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TrickyDickie85

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rail kit/motor plates
« on: March 02, 2021, 08:27:17 PM »
Is anyone making motor plates for rail kits? I need a Ford rear plate and a Chevy front plate without mechanical pump cut out.  :beer: :beer:
  • Boat #1: 1976 Hondo T-Deck "Miss Mistress"
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dat1dsm

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2021, 10:12:33 AM »
How wide on th front plate for Chevy? I have 2 sets that were too small for my tunnel.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2021, 02:53:44 PM »
The overall width is defined by the width of your stringers inside-to-inside.  I went through my library of custom fit motor plates and arrived at the following statistics:
25.345" Average Width
23.307" Minimum Width
27.199" Maximum Width

This really means nothing to you and your boat.  The only thing that matters is the width of YOUR stringers.  Keep in mind that stringers are usually neither square nor parallel.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

TrollerDave

  • Karma: +32/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2021, 08:16:10 PM »
The overall width is defined by the width of your stringers inside-to-inside.  I went through my library of custom fit motor plates and arrived at the following statistics:
25.345" Average Width
23.307" Minimum Width
27.199" Maximum Width

This really means nothing to you and your boat.  The only thing that matters is the width of YOUR stringers.  Keep in mind that stringers are usually neither square nor parallel.
I’m going to thread jack, but still on the same subject.
How do you go about setting up a rail kit and motor plates to make sure you get the right angle to the jet and making sure the oil pan fits?
I’m assuming you set up the rail kit first and from there you fab the plates. Figure out the depth and the mark the holes for the feet. Once the feet are on the plate, set it on the rails and mark the holes for placement?
Something like that? Am I missing something?
I’m sure there is a bit more to it. I just wanted to try and keep my understanding short and simple to read.


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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2021, 03:57:13 AM »
I’m going to thread jack, but still on the same subject.
How do you go about setting up a rail kit and motor plates to make sure you get the right angle to the jet and making sure the oil pan fits?
I’m assuming you set up the rail kit first and from there you fab the plates. Figure out the depth and the mark the holes for the feet. Once the feet are on the plate, set it on the rails and mark the holes for placement?
Something like that? Am I missing something?
I’m sure there is a bit more to it. I just wanted to try and keep my understanding short and simple to read.


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An executive summary:

The pump needs to be installed first.  The intake should be centered, leveled side-to-side relative to the strakes or tunnels, and installed at the appropriate angle.  The pump ultimately defines the location of the engine (unless you are setting up a dedicated race boat).

I have a tube welded to a yoke, with the U-joint portion machined off, is fitted to the pump shaft.  A bushing in the number 5 main journal bore centers the pipe relative to the crankshaft centerline.  The pipe is made parallel to the pump shaft and centerline of the hull.  Add up the lengths of the driveshaft, PTO, flexplate or flywheel, and crankshaft flange along with 3/16" of clearance.  This is the dimension from the pump thrust bearing to the bellhousing surface of the block.  Level the engine side-to-side relative to the gunwales.

I locate the rails parallel to the top of the stringers, typically 5/8" down, more or less if necessary.  I locate the rails fore/aft by measuring from the bellhousing surface to the end of the rails, to center both rails on the motor plates and pillow blocks.

Fit the plates to the stringers and rails then transfer punch the bolt pattern from the engine block.  Once I can bolt the plates to the block, I remove all of my support structure and get the engine block sitting in the boat on its own weight.  The last thing I do is transfer punch the rails and plates to the pillow blocks.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2021, 04:55:21 AM »


...making sure the oil pan fits?

The biggest problem that I see is actually an issue with the oil pan manufacturers.

There are some manufacturers who make some very nice oil pans, however they have zero understanding of jet boats.  This is especially the case with the high-end market.  Someone who is serious enough to spend $1000 on a wet sump oil pan is probably going to run that in a tunnel boat.

Oil pan manufacturers incorporate large kickouts, for windage control, along the right side (even bank on a Chevy).  It is common for the manufacturer to not grasp just how narrow these tunnels actually are.  This problem is compounded by the placement of huge unusable drain bungs on the side of the kickout.  It wouldn't be so bad if the bungs were on the side opposite of the kickout.  Even in a V-bottom, these bungs often hit.  There have been instances where we had to cut off these bungs off and weld in a patch.

In my opinion, the drain fitting should be on the lowest point of the rear surface of the pan.  It is absolutely stupid to try to 90 off the side of the pan, when you can come straight off the back (with a much larger hose).

Jet boat oil pans should only be 8.00" deep.  Not 8.25", not 8.375".  This is especially true if running the stock driveshaft without a Jet-a-way.  The pan will actually sit on top of the jet intake and it is very common for interference with the intake bolts.  The oil pan should not be in contact with anything!  If the pan is in contact with the bolts, it will wear a hole through the pan, causing an Exxon Valdez oil spill in the bilge of your boat, and possibly the loss of your engine.  Contact between the pan and the fiberglass can actually wear a hole through the bottom of the boat.

This problem isn't just limited to wet sump oil system manufacturers.  Dry sump system manufacturers are equally as bad, except the issue is more with the pump and less with the pan.

Some people just insist on running XYZ oil pan, then it is up to the rigger to "just make it work."  Cutting and welding the oil pan and pickup isn't an option.  A workable solution is to raise the engine straight up, however you then face driveshaft angularity and binding issues.

I think the oil pan manufacturers just need to get over themselves and design a pan suitable for the application.  So what, if the oil pan design is optimized while the performance of everything else is compromised?  Or worse yet, you have to cut and weld on your new pan AND compromise everything else.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

TrollerDave

  • Karma: +32/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2021, 10:07:27 PM »
An executive summary:

The pump needs to be installed first.  The intake should be centered, leveled side-to-side relative to the strakes or tunnels, and installed at the appropriate angle.  The pump ultimately defines the location of the engine (unless you are setting up a dedicated race boat).

I have a tube welded to a yoke, with the U-joint portion machined off, is fitted to the pump shaft.  A bushing in the number 5 main journal bore centers the pipe relative to the crankshaft centerline.  The pipe is made parallel to the pump shaft and centerline of the hull.  Add up the lengths of the driveshaft, PTO, flexplate or flywheel, and crankshaft flange along with 3/16" of clearance.  This is the dimension from the pump thrust bearing to the bellhousing surface of the block.  Level the engine side-to-side relative to the gunwales.

I locate the rails parallel to the top of the stringers, typically 5/8" down, more or less if necessary.  I locate the rails fore/aft by measuring from the bellhousing surface to the end of the rails, to center both rails on the motor plates and pillow blocks.

Fit the plates to the stringers and rails then transfer punch the bolt pattern from the engine block.  Once I can bolt the plates to the block, I remove all of my support structure and get the engine block sitting in the boat on its own weight.  The last thing I do is transfer punch the rails and plates to the pillow blocks.
You are a wealth of knowledge and thank you for sharing it. I knew it wasn’t as simple as I made it sound. I was just trying to understand the steps and in what order they would go. I would like to put in a rail system. Just not ready to open that can of worms.


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robegreen8

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rail kit/motor plates
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2023, 10:04:18 PM »
Wow

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