SoCal Jet Boats
Discussion => The No Wake Zone => WarZone => Topic started by: Nordie on January 03, 2010, 03:42:41 PM
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Well here we go...just so everyone knows after doing this gig it turns out it is not the problem...truck is going to the diesel shop tomorrow for a real diagnostic, and i am going to kick some ass at the dealer for a wrong diag....so here we got
This is the beginning, and look at what i was seeing...the phots are all via cell phone so they arent the best
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after removing, and finally getting a good look at the upper valve cover this is what i see when i got the upper valve cover removed....nothing to it once you get all the shit out of the way...what i did with all nuts and bolts was the use of sandwich bags, and a sharpie....any bolt that had a wire loom bracket was also labeled where it needed to go....ended up with no extra bolts thats a plus right?
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after pulling the injector wiring harnesses i could now pull the lower valve cover to access get to the fuel rail, and injectors themselves...here are the injectors removed
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Then everything was placed back together...we did each side one at a time, and took our time to do this, i am really hoping i didnt make it worse, but i dont think i did
here is some other shots for your viewing pleasure
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What a job nordie what we say in the auto biz better you then me rib cage probibly sore laying in there like that for that long good luck with that dealer and finding the real problem :banghead:
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truck is lifted 4 inches :banghead: ....so what we did was put the front of the truck on the lift, and pullet the tires, and then dropped it down till the rotors almost touched the floor it was still a pain in the ass because alot of work was done in the fenderwells, and on top of the hood....we used buckets to stand on, and when some antifreeze hit the floor the bucket would have a tendency to slide out and you would be placed on top of the fender....freaking unreal....there was alot of cussing going on, and i cant tell you how many wrenches i dropped that is where most of the cussing came along
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How did the dealer diagnose bad injector/injectors? Did they do a cutout test or what?
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They check balance rates
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These newer diesels are animals amongst themselves, quite obviously! :banghead:
There's a guy over on PB who wants to put one of those Duramax Diesels in a jet boat........good luck with that....... ;D
Ray
What else could it be? Fuel pump? Clogged return line? This one is perplexing!
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These newer diesels are animals amongst themselves, quite obviously! :banghead:
There's a guy over on PB who wants to put one of those Duramax Diesels in a jet boat........good luck with that....... ;D
Ray
What else could it be? Fuel pump? Clogged return line? This one is perplexing!
Been done with a PSD...Twins no less :screwy:
GT
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Fuel pump? Clogged return line?
That was my thought from the start
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Hope it aint the fuel pump that bitch is expensive....there's two of them, and im not short on fuel...truck is super rich which leads me to believe fuel pressure regulator
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Hope it aint the fuel pump that bitch is expensive....there's two of them, and im not short on fuel...truck is super rich which leads me to believe fuel pressure regulator
Diesels can't really run "rich", they either run or don't run, the air is a constant, the fuel makes the engine accellerate, if it smokes like a gas deal (black) that either means air in the system or bad spray pattern from one or more injectors....(among others)
Does your truck have a Cat on it? Those do get plugged up, easy to verify by pulling it.....
edit;, if the pulse width is modifed (read tuner) you can have too much fuel being delivered which I guess could be thought of as rich, if too high, the heat from the added fuel could melt stuff down really easy, do you have any idea what your exhaust temps are when running hard? Over about 1000*F can start to get expensive.
GT
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basically truck at start-up i get a puff of white smoke, and the motor vibrates and shakes more then it used to...chevy diaged it as injectors or they were ready, but not completely meaning this is why my truck will still run...however at start-up i can be 100 feet from my truck and smell diesel...meaning there is some serious raw diesel coming out of the exhaust never smelled like that before....now the vibration goes completely away after 1800 rpms and runs like it always does...fuel economy effing sucks....here is my philosophy now that the injectors are done....i believe it to be the fuel pressure regulator that is electronically controlled is sending wrong signals at idle and lower rpms, cause truck still runs like a raped ape...my truck hardly makes any black smoke, and i do get white smoke at cold start ups....it is a mystery which will be solved soon enough...also i dont believe it to be rotating assembly or bent rod because....the shake would progressively get worse...also the truck does the same in park or neutral so i know it is the motor....this has me :banghead: for almost a month now, and i miss my truck
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basically truck at start-up i get a puff of white smoke, and the motor vibrates and shakes more then it used to...chevy diaged it as injectors or they were ready, but not completely meaning this is why my truck will still run...however at start-up i can be 100 feet from my truck and smell diesel...meaning there is some serious raw diesel coming out of the exhaust never smelled like that before....now the vibration goes completely away after 1800 rpms and runs like it always does...fuel economy effing sucks....here is my philosophy now that the injectors are done....i believe it to be the fuel pressure regulator that is electronically controlled is sending wrong signals at idle and lower rpms, cause truck still runs like a raped ape...my truck hardly makes any black smoke, and i do get white smoke at cold start ups....it is a mystery which will be solved soon enough...also i dont believe it to be rotating assembly or bent rod because....the shake would progressively get worse...also the truck does the same in park or neutral so i know it is the motor....this has me :banghead: for almost a month now, and i miss my truck
Maybe,
the white smoke as you probably already know means either water being combusted or crankcase oil being burned off...This will sound retarded, but have you checked the fuel for excess water? Sometimes the water sensors don't work, also have you put fuel filters in it?
GT
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Maybe,
the white smoke as you probably already know means either water being combusted or crankcase oil being burned off...This will sound retarded, but have you checked the fuel for excess water? Sometimes the water sensors don't work, also have you put fuel filters in it?
GT
water yes
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oil was checked for water and nothing....the resovoir was about a little low, but the motor was warm....fuel filter replacement showed some water to be in the fuel but we are talking drops here...this is why there is a seperator for diesels it did its job...new fuel filter, and new tank of fuel = same problem....i know the problem is with fuel....oil level was high with 3k on the oil...i run 5k per oil change....the white smoke at initial start-up does point to a fuel issue....least online research has come to tell me...talked to a diesel shop today and have an appointment tomorrow...i wont find out till wednesday...may the suspense kill me....definately no water in oil...however fresh oil has a wonderful aroma of diesel fuel...here are my thoughts the motor is shaking at low rpm's because it is over fueling the motor when the motor gets up in rpm's it is running where it should be and it runs fine....the motor still has gobbs of power as well...so i know im not down any cylinders....in frustration i power braked it and made a nice 100 + foot long plus patch....wish the damn thing would throw a lite....diesel specialist here i come...shop....what's funny is i used diesel forums to get answers, and have gotten more feedback from a boat site....go figure...
love you guys!
really i would like to thank everyone for the phone calls, and pms, and favors you guys are a great bunch....
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Hey Josh I think I got it figured out.....
Wait...........
The DIZZY is at the wrong end :D :D :D :D
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What dizzy? They don't even have intake valves?
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What dizzy? They don't even have intake valves?
Don't you mean throttle butterflies?... ;D
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throttle cable whats that? ;D
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the white smoke is normally oil burning like the heads are dripping oil into the cylinders and puffing white smoke at start up, it goes away because there isnt enough time to let the oild pool back in to the cylinders. The more black smoke when your on the throttle the better, that means the motor is making serious power. I would check all the glow plugs in the motor, because if you have raw fuel its not always to much fuel. a diesel has so much compression in the motor that you can run on a dead hole or two and that is where the vibration is coming from. once you get the rpms up im the motor the fuel starts to light itself with out the use of the glow plug. your MPG will go right in the shit can if you are only running on 8 holes 75% of the time and the other 25% of the motor is just dead weight. i know thats a little comfussing but, my diesel gets about 25 MPG its a 7.3 with a chip and some turbo work and still makes about 450 to 500 hp. Nordie you have my number call if you want me to go into some detail
The Beav
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Thanks for the advise beav....when injectors were put in 8 new glow plugs were also put in....these damn duramax's aren't normal they seem to be different don't know what it is....when I drop it off at the shop I'm going to have them run a compression test....the glow plugs really are just for start-up so with the motor warmed up vibration should go away....not with my motor....I really think fuel economy....on the 34" tires running 70 I get 22mpg....now I probably get 9! Will get my answer soon enough....I think it is so simple a cave-man could do it....just not nordie
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well they have figured out the problem with my truck....took them an hour :thumbup:
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they said due to the motor being off balance it was messing up the fuel economy...he also said i did a bang-up job on the injector install!
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Did they get the pin out of the crank for you?
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they are going to make a stab at it first thing in the morning....he's sure that he will get it out, but not tooo sure if there will be any crank damage....cool thing about diesels....crank's are generally tool steel....least i was told that
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Glad to hear they found it! Seems weird though.
My understanding was the same thing on most diesel cranks!
Ray
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yeah if the crank is messed....then i am going after centennial gmc, because they did my water pump about 30K ago....and im guessing they forgot to torque the bolt....because they said that it was only hand tight
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Glad it turned out to be something simple. Now you can get it fixed right and hook up the boat. See you on Saturday ;) ;)
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i wish guys i really do
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nordie was this thrwing crank signal off ???
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I bet you really wish you got a second opinion like everybody suggested! :banghead:
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thought this is why the dealer came into play....diagnostic thought it was all good...i wouldnt just buy injectors w?out knowing the problem....they were on the way out anyway
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seen bad crank signal or ckp signals and sensors replaced on cars because of the same thing i would go back and get my diag money back ???
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Glad you got it figured out! :thumbup:
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josh, before they fuck up the crank trying to get it out. kia's brake the crank bolt in the crank all the time, we have a guy come and lazer the bolt out and he does not even fork the threads up doing it. any way he charges 275 to remove it with the motor still in the car. just check into it before they fork up the crank.
jeez i hope that makes sense :-\
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this is the guy we use. im sure he wont go to vegas but he may know of some body around you
http://www.boltguy.com/ (http://www.boltguy.com/)
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not even threaded...just 1/4" dowel pin....once they get the harmonic balancer off they will determine what to do! and he will call before making a call....thanks for the heads up ralph...
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not even threaded...just 1/4" dowel pin....once they get the harmonic balancer off they will determine what to do! and he will call before making a call....thanks for the heads up ralph...
i dont see why they couldnt drill it out then.
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Can't help but wonder why they pin the thing on there instead of a normal keyway to index it..... :screwy:
Ray
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got my truck back from the shop, and the saga continues....i missed something somewhere when doing the injectors i may have already fixed it, but i dont know yet, but how would you feel seeing this under your truck the morning after you got it out of the shop?
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in frustration and angry you do this, and then feel like a dumbass
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so today i tore back into the motor like i was going to replace the injectors again, and 11 hours later the pig fired back up again! and honestly i think i got it...a little driving and a smog test, and i will find out for sure...lets all hope for me...that this well over a month fiasco is over! had a long discussion with the duramax tech over at the diesel shop i used for my harmonic balancer deal, and he told me that it was a return line deal....one of the seals wasnt sealed or something rather....so i called the dealer, and bought the factory original seals, and not aftermarket...of course 10 seals was 40 bucks, and basically just a washer, but whatever.....anyway got the truck back together, and now it starts, and drives like it used to....so lets hope tomorrows test drive works out for the best it wont take long to find out....but todays test drive really shows some good promise....god i really hope this is all over with
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:thumbup: that's all i got to say about that!
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Is nordie whole again :thumbup:
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nordie is unwhole again....i guess i didnt get it, but it isnt leaking like it was :banghead: what on earth have i dont to deserve this? what the hell do i do? you guys wouldnt believe what is going through my head right now
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No Nordie dont lite it it can be fixed :o
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what the hell do i do?
Take the fucking thing to a reputable shop and quit whining about it. :sly:
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nordie is unwhole again....i guess i didnt get it, but it isnt leaking like it was :banghead: what on earth have i dont to deserve this? what the hell do i do? you guys wouldnt believe what is going through my head right now
time to sack up and deal with life bro. either stfu and fix it, or take it to someone who can fix it.
shit could be A LOT worse. having car/truck problems isnt the end of the world.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ thats all i got to say about that
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ thats all i got to say about that
how much have you spent so far? (parts, rental car, service at other shop, etc)
how much did the original dealer quote you?
whats the lesson we learned today, class?
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dealer miss diagnosed it i ran with what they said....turns out to not be the problem....so the dealer quoted me for 4-5 thousand to do the job, that would have not cured the problem....as of right now i am with rental car 3,000 into the truck! i have a funny feeling of what it is, but only saturday will tell i am going to dig into it again, and see what it is that i have missed! also going at it with a different strategy the problem is going away slowly, but hey even if i do this for less then 4k i consider myself still good! and will be good for another 100k....so as far as a lesson learned i dont think so! only cost 60 bucks to get the seals again, and the gasket sealer....and another 50 on the 4th oil change in 2 months....so no lesson learned as of yet mr brad....im at a catch 22 cause i would be looking at probably 2 grand to have the shop do it
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If you haven't learned a lesson from your woes over the past month, well then..................
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no lesson to be learned thus far....just dont trust the dealer is about what it boiled down to for me, if i would have just taken it to these guys first they would have caught the balancer....which the dealer couldnt catch! dealer had my truck 3 days, diesel specialists had the truck one hour when they found the prob....however if they both would have done the injectors, both would be around the same price! im still a grand shy of it....and i can thank the dealer for that....because for one i wouldnt just keep throwing parts at it without knowing the problem thats always spendy, but as of now it is what it is, and if everyone is sick of hearing it i'll stfu
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But at the dealer you wouldnt pay the injecter bill because it didnt fix the problem and thy probibly would have found the crank issue and thats all you are to pay for due to the fact thats what you brought it in for any other leaks or anything thay are responsible for just my 02
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If you had gone to the dealer (or anywhere else) and they did the injectors, it would not have solved the problem, and it probably wouldn't be leaking oil. But why would you have paid for a repair that didn't fix the problem? I am betting that with a little bitching GM would have helped out with a rental too.
Or you could have gone to some diesel specialist that might have either done the same thing, or fixed it right the first time. Either way you wouldn't be out money, time, sweat, tears, beer, etc. and still not have it right. I think there is a lesson there somewhere.
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He still would be out the beers i think just not the time and as much money the sweat and tears like he lost a child ;D
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ok here's my lesson! instead of using the fuckhead dealer i should have taken it to the diesel shop! then i would have only been out 400 bucks instead i listened to the dealer and i am out 3 grand it will be fixed saturday come hell of high water unless i need to order a part!
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But at the dealer you wouldnt pay the injecter bill because it didnt fix the problem and thy probibly would have found the crank issue and thats all you are to pay for due to the fact thats what you brought it in for any other leaks or anything thay are responsible for just my 02
BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER
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You Chevy guys might wanna avoid the car wash dealio too . . . http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28255 (http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28255)
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sorta funny never had a problem except with my billet antenna i had to take that thing off
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That is funny!
But honestly Lil Bro, once that thing is fixed TRADE IT IN ON A FERD or a DODGE or even a Nip Diesel!!!!!!
I know you love diesels now, and obviously, that Duramax isn't all it's cracked up to be if the freaking dealer can't figure it out. 8)
Ray
Is it me, or did anyone else notice all this happened right after Nordie put the new wheels and tires on? :sly:
I'm just sayin'............
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haha happened about a week after the new bling! anyway this is what has gone down the past couple of days...thursday i went down, and pre ordered my return lines new lines! more seals, and the bolts for the return lines im no effing around this time! so today i started on the truck around 9am, and got down to the valve covers....then i had to run a couple of errands....i ran out of chewing tobaccy for one, and needed to put a check in the bank, and tried to track down a inch pount torque wrench, but no such luck....i got a 50 dollar gift card for sears might go get a craftsman one tomorrow, but anyway after running the errands i suddenly realized i wasnt feeling so well, and went and laid in bed for a couple of hours...just not feeling well today, but i managed to get off of my ass, and get back after it....i got the one side torn down, and started putting it back together....the valve covers are 2 piece....so tomorrows plan is to put everything back on that side of the motor except the upper valve cover, and then tear down the other side, and put everything back together except the upper valve cover, and with some help i am going to check for leaks while the motor is revved up this is my new game plan...if i could find the proper tool there is a way to check for leaks with a vacuum dealio, but i dont have that feature! but i think this is going to be my best bet....what do you guys think...besides take it to the shop
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Dude you know everyone is gonna tell ya to take it to the shop, besides you arent supposed to be hungover when you are planning on working on your shit :sly: OR is it that time of month ??? ;D ;D >:D
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nope i was asleep by 7:30 last night....b-rad wanted to go out last night, but i told him no cause i had to get my truck done
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If it turns out to be the return lines, you KNOW Skip and I are gonna laugh hysterically, right?
Ray
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i figured something out today while i was redoing the one side....3rd time is a charm right? honestly i think you guys are missing exactly what i am trying to explain....the return lines are a sloid piece of tubing that directly bolt onto the injectors under the valve covers....if it is still leaking i found a test procedure through all data just dont know how to get the proper ones
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Have you considered taking it to a diesel specialist? ;D
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3rd time is a charm if no go this time....truck goes to the shop, but im confident
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Good luck Josh, I hope you nail it :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Good luck Josh, I hope you nail it :thumbup: :thumbup:
Me too! :thumbup: But this Duramax sounds like something noone should be DIY'ing to me after all this!
Not to say Nordie wasn't screwed by the initial diag at the dealer, mind you! >:D
Ray
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they are all internal combustion engines....once you get all of the shit off of em
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i want everyone to cross their fingers for me!
:thumbup: (https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi483.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr196%2F1980Nordic%2Fth_video-2010-01-24-18-19-24.jpg&hash=96d8e117d5275b7faca9792ec0a0204c34f45283) (http://s483.photobucket.com/albums/rr196/1980Nordic/?action=view¤t=video-2010-01-24-18-19-24.flv)
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Good luck Nordie!
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oh yeah btw i found out why it was leaking this last time, but all i got to say is human error! something i made sure of that wont happen again....! i had to tear everything down cause of my own dumbass fault! im getting good at this though
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Anybody got a deramax I hear there is a good tech in vagas works cheap hehe ;D good luck Nordie
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I like how when you rev the engine up you speedo also moves up! ;D
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I like how when you rev the engine up you speedo also moves up! ;D
you can thank elctronics for that! my 2000 silverado did that too
Anybody got a deramax I hear there is a good tech in vagas works cheap hehe ;D good luck Nordie
unfortunately im getting to know these things very well...i can do the injector replacement under the time limit set by the system by whatever deal you guys follow to make money haha! and i now got all the specialty tools to do the job! today's big purchase! electric impact! i was tired of ratcheting! oh yeah one more big purchase Inch Pount torque wrench
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alright guys! got the truck from a test drive today, and everything seems good! now the bad news! when i was driving i was hearing some good clunks! well a while ago i had to replace a ball joint on the drivers side....well when i jacked up my truck i think i popped the passenger one....im glad it didnt go when i was driving and just caught it when i got home! honestly if that is the least of my worries! a ball joint is nothing
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alright guys! got the truck from a test drive today, and everything seems good! now the bad news! when i was driving i was hearing some good clunks! well a while ago i had to replace a ball joint on the drivers side....well when i jacked up my truck i think i popped the passenger one....im glad it didnt go when i was driving and just caught it when i got home! honestly if that is the least of my worries! a ball joint is nothing
Glad you may be done with the injectors! :thumbup:
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Yea now fix your ball----s------joint good job deratech Nordie ;D
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the ball joint was to be expected....i broke the drivers side when i was out of town at the desert, and as soon as i got home i ordered the passenger side uppers, and lowers....also the drivers side lower....they were all fatigued...so anyway it wasnt something out of the norm....no biggie....when i ordered the news ones i made sure to get all MOOG products....not sure if they are all that, but they did cost a pretty penny, about 70 a piece
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Moog good parts deratech Nordie they have been around a long time bud :thumbup:
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no biggie to pop the upper control arm off...especially when you need an alignment anyway! like i said if that was the biggest problem i am happy with that....
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no biggie to pop the upper control arm off...especially when you need an alignment anyway! like i said if that was the biggest problem i am happy with that....
I'd go ahead and change out the other 2 ball joints as well, soon, and get a good alignment! Don't wanna ruin your girls new shoes!
ray
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give her a pair of daves boots and she can push ;D