SoCal Jet Boats

Discussion => The No Wake Zone => Topic started by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 03:47:04 PM

Title: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 03:47:04 PM
So I'm putting the bowl on the housing and it stops before it even hits the gasket. I put dabs of grease on the impeller and shaft to try to find what's making it bottom out but when I put it on and take it off the grease hasn't touched anything. Has anyone seen or heard of this. Do I have to machine something. The old housing was cracked along the bolt holes and now I think I know why. If the bolts were pulling on it the whole time i could see it being to much stress for the housing and pop it breaks. Hope someone can help thanks
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: East County Kona on March 19, 2016, 04:19:20 PM
Same shaft, same bowl bearings?


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Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 05:39:27 PM
Sometimes the bowl seal hydrostatic locks on the shaft.  Pull the bowl plug and try again.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 05:48:00 PM
Same shaft same bearings.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 05:48:18 PM
What plug is in the bowl
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 05:53:06 PM
I've tried Hella times man and it always stops at the same spot and it sounds like it seats on something but its not on the suction housing.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 05:53:44 PM
It goes on smooth the whole way
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 05:58:36 PM
No stuffer plate?
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 06:07:39 PM
My bad eck they are new bearings same shaft
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 06:17:00 PM
 I put the bowl on a table and it's tapered in. So the outside has a gap. I wouldn't think that's right but I've been wrong before.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 06:18:02 PM
I put the bowl on a table and it's tapered in. So the outside has a gap. I wouldn't think that's right but I've been wrong before.

What is tapered?
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: GT Jets on March 19, 2016, 06:18:17 PM
Pull the oil fill plug like Flusher said.

Did you change the end plug?
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 06:18:48 PM
No stuffer
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 06:21:47 PM
No stuffer

I hope someone didn't try to face that bowl
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: GT Jets on March 19, 2016, 06:29:09 PM
I hope someone didn't try to face that bowl

Hmmm....


Does the impeller turn stupid easy?

GT
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 06:31:13 PM
Gt it's a early dominator so there is no oil for the pump right. Thats a question not a statement.  Don't know what the end plug is but I would think it's a plug ont he end of the bowl which it doesn't have one but if I'm wrong let me know.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 06:32:03 PM
Not super easy. You can feel some resistance
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 06:32:41 PM
The bowl should be flat right
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: GT Jets on March 19, 2016, 06:37:22 PM
The bowl should be flat right

Perfectly.

Did you pull it apart?  And how did you get it off?

Look for cracks around the bearing hole.

You likely have a water lubed bowl.

Did you try thumping it diagonally with a rubber mallet? Not too hard.

GT
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 06:41:44 PM
Sounds water lubricating.

The face with the 1/2-13 suction bolts and the large inside diameter adjacent to that face are the datums to maintain consentricity of the bowl bushings and the shaft.  If that face is no longer flat and perpendicular to the bore, the shaft and impeller will bind.

Without the packings installed, it should turn freely with no sticking spots.  Only light drag from the seals.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 06:44:01 PM
Also listen while turning it
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 07:18:54 PM
I pulled it apart for the first time since I've owned it. When I did there was a gap on the outside just like the picture shows. And you can see where the gasket mating surface was and it's before the bolt holes start. Can I machine the bowl flat or will I have clearance issues further back with the impeller or shaft to bowl.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 07:21:18 PM
What is facing a bowl. Like flusher said.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: GT Jets on March 19, 2016, 07:24:13 PM
What is facing a bowl. Like flusher said.


That's when you have had way too much to drink, but are still coherent enough to make it to a toilet to puke and make it without getting any on your shoes.


Hahaha. .

Seriously though,  that's when someone does exactly what you just asked about. Somethings wonky.

GT
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 07:34:06 PM
I pulled it apart for the first time since I've owned it. When I did there was a gap on the outside just like the picture shows. And you can see where the gasket mating surface was and it's before the bolt holes start. Can I machine the bowl flat or will I have clearance issues further back with the impeller or shaft to bowl.

You can take it back about 3/16" before the impeller starts get close.  You do lose some thread engagement.  I can't make out if you have the deep or shallow flange bowl.  As long as you have good thread engagement (1.5 x diameter minimum).

The real issue is bringing that surface back perpendicular to the shaft.

I can't tell what bowl you have from the pictures.  It may not be worth trying to save it.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 07:52:39 PM
Ok so I think I got this figured out. I have plenty of threads if I get it true flat again so that's not a problem and it's less than 3\16 of a taper so the impeller or shaft nut won't hit the bowl so I'm going to take it to machine shop Monday and when they get it flat ill see if the bowl rubs on anything and if it does  I'll toss is and buy a new bowl if it doesn't hit anythig and bolts up flat I'll run it right.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 07:54:01 PM
Does anyone make a tapered bowl or what. Why does the bowl look like it was machine tapered.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 07:54:52 PM
Or was this some backyard build
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
And how or why would a bowl get like that
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 08:04:45 PM
You say you have history with this pump?  First, the questions before a possible solution.

Why did you take apart?

How did it look when you inspected it?  Were there signs of rubbing?

Were the bowl bushings just needing freshening up from normal wear or were the old ones through because the shaft was binding from bowl misalignment?

Was the pump making noise?

Are the impeller and wear ring showing unusual or uneven wear?  Any burn marks from repeated or continuous contact?

Did the bowl gasket leak or fail?

If you can say;  1.) You didn't have any serious issues with the pump before.  2.) There is no rubbing or tight spots with all eight bowl bolts torqued.  3.) You didn't have any bowl gasket issues before.  I might suggest running it as is.

Be honest, failure could destroy the entire pump at the most inopportune time.

You might be able to get away with running it as is.

For the record, I would scrap it regardless.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
First, 3/16" is HUGE in terms of machine tolerance.  If you have it machined, only take off enough to clean up the surface and make it flat.

Possible causes of the taper: tool wear during the machining operation.  Improper setup.  It wasn't properly clamped during machining.  It is also possible that some pump guru tried to machine that surface to move the stator vanes closer to the impeller and reduce the internal volume.

Here is the thing with machining these bowls like this.  Each end of the bowl is machined, at the factory, in a different setup.  That means that the droop surface is not parallel to the suction surface.  You can't just slap it down on the mill table and take a cut.  Indicating it in a lathe is not a simple task either.  We don't usually get involved in jobs that reqire this work.

Weigh the cost/benefit of machining vs. replacement.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 09:09:14 PM
The housing had a Crack from the bottom right bolt hole to top and the boat was taking on more water than normal. That's why it came out. After seeing where the crack was and now knowing that the bowl wasn't flush the bolts being tightened on the bowl cracked the housing. It ran fine just started leaking water from one to many hard runs I guess.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 09:11:41 PM
It sounds right. Right. I mean it sounds like that could happen.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 09:26:03 PM
So the bowl is somehow matched with the housing so the pump doesn't kill itself or bushings by being not straight. If  I buy a bowl how would I know it's going to the same angle as the suction and shaft or am I over thinking the whole thing. 
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 09:30:28 PM
Here's another pic of the bowl
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 10:06:57 PM
Oh, now I recall

I would put The feelers out for another bowl.  At this point, I am not prepared to go in to depth on the topic of inspecting a used bowl.

If you go the machine shop route, make sure they have the capability to make that surface perpendicular to the bushing bore centerline.  I would write that on the part before you drop it off.
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: Flusher on March 19, 2016, 10:08:48 PM
Here's another pic of the bowl

WOW!
Title: Re: Bowl not fitting
Post by: spyve1372 on March 19, 2016, 10:11:13 PM
Right just sayin
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