even if i open the regulator all the way open.
when i first fire up the motor...it revs up then idles down and stalls out...wont stay running unless i keep pumpin the throddle. it wont just start either...gotta give it a pump or two then it fires.....then stalls.
i ran out of time tonight to work on it as i had to had off to work, but maybe tomorrow terry and i will hit the lake and readjust the floats and stuff.
i was able to get the passanger side primary idle set screw to react....unsure why it wasnt acting up before. im going to take the QFT carb with me and swap it out at the lake if i have to...id rather figure out whats up with this carb before i have to resort to that.
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oh yeah, there is a fuel filter / water seperator deal in the mix of this....im going to pick up a new filter on the way to the lake at west marine just to eliminate that as a problem as well.
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Vacuum leak.....probably the throttle plate to the bottom of the venturi block screws loose, or the intake is leaking somewhere.
You are describing a large vacuum leak to a tee. Next time it fires, place a shop towel over the inlet of the carb. to choke it up a little, if it runs better, it's "stupid lean".
The biggest weak link on a BBC is the intake manifold to head, gasket surface. If they are not torqued properly (sequence, not tightness there Bam Bam) :sly:, bank on a leaker...
I had a 454 burn three quarts of oil in 500 miles on my 3/4 ton 4x4, turns out a bad intake manifold from Weiand (Stealth), put on a new manifold and gaskets and problem magically disapeared, strange part is it ran really good...
GT