SoCal Jet Boats
Discussion => The No Wake Zone => Topic started by: ChaseThisToo on May 13, 2016, 09:02:21 AM
-
I'm hoping a few of you seasoned veterans can help a new guy out. To say I'm green is an understatement. I'm here to learn and any help is appreciated.
I have an '88 20.5 Carrera Elite family cruiser and I love it. She rides nice and keeps my wife happy. My issue is I want to make her faster. I have a great motor builder that used to build all Teague Marine's off shore motors and currently builds all my race motors for my off road program. He keeps telling me that I need to build the pump before the motor. He says he can build a big old motor for it but its only going to pump so much water...makes sense.
My question for you guys, is 70mph even reachable in a boat like mine? (she currently runs 55 with just me and 47 with the family and full tanks) I guess it depends on what I do to it but I'm trying to get a base idea of what I should do before i start tearing into it. Thanks again and hope to see you guys out on the water.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
-
"the power is in the pump"
With that said, you can only make a pump work so good with so much hp
If you have a good tight pump, then the more power you put in front of it, the more thrust you will get.
Is 70 possible in your hull? Yes. Im sure it will take a pretty decent amount of HP. But its doable.
A solid 650hp should get you there i would think. But that is a pretty heavy hull.
What RPM are you doing now? What impeller?
-
I'm hoping a few of you seasoned veterans can help a new guy out. To say I'm green is an understatement. I'm here to learn and any help is appreciated.
I have an '88 20.5 Carrera Elite family cruiser and I love it. She rides nice and keeps my wife happy. My issue is I want to make her faster. I have a great motor builder that used to build all Teague Marine's off shore motors and currently builds all my race motors for my off road program. He keeps telling me that I need to build the pump before the motor. He says he can build a big old motor for it but its only going to pump so much water...makes sense.
My question for you guys, is 70mph even reachable in a boat like mine? (she currently runs 55 with just me and 47 with the family and full tanks) I guess it depends on what I do to it but I'm trying to get a base idea of what I should do before i start tearing into it. Thanks again and hope to see you guys out on the water.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
OMHO, 70 is a lofty goal.
That hull is designed for the family of four to go 55 mph and do it in style and comfort.
For that rig to do an honest 70, it needs virtually everything.
I would not set the pump back, but a show, rideplate, droop, Diverter, stainless impeller, inducer, good loader ate all going to be needed to support the 700 or so hp to get you to 70.
I own a 92 Carrera Elite 20.5 that I have been building for years (total budget build) and my intention is to get it to go 72mph. With a small block and Alpha 1 gen 2 outdrive.
Just in the interior alone I was able to trim an estimated 400 pounds, another 150 in the construction of the floor.
Using a small block saved me another 200. That's like going from 9 people to only one horse jockey.
Weight is the enemy. Especially on a jet.
How fast is it now and what mods have been done?
Any estimation on horsepower?
How thick is your wallet?
That last one stops most. Lol
One thing to remember, to go fast means more fuel, more noise, more breakage, fewer drivers and most importantly, less reliability.
If the wife is ok with all that, your 90% there. Lol
Me personally, I would build a hot rod. On the end, it would probably be cheaper. Those divorce lawyers to do much pro Bono.
GT
-
just spray the living shit out of it :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
-
Hey Glenn, why 72 mph? Not 70? Not 75? But 72?
-
What RPM are you doing now? What impeller?
Assuming the tach is correct right around 5 grand. Its a 454 BBC. I was told it has an A/B impeller
-
Assuming the tach is correct right around 5 grand. Its a 454 BBC. I was told it has an A/B impeller
15 mph in your hull will take a lot more thrust. That means more rpm or a bigger impeller. A bigger impeller, means more HP to spin it.
Its possible but all of the things GT said apply.
Though one, i am curious, why does he NEED a stainless impeller? Why not an aluminum AA that he can spin to 5k or 5500 with more power?
-
How fast is it now and what mods have been done?
Any estimation on horsepower?
How thick is your wallet?
I bought the boat last year and haven't touched it...which is a miracle all by itself.
Here is what I know...
It will run 55 with just me in it topped out. I don't know if there are any mods done to the motor but she feels tight and not beat on.
No idea on horse power.
I have a budget in mind of 5k for both motor and pump but don't know how far that will get me.
I guess my ultimate goal is not to be full throttle everywhere I go. I'd like to cruise around 55 and if I need it have more to go. 70mph was just my goal...you always have to set them just out of reach.
-
according to the impeller chart, if you have an AB now, youre making about 400 hp. Probably a stock 454
-
I bought the boat last year and haven't touched it...which is a miracle all by itself.
Here is what I know...
It will run 55 with just me in it topped out. I don't know if there are any mods done to the motor but she feels tight and not beat on.
No idea on horse power.
I have a budget in mind of 5k for both motor and pump but don't know how far that will get me.
I guess my ultimate goal is not to be full throttle everywhere I go. I'd like to cruise around 55 and if I need it have more to go. 70mph was just my goal...you always have to set them just out of reach.
Don't take this the wrong way, not insulting your intelligence, but $5k will get you just a tick past 60mph.
JMHO
GT
-
Don't take this the wrong way, not insulting your intelligence, but $5k will get you just a tick past 60mph.
JMHO
GT
No offense taken. I'm new to this and have no idea of what things cost.
The problem is I have to many damn hobbies and I'm currently building another race car so most of the coin is tied up in that.
-
No offense taken. I'm new to this and have no idea of what things cost.
The problem is I have to many damn hobbies and I'm currently building another race car so most of the coin is tied up in that.
Then enjoy the crap out of the nice cruiser that you have this summer. Then in the future build you a hot rod jet that does 80! Ya!! More is better!!
-
Hey Glenn, why 72 mph? Not 70? Not 75? But 72?
I knew that would raise an eyebrow.
My dad, way back when I had my boat shop, found a Crusader 23 on the side of the road for sale.
He called me and said "can you make it go 70mph?".
I said "it's only money".lol
He bought the boat and the trailer (tri axle Trail Rite brand new) for $1,500.
I wanted to go with a 5.7L magnum efi Mercruiser repower package at 350 hp(had one in the shop brand new).
He wanted "big block power and thru hull exhaust".
The boat has a best GPS speed of 71mph with a raised X dimension on a Bravo I and a 454. He is totally happy. We have about $13k in the boat doing most of the work ourselves (you should see the motor mounts I built for it).
Anyway, I built an iron headed 5.7 Vortec that makes 398 hp at 5,300 Rpm on a hydro dynamometer (uses water for the medium).
That Carrera has to do 72. For the record, I'm in my Carrera $820 with a tube Extreme trailer, but I'm in it for four years.
Make sense?
GT
-
Perfect sense! Thanks! Carry on
-
I knew that would raise an eyebrow.
My dad, way back when I had my boat shop, found a Crusader 23 on the side of the road for sale.
He called me and said "can you make it go 70mph?".
I said "it's only money".lol
He bought the boat and the trailer (tri axle Trail Rite brand new) for $1,500.
I wanted to go with a 5.7L magnum efi Mercruiser repower package at 350 hp(had one in the shop brand new).
He wanted "big block power and thru hull exhaust".
The boat has a best GPS speed of 71mph with a raised X dimension on a Bravo I and a 454. He is totally happy. We have about $13k in the boat doing most of the work ourselves (you should see the motor mounts I built for it).
Anyway, I built an iron headed 5.7 Vortec that makes 398 hp at 5,300 Rpm on a hydro dynamometer (uses water for the medium).
That Carrera has to do 72. For the record, I'm in my Carrera $820 with a tube Extreme trailer, but I'm in it for four years.
Make sense?
GT
Its been a while, but the bahner has done 72 with a vortec headed small block...
One of the best ways to go with a small block imo. We just need to throw a smaller cam in it
-
Bravo?
Alpha?
These speeds meaningless in relation to a BERKELEY jet drive.
At ~500hp on a big 21', I was at 57, gps'd, upriver, full of fuel, coolers, gear, 4 people, etc.
As Glenn said, weight is a huge factor on a jet.
I've researched into my hull, and it good to about 70, then it gets unstable. How much HP? I don't know, lot$, and then $ome, I'd guess.
Reliability goes down as HP goes up, too
Dan'l
-
Bravo?
Alpha?
These speeds meaningless in relation to a BERKELEY jet drive.
At ~500hp on a big 21', I was at 57, gps'd, upriver, full of fuel, coolers, gear, 4 people, etc.
As Glenn said, weight is a huge factor on a jet.
I've researched into my hull, and it good to about 70, then it gets unstable. How much HP? I don't know, lot$, and then $ome, I'd guess.
Reliability goes down as HP goes up, too
Dan'l
They actually aren't meaningless, I have the same hull and was able to trim a ridiculous amount of fat from it, that was the intent of my post. I was asked a specific question about my boat, I answered it.
Back off on the Rock Stars there Bro. Lol
-
No rock stars here-
I guess I need to try a different prop.
Dan'l
-
Well I'll chime in but all its going to do is back up everything everyone already stated...
First off remember the black boat parked next to you at the Avi? Thats mine. 21ft open bow with heavy ass hull, heavy ass interior, stereo blah blah blah... Needless to say shes a big girl as far as jet boats go! That being said Im deep in the 70's full of fuel and loaded with 4 people and coolers. But its costed me cubic dollars. I went 509" of chevy with a huffer on top pushing through a chiller, roller, aluminum heads etc etc... Put this same motor in these little 18 footers and I could play on the top ten list. But for me; entertaining friends and going farther distances mean more to me than an occasional blip past 90mph. Theres not a trip I go out where I dont think about the good ol days of a stock 454 and a reliable 50mph and 50 gallons of fuel lasted all day!!!
I think my point is this, yours and my boats were designed to haul a few people around the lake or river all day but not really a race hull. If you want to throw a few bucks at the pump I say go for it. But Id reconsider chasing 70+mph in a cruiser. JMHO
Free advice is worth what you pay for it...nuthin!! Have fun
Beautiful boat btw
One fast station wagon!!!
-
Id be happy doing 60 in my tank. But im not even sure if im hitting 50!!!
-
Well I'll chime in but all its going to do is back up everything everyone already stated...
First off remember the black boat parked next to you at the Avi? Thats mine. 21ft open bow with heavy ass hull, heavy ass interior, stereo blah blah blah... Needless to say shes a big girl as far as jet boats go! That being said Im deep in the 70's full of fuel and loaded with 4 people and coolers. But its costed me cubic dollars. I went 509" of chevy with a huffer on top pushing through a chiller, roller, aluminum heads etc etc... Put this same motor in these little 18 footers and I could play on the top ten list. But for me; entertaining friends and going farther distances mean more to me than an occasional blip past 90mph. Theres not a trip I go out where I dont think about the good ol days of a stock 454 and a reliable 50mph and 50 gallons of fuel lasted all day!!!
I think my point is this, yours and my boats were designed to haul a few people around the lake or river all day but not really a race hull. If you want to throw a few bucks at the pump I say go for it. But Id reconsider chasing 70+mph in a cruiser. JMHO
Free advice is worth what you pay for it...nuthin!! Have fun
Beautiful boat btw
One fast station wagon!!!
I agree well put sir" 55 mph blasting stereo and cold ass beers.. I'll take that all day. . 😎👍🍻
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
-
I've got a '79 19' Baja with a 496 ci making 565 hp. I have a B stainless impeller and a tight pump. The pump has a straight snoot from HiTechPerformance. It also has a ride plate. I have an inducer also.
Engine exhaust is thru transom Lightning Headers. It runs 71 on GPS. As you can see it's a heavy boat but the pump and motor make it all work.
Your aluminum impeller will probably handle the load until one time you are hauling ass and unload the pump going over a wave. When you land back in the water and reload the impeller is when you are going to have a hand grenade type event. Maybe not the first time but eventually. Stainless or at least brass is a must.
5 grand is a start. But we all go over budget.
-
Anyway you look at it at least you have a nice looking boat. Being bit by the speed bug can hurt. How do you think I feel, i just did a blower install for my Dad and he is turning close to 100 while I'm the 70's with the same exact hull....SMH
IMO, I would put a small blower on it, something that you won't have to do a ton of other work and you will likely gain a min. of 5 MPH and maybe 8-10, maybe. Someone made a good point about the increased maintenance that goes hand in hand with more HP, sometimes its just nice to fill it up with fuel and go.
-
What's up guys I have a 79 eliminator sprint Berkeley drive the drive has been blue printed to turn down the clearance for less cavitation powered by a 460 30 over that's pretty hot with tunnel ram an 2 650 holly my problem I'm having is when I'm on it it handles great till I'm getting pretty high in mph don't know how high haven't GPS it but it starts to get out of control nose wants to dive in an get squirlie on me what would be my best bet to get the handling better or have I just gotten the pump an drive to out perform my haul ?
-
My 79 eliminator sprint
-
What's up guys I have a 79 eliminator sprint Berkeley drive the drive has been blue printed to turn down the clearance for less cavitation powered by a 460 30 over that's pretty hot with tunnel ram an 2 650 holly my problem I'm having is when I'm on it it handles great till I'm getting pretty high in mph don't know how high haven't GPS it but it starts to get out of control nose wants to dive in an get squirlie on me what would be my best bet to get the handling better or have I just gotten the pump an drive to out perform my haul ?
Sounds like a setup issue to me.
-
As fare as what
-
It could be a lot of things. Shoe,loader,ride plate diverter angle. The nose should not be in the water at high speeds. Are you sure it's not chime walking? There is quite a few guys with sprints on here and never heard anyone complain of this.
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
-
As fare as what
Does it have a shoe, ride plate, loader, and how far is it sticking below keel.
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
We built a 78 sprint with blower deal about a year ago and ran really well for what it was. Had a shoe, ride plate, and a decent loader in it and ran in the 85-90 mark. Never did anything funny on the top end. But was hard to get aired out with that delta pad.
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
Nothing but the jet drive no ride plate original loader
-
.
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
It stays on plane with the nose up till high speed then acts like it's is nosing in almost like the ass is coming out of the water an try to steer to the left a little on its own I think my mph is just to hight for not having the ride plate an all the other goodies
-
It stays on plane with the nose up till high speed then acts like it's is nosing in almost like the ass is coming out of the water an try to steer to the left a little on its own I think my mph is just to hight for not having the ride plate an all the other goodies
Would you simulate it to porposing
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
I don't even know what that is lol sorry
-
I don't even know what that is lol sorry
lol no biggie, do you have a place diverter on the boat
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
No just the stock jet with internal milling to turn down the clearance
-
No just the stock jet with internal milling to turn down the clearance
Might wanna try a place diverter. I believe Sean doesn't have a ride plate on his and it rides fine without it. He also went back between a droop and straight snoot. Try giving him a pm 81sprint to verify his set up
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
Perfect thank you the boat is completely original other than the jet work an motor work it probably hasn't been on the water 20 times since pulled off the show room in 79
-
Perfect thank you the boat is completely original other than the jet work an motor work it probably hasn't been on the water 20 times since pulled off the show room in 79
Yes I saw that! Very nice time capsuled piece. Love the brown diamond stick Interrior. 👍🏻👍🏻 very nice float bud!!
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
I'm probably going to end up getting rid of it it's to fast for the wife she's wanting a wake boat I'm probably going to try trading for a mid engine nautique or something similar if you know anyone an thank you for your help an info
-
I'm probably going to end up getting rid of it it's to fast for the wife she's wanting a wake boat I'm probably going to try trading for a mid engine nautique or something similar if you know anyone an thank you for your help an info
No problem GLWS!!
BECKY WITH THE GOOD HAIR!
-
I'm probably going to end up getting rid of it it's to fast for the wife she's wanting a wake boat I'm probably going to try trading for a mid engine nautique or something similar if you know anyone an thank you for your help an info
Yea Buddy.. I'd have to think about that one.
-
Lol why do you say that
-
You should be able to run some decent mph without a ride plate. Your description almost sounds like a forn of porpoising to me.
Split bowl?
-
I'm in a semi v hull as well. I can run from 50-85mph and my hull is as stable at 80 as it is at 50. I'm running a loader a droop and a place diverter. No ride plate no shoe. That'll be my next upgrade maybe in the winter. Shooting for that 90 mark. Also just a thing to think about I like to run my place diverter up to gain some lift and speed but I will run it all the way down in the chop and doesn't nose dive or get unstable. I'd say you got something going on are both fins on the intake??
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
-
Check and see if the bottom has a hook in it!
-
Kinda sounds like he doesn't have enough hp to carry the nose?
Sent from my shop setting in my boat making motor noises
-
I doubt it's a horsepower deal. I had a '78 Eliminator Bubbledeck, which is the same delta pad bottom as this boat and I was running ~350hp. Mine only ran up to 65ish, but I never felt a hint of the boat doing anything weird.
Stock Berk JC, rock grate, and diverter.
A diverter is never a bad idea.
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats