SoCal Jet Boats
Discussion => The No Wake Zone => Topic started by: Huklebuk on November 18, 2008, 12:44:42 PM
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So I developed a leak in the differential on my expedition, and since I was having a sway bar brace installed anyway, I had them take a look at it. So they said they would and call me with a quote. So I get the phone call. 205 fucking dollars to replace the fluid and reseal the diff! What in the flying fuck costs so much I ask, politely. Couldn't be the labor I mean its 12 bolts and a gasket. Turns out the scandolous bastards are using some high speed gear oil that costs, get this, 22 fucking dollars a QUART! Thats right, 22 of my hard earned dollars per QUART. Last time i checked a barrel of oil was like 55 bucks. So by my math if you turn one barrel into this magic diff oil you make a gross profit of 4790 dollars, per 55 gallons. I mean did they put gold in it or what? Apparently I need to enter the lubrication business. Ok end rant. On another note is anyone going to be out on lake mead this friday? I'm taking the boat out for a spin.
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thats a dealership for ya... :screwy:
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The morning paper says 6 GM dealerships in the IE have gone out of biz since March of this year. You are probably lucky you even got your ride back. I'm not saying that its right and I would be pissed too but they are doing what they can to keep the doors open. I bet they aren't selling too many Expeditions these days.
I used to have a supercharged Gran Prix. A 4 oz bottle of supercharger oil was $16 and that was in 1998. It took almost the whole bottle at 50K miles too. Really glad I checked it that day ::)
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Hey Huk, I got a leak on my 99 Expedition rear end also. Mine happenend when a tow truck driver was backing up to tow it for me and the fool didnt pay attention and ran into the cover :mad: Anyhow I fixed it myself. There is NO gasket, you just use a tube of blck silicone. The oil I bought from NAPA auto parts, wasnt the cheapest of oils but not near as bad as the dealers deal. Was a real quick repair job, hell didnt even need to jack the exxpe up ;D just my .02
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Yeah if I'd have known they where going to scam me like that I woulda done it myself. But like I said it was already there to have the sway bar strut done, and I didn't want to drive it with the fluid so low the 25 miles home and break a gear.
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Actually as much as I hate to say it, that's a typical price, the oil is a synthetic 70-140 gear oil that costs a bunch of dough, if you were to do it yourself it would cost about $90... you are not getting screwed but it sure feels like it...BTW the oil in there is supossed to be changed at 500 miles and switched to the synthetic stuff...I have a 2005 F250 SD powerstroke and they quoted me $180 for a rear diff service, I used Amsoil and did it myself... ;)
Welcome to newer vehicles, remember the old days, you could change every fluid in the car for $40 and an hour of your time...
I have an '06 Honda CRV I had to change the rear end diff fluid (all wheel drive) at 20,000 miles due to a howl, the manual says change the fluid at 100,000, $25 a quart and the howl went away, what a pile of crap!!!!!!!..
GT
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you could have taken it to pep boys and when it blew up you'd be begging the dealer to help you blame it on them.
sorry bro i work at a dealership and see that shit happen all the time. did they do the work without calling you to let you know how much it was going to cost.
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Ok, so maybe, just maybe I can let the 22 dollar lube slide. Thats where I thought the bulk of the cost was going. Nope charged me a 115 in labor. WTF? Now I understand that mechs need to get paid. But 115 dollars an hour? Oh and lets not forget the 23 dollar bottle of whatever gasket sealer they used. Maybe if the dealership wasn't constantly fucking people over with outrageous labor charges and overcharging for everything, people would be more inclined to take their cars to the dealership. Now why do people take their cars to pep boys and jiffy lube? Because they can't afford an 80 dollar oil change. Just for grins I checked with jiffy lube to see how much they would charge to change the fluid and reseal the diff. 89.99. So if you can honestly justify why a the ford tech needs to charge over a hundred dollars more for doing the exact same thing then I will gladly pay. But the last time I checked it was still just a differential with gears in it, fill plug and some gasket maker you can pick up at autozone for 6 bucks a tube.
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take it to jiffy lube and see what you get for the 89.99, almost guarantee they call you back and say that your vehicle is "special" and upsell the crap out of you. i have been in the auto repair business for 22yrs (all i have ever done), i have wrenched, managed, written service, about every aspect for independents, i used to love it when my customers would threated to take their cars out of my shop to go to jiffy lube, brake masters any of the discount places, i would tell that if the other place did the same work for the price they quoted without trying to upsell a bunch of un-needed shit, I would pay for their repair at the other place...i never once had to pay, and that was the last time any of those clients second guessed what i quoted or recommended. dealership techs are trained and know the car/truck they are working on, they can tell when something is not right, most jiffy lube employees are 6-8 per hour kids doing the work. it is a matter of who do you want to trust to 40k truck to?? someone trained to work on it, or someone making a little over minimum wage to work on it? sorry my rant is over now ;D
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Labor rate at my Truck & RV shop...
Commercial & light duty $110.00hr
Motorhomes $125.00hr
Gotta agree with FORKEDUP about the economy shops using a very low price to get you in the door and then start adding on the extras...
Oh, that price doesn't include ....
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Ok Ok you 2 win. Still doesn't mean I gotta be happy about it.
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well i have to take my little focus to the dealer bc of a check engine light that has something to do with the fuel system. guy at the local shop doesnt know how the system works :screwy:
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dealership techs are trained and know the car/truck they are working on, they can tell when something is not right, most jiffy lube employees are 6-8 per hour kids doing the work. it is a matter of who do you want to trust to 40k truck to?? someone trained to work on it, or someone making a little over minimum wage to work on it?
Not so true if you are any of the GM dealers in my area. On my 97 Gran Prix the tranny was worked on 3x ("We are waiting for Detroit to tell us how to fix it") Replaced the entire steering rack (after claiming it was just dry bushings - more WD40 will do it LOL) Replaced entire main wiring harness because they couldn't make engine light go out. Replace the window motor "just because" for an intermittent problem - didn't solve (after that they refused to work on it because it was an inconvenience and didn't stop us from using the car). ALL THIS BEFORE 40K MILES AND AT 5 DIFFERENT DEALERSHIPS !!!
And finally the car wouldn't come out of Park and the shifter came off in my wife's hand. It took SIX friggin' overnight trips to the dealer with NO RENTAL CAR offered or supplied!!! The service manager told me "that can't happen. It is impossible for the pin to come out." I am sooo done with GM
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Ok Ok you 2 win. Still doesn't mean I gotta be happy about it.
You are still right to question a dealer. My Mom took her Caddy in that was (two weeks out of warranty) for the passenger side window. The cable clips broke and the window would not roll up or down. They (Three Way Chevrolet) said that is was $500.00 and the whole regulator assembly and window motor had to be replaced as one unit and that it was a dealer item only. She called me and I called bullshit and told her to bring it home. Bought just the regulator (track/cable) WITHOUT the motor as a new OEM product (not from the dealer) and did the job for $60.00.
You are in a little different boat because of the oil, but the principle applies.
Not all dealers are like this, just some. (did I mention Three Way Chevrolet in Bakersfield, CA?)
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service work it charged by what the books says it will take to repair=so if it take the mechanic 30 minutes to do a 1 hr job you get charged that=my son works at lexus as a certified mechanic and that is how they make there money=
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so instead of charging what it takes them they charge "book charge". hmm seems to me if any other business did that we would all call foul.. as in cheating, ripn off the customer. and they wonder why no one wants to deal with dealerships. just my .02
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that is standard in all auto repair and body repairs, if book time is 1hr to do a job and the tech can do it in 30 min, he does get paid the 1 hr, but the average tech is going to have more than 10k in tools in his tool box to allow him to do the job quickly and efficiently, most shops can operate at better than 150% efficiency, that is how they make money, you cry foul and say its not fair, but it can also go the other way, if the book says it is 1hr to do a job and it takes the tech 2hrs to do the job, should he be allowed to charge you 2hrs, how bad would you bitch or call foul on that ??? if you contract someone to build a wall for you, agree to a price and they tell you it will be done i one week and you agree, they do the job but finish it in 5 days, should you get a refund for the time?? that is why most shops will not quote hours, they quote $$$, you are agreeing to a $$$ not how long it takes to do a job. ;D hope this helps a little
and all labor involved businesses (companies that sell labor) make money off labor, if they didn't they would not be in business, the book is what keeps it on a more level playing field, it is a standardization, keeps shop A from telling you a job is this going to cost you this much time and then shop B from saying it is only this much, the price difference will be in the shops hourly charge.
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dealership techs are trained and know the car/truck they are working on, they can tell when something is not right, most jiffy lube employees are 6-8 per hour kids doing the work. it is a matter of who do you want to trust to 40k truck to?? someone trained to work on it, or someone making a little over minimum wage to work on it?
Not so true if you are any of the GM dealers in my area. On my 97 Gran Prix the tranny was worked on 3x ("We are waiting for Detroit to tell us how to fix it") Replaced the entire steering rack (after claiming it was just dry bushings - more WD40 will do it LOL) Replaced entire main wiring harness because they couldn't make engine light go out. Replace the window motor "just because" for an intermittent problem - didn't solve (after that they refused to work on it because it was an inconvenience and didn't stop us from using the car). ALL THIS BEFORE 40K MILES AND AT 5 DIFFERENT DEALERSHIPS !!!
And finally the car wouldn't come out of Park and the shifter came off in my wife's hand. It took SIX friggin' overnight trips to the dealer with NO RENTAL CAR offered or supplied!!! The service manager told me "that can't happen. It is impossible for the pin to come out." I am sooo done with GM
and you think pep boys, jiffy lube etc could have fixed it ??? some cars are just lemons, thats why there is a lemon law.so instead of charging what it takes them they charge "book charge". hmm seems to me if any other business did that we would all call foul.. as in cheating, ripn off the customer. and they wonder why no one wants to deal with dealerships. just my .02
i work 100% commission, the labor books are industry standard and are gauged with out the use of power tools.
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=t the average tech is going to have more than 10k in tools in his tool box to allow him to do the job quickly and efficiently,.
shit i wish :banghead: :banghead: try 40k
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Ralph I took the GP to the dealer because the tranny acted up at 5,12, 13, and 18 thousand miles --new car warranty. So was everything else I never mentioned. At 32K went to arbitration with the state and GM was forced to give me a bumper to bumper warranty to 100K miles. It was the attitude, mistakes, and utter failures of some techs and every service manager I dealt with at FIVE diff. dealerships in an effort to get satisfaction. I loved that car when it worked. 240 HP (bumped to 280 w/ pulley change ;D) Rront wheel drive V6 four door arrest -me - red bundle of fun. But the dealers drove us away with incrediblely bad customer service.
And now 6 GM dealers in the I.E. have closed up since March. F em
Sorry for the thread jack and rant. :banghead:
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And dont forget, if it comes back and its your fault, you get to do all over on your time. There are also plenty of days when there is nothing coming in except a couple of oil changes, big money there.
I've taken my powerstroke into the dealer when a light kicks on, and have been pleasantly surprised that many of the services are very competitive. I think the tranny service is only 130.00 and as I recall the rear end was more. I feel confident that the service advisor isnt ripping me off. When he gives me his reccommandations, I go down the list and pick out the things I dont want to do and have them go at it. But I gotta admit I try to do as much as I can myself, oil, fuel filters, brakes, belts, oil seal just blew and a water pump recently.
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Actually as much as I hate to say it, that's a typical price, the oil is a synthetic 70-140 gear oil that costs a bunch of dough, if you were to do it yourself it would cost about $90... you are not getting screwed but it sure feels like it...BTW the oil in there is supossed to be changed at 500 miles and switched to the synthetic stuff...I have a 2005 F250 SD powerstroke and they quoted me $180 for a rear diff service, I used Amsoil and did it myself... ;)
Welcome to newer vehicles, remember the old days, you could change every fluid in the car for $40 and an hour of your time...
GT
You are right here GT....Also,if it is a Limited Slip Diff,there is an additive for the "clutch pack" called a friction modifier,if this is not added at that time you will get a "chatter"from the diff on turn's that is quite annoying.And if you let it go,it will evevtually wear out the clutches in the diff and than your back to a "noisey one legger"! :banghead: :mad: ::)
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Shit, I'm in construction and we use a damn book to estimate our labor costs per fixture. Yeah, it's high but it's the only way we make any money.
Just remember "Cheap ain't good, and good ain't cheap"
End
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shit i wish :banghead: :banghead: try 40k
i know i was way off with my figure, but i used that as just a number to thow out there, hell if most of us add up what we have in tools in the garage it would be way up there. most non mechanical people have no idea of what "real/good" tools cost, hell i have 2 fully stocked snap on boxs in my garage that i use. about 50% of the tools are snap on, then mac, then matco, then you get into the craftsman (which is snap ons cheap line) and its been over 15yrs since i have been a tech, i could build another boat with what i have invested in tools, but most non-mechanical people will never realize this. I know for a fact that our dealership "shops" around to other dealers and independent repair shops to see what they are charging for repairs and if necessary will adjust our prices to be "competetive" with everyone and i am not at a low line dealer (no disrespect meant to any one or any car line, but i do work for a high line dealer) bottom line is, you should be quoted a price for needed repairs and either you agree or you disagree. period, end of story. if not then you need to find a new place to have your vehicle repaired at.
sorry buzzed posting ;D ;D
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SPEED
QUALITY
PRICE
PICK TWO
you get the idea :)
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I've worked for a few dealerships, writing service and as service manager, over the last 20 years. From Ogden Lincoln Mercury in Westmont/Oak Brook Illinois to Precision Toyota and Holmes Tuttle Ford in Tucson back to Ogden Lincoln Mercury/Kia in North Aurora Illinois. Lots of different leadership, between these dealerships. Precision Toyota, was by FAR the best dealership, to work and buy from. Our standards of conducting business were very high at Toyota, then we come to Lincoln Mercury/kia of North Aurora Illinois. There were times we'd have a vehicle on the trans flush machines (5 times in fact) that the machine provider would come in an unhook and take the machine and what was left of my chemicals for the machine, for lack of payment. I do know that the $105 per hour labor rate does pay for sending my techs to school every 6 mos or so and there union wage, as well as lights and electric. At Toyota, we had 22 techs that were sent to school all the time. Ogden Lincoln Mercury's way of "saftying" a used vehicle was unbelievable. Never wanted to put a dime in them, but sold them for top dollar. I felt dirty working for them. There are good and bad dealerships, and I'm happy to have forgotten most of the bullsh*t.
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Having worked for several dealerships and running a brake specialist shop. I can tell you that $115 for labor is about the average depending on where you're at. Remember that the mechanic, that parts guy, the service writer, the parts manager, and the service manager (& assistant if they have one) all make a commission off of that $200+ bill. Most techs get paid an hourly rate of "book time" if they do it faster they make more money. If they do it slower, they lose money. Not to mention they own their soul to the SnapOn or Mac tools guy. The parts department marks up parts by up to 300%. But some things are reasonably priced if they have a lot of competition in the area. That said, yes you can do it yourself with redline, amsoil, or royal purple and saved at least half. But what is your time worth. Jacking it up, crawling back out to the tool box at least twice, getting diff oil all over your hands (and that smell if horrible and takes forever to fade lol), cleaning the surfaces before you put sealer on em, and cleaning everything including the drops of oil on the driveway. If the dealer does it and it leaks again, they fix it for free. If you do it no such luck. I personally do most of my own stuff, but I don't change fluids on my truck or car. It's too easy and cheap to have someone else do it. Just my $.02
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Most of you don't know that I/we are deeply "invested" in the automobile business statewide (as well as JBP) and I am a ASE certified Master Tech. I personally have 30 plus years in the retail Automotive (and related Auto Bus) as a Line Tech, Warranty Admin and Service advisor & Service Manager (I'm also a licensed CA auto dealer & we still own an licensed CA auto repair business). We work regularly for each of the "Big Three" as well as a multitude of other MFG's and a plethera of Auto warranty administrators, insurers & legal types as a technical consultant and expert witness So that said, I would think it safe to say I have some experience in the field. Yes you'll find higher prices on parts and labor at the "Dealer", yes, generally the staff and techs are better trained. As a rule IMO you'll get good solid knowledgable service at your Dealer svc dept. Not to disparage the many good independant shops out there (there's lots of good ones, and a few bad ones). Yes they will be less money (they don't have the overhead and costs associated with a big business). I won't tell you you can't find bargains and good techs that will take care of you. You will find alot of good independent techs are from dealers but found life more appealing on their own, myself included. You as a consumer have the legal "right" in Cali to an comprehensive written estimate of costs. You have the right to say no thank you. You have the right to an explanation and question any and all costs or charges you may have agreed on (and as " a pre condition") demand to see ALL the old parts used in your repair! You also have the right to a comprehensive and detailed invoice clearly spelliing out what exactly was done. I am very familiar with the procedures, rules and laws and if I can ever help any of our SCJB brothers j ust say the word. Tom