SoCal Jet Boats

Discussion => Boat Racing => Topic started by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 02:42:38 PM

Title: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 02:42:38 PM
Lets make this a serious racing class and get rid of the GPS speed limit and replace it with a displacement limit.  Say 475 cid NA.  Everything else the same as Comp Jet...  Lets kick this idea around.  I think it would generate more interest in the new class, especially from those that want to race more than once on Terry's nickle... 

Speeds would be lower and engines would last longer.  Your comments please.
Shirl Dickey
CJ60
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 16, 2013, 04:30:58 PM
Lets make this a serious racing class and get rid of the GPS speed limit and replace it with a displacement limit.  Say 475 cid NA.  Everything else the same as Comp Jet...  Lets kick this idea around.  I think it would generate more interest in the new class, especially from those that want to race more than once on Terry's nickle... 

Speeds would be lower and engines would last longer.  Your comments please.
Shirl Dickey
CJ60
ever seen an 800hp 466 or 472? well i have and i know if you do this, that is were this class will go.... hell do you pump the c/j motors when they win? When do you propose to pump the river racer motors to make sure they are class legal... or would we still have to protest to make sure the playing field is legal? how about pumping all winning motors... just food for thought ;)
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on March 16, 2013, 04:55:30 PM
The NJ class was a BUDGET class allowing anyone to run and be competitive. That is what the RR class should be as well. I say stick to the GPS rule and allow any motor (blown, turbo, NOS, etc). It keeps the playing field fair. Just as ralph said, theres enough bitching in CJ about whos legal and who isnt. THAT to me is what is killing CJ - people giving the bad name of cheaters running in the class instead - those who are bitching/crying- should be doing the right thing and properly protesting.

If you change this RR class, it eliminates people like myself and ralph from running the class.....but allows you to dominate the class with your aluminum block rule you want to propose in CJ - right? I vote no on this proposal.

If someone has a problem with the speed limits, then they gotta open their wallet and build a CJ boat/motor.

My vote is to keep it the same.

Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 05:32:12 PM
  Brad, if you think my aluminum small block will dominate the field against the engines Ralph mentioned you would be wrong.  I'm making 700hp on a good day...   BTW, an aluminium LS engine is a lot less expensive to build than those engines as well.   I'm running hydraulic lifters and stock valve train...

  I would have no problem if the class was limited to cast iron blocks.  As far as I am concerned, GPS racing is not racing, it's just arriving at the finish line on schedule...

  I have seen some serious HP made from the engines like Ralph mentioned and they all made it at very high RPM, like 8500 rpm.  Not easy to get to that RPM level with a pump...   How about some positive ideas rather than the classic 'no can do' approach.
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 16, 2013, 06:04:52 PM
on a brighter note HOW BOUT JACK/BANDY'S NEW KILO RECORD awsome :thumbup:

i understand that the class needs some thing :-\ what it is i dont know, maybe a bump up in speed limit say 85? hell its bracket racing in a circle...  Shirl, have you tried to run in the class? i have and its harder than one would think to (as you say) "arrive on time"....

im all ears as i plan to come racing (on my nickle) matter of fact all my parts are here accept for the main bearing witch will be shipped end of this month however, the cubic inch rule will eliminate me and i will not build another motor to suit the cubic inch rule...... so now you are not gaining ground you are losing it..
Ralph
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 06:12:32 PM
I would also suggest that if you want to go GPS racing that the NJ class be maintained for that  purpose and the RRJ class be opened up to run the smaller, less expensive, and more reliable engines.

As to the CJ Class, you can pump my engine anytime you want, no money or protest needed.  Just bring the P&G machine.  I also would like to see all first place boats pumped, its not that hard to remove the spark plugs.

And as to getting out your wallet to run CJ, that just got a whole lot more expensive today.  Whose going to try and compete with Jack and Tom.  Congratulations to them for setting the kilo record up by 11 mph, I hope they haven't killed the class in the process.
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 16, 2013, 06:32:59 PM
ok so you want to make another class and you cant fill the two you have now? i say go for it, gather the boats and get Ross to put it in the program.. Ross will do just about anything as long as its safe and the boats are there to promote the class....
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 06:34:29 PM
Here's another thought.  How about we grandfather your current engine into the RRJ class so long as it is not more than 515 cid (CJ legal).  If and when that engine is removed or blown you have to build one to the RRJ CID limit.  That way anyone wanting to run the class could do so until the engine needed to be replaced.  There has to be a way to bridge the gap...

I would limit grandfathering to CJ boats that have not raced in the 2013 racing season.
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: terrytav on March 16, 2013, 06:38:10 PM
shirl       River Racer /Nostalgia was created so that someone who is interested in racing has a entry level class to enter where they can get the feel of racing competition, are able to enhance thier driving skills and see if this is something they want to do. The costs are minimal as they can run anything with the expense of only safety equipment. There are a lot of Jet boaters who race up and down the rivers who now have a chance to do it for real against competition. The speed limit keeps everyone on an even keel and allows for them to prove that driving skills are importent. My thoughts behind my offer  is to see other people have the same chance as i have to enjoy the competition and friendship that racing brings
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 06:46:43 PM
Terry,
  I'm not suggesting that we change anything with the upcoming Parker RRJ/NJ race.  We need to see how much interest there is in that.  I am looking farther down the road.  We have a big problem keeping engines alive in the CJ class.  I don't see any way to change the CJ class to help with that problem.   A lower displacement jet class would offer a solution to those that cannot afford to keep paying for blown engines in the CJ class.  And that includes me.
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 16, 2013, 06:50:55 PM
  A lower displacement jet class would offer a solution to those that cannot afford to keep paying for blown engines in the CJ class.  And that includes me.
Shirl
with all due respect shirl, we have that class you just dont like it so now you want to make another class....

once again, have you ran the n/j rrj class?
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: quick olds on March 16, 2013, 06:52:49 PM
Why not a straight up run what you brung class no ci limits no weight limits just safety rules
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 16, 2013, 07:02:09 PM
Ralph,
  I like the class, I just don't like the GPS.  And no, I have not run in an NJ race.  We have talked and talked about running the NJ class and there is never any interest.  Now that Terry and stepped up with his support I expect to see some boats running RRJ/NJ.  The questions is, how many will come back after the support is gone?  If they don't come back and the class dies, I want to talk about replacing it with something like I have suggested here.  Can we at least wait and see if the GPS RRJ class takes hold?  I agree that we don't need two new jet classes.
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 16, 2013, 07:04:58 PM
Why not a straight up run what you brung class no ci limits no weight limits just safety rules
i dont have any real answer for you sorry,

Shirl, lets not put the class to bed with out you even trying it, its harder than you think..
i think the best thing is to go to parker and ask the new guys in the rrj class if they are coming back, and if not what would it take to bring them back....
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GlassCutter on March 16, 2013, 07:15:55 PM
JD this is supposed to be an entry level class.  It is also a continuing problem to fill all of these jet classes on a regular basis.  A run what you brung class would likely be dominated by whoever has the deepest wallet.  It would seem like kind of a hollow victory to beat 4 or 5 other guys just because you were able to spend more money, but I'm sure that is what would happen.
I think the GPS limit makes sense.  The stress on these engines is insane, and this is the only way I can see to keep the costs reasonable.  I'm not sure it wouldn't be a good idea to have an RPM limit added maybe a bump in displacement, to keep things even more reliable.  But then I think that may go against the way in which a jetboat makes MPH.  I do know that it is ridiculously expensive to run these boats for a weekend race all things considered.  Huge props (or should I say jets) to you guys who do it.  It is fun to watch, that is for sure.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 16, 2013, 07:26:23 PM
GlassCutter, im thinking restrictor plate or a spec carb but, i think that is done in p/s or s/s and then you get into the deep wallet again....
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: quick olds on March 16, 2013, 07:27:15 PM
Ya i was sayin for there motor argument they should do a run what you brung i think im gonna run my olds in the rrj class when im more comfy in it and if it blows ill build my bbc and do the swap
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GlassCutter on March 16, 2013, 07:46:40 PM
If you expect to run an Olds more than one time AND be competitive, you will spend waaaay more money than putting together anything else.  Everything about the Olds design from the size of the mains on up will run against you.   Olds motors were built to move big heavy cars at low RPM.  Racing boats is a whole 'nother world.   But hey, they told the Wright Bros. that man shouldn't fly but that didn't stop 'em from trying.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: quick olds on March 16, 2013, 08:46:55 PM
Ya ive done all the oiling mods and its around 600+ hp i wont run it in a circle race till i start building the chev so if/ when it goes i have a motor
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: mobboss on March 16, 2013, 10:13:17 PM
you should do it in an olds!   cause i there nothing like the look you get from people you beat, when you tell them (i have a 455 olds)   yah you lost to an olds!    >:D
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: quick olds on March 16, 2013, 10:30:50 PM
Ya the chevy guys hate it lol i love hevy but i didnt know better when i bought my boat so i roll with it lol
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on March 17, 2013, 07:01:01 AM
you should do it in an olds!   cause i there nothing like the look you get from people you beat, when you tell them (i have a 455 olds)   yah you lost to an olds!    >:D
winning with the olds would be cool, and if you do it shows the motor builder knows his shit :thumbup:
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GT Jets on March 17, 2013, 08:59:33 AM
I think the GPS has three positives with fewer negatives.
The way I see it, it keeps a fairly even playing field making sure the"rookies"don't have to run with 90mph boats.

It keeps the drivers safer with a speed cap, this imho is a huge positive.

It allows racers to get a taste for racing in its purest form. Similar to the jalopy classes on dirt ovals.

I would think if the GPS rule were eliminated and speeds not capped, there would be very few takers for fears that they would in no way be competitive.

I would be much more open to running a GPS class than an entry level spec motor class just because of all the bitching and moaning in those classes.

The only other way it could be done is with crate motors, and in all honesty, that will take away from the vibe of intent of the class.

The way it is right now, you could literally rip the seats out of your family boat and go have a blast.

Anybody remember Ralph at Long Beach?8) that was awesome.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on March 17, 2013, 10:28:01 AM
  Brad, if you think my aluminum small block will dominate the field against the engines Ralph mentioned you would be wrong.  I'm making 700hp on a good day...   BTW, an aluminium LS engine is a lot less expensive to build than those engines as well.   I'm running hydraulic lifters and stock valve train...

  I have seen some serious HP made from the engines like Ralph mentioned and they all made it at very high RPM, like 8500 rpm.  Not easy to get to that RPM level with a pump...   How about some positive ideas rather than the classic 'no can do' approach.
Shirl

you missed the point - ralph has spent a ton of money rebuilding his 500~ish inch motor to come back and race NJ. I am putting my 513 back together to do the same - WHY? because we both missed what racing was about - having fun. Thats what NJ was about. Where it wasnt about the fastest boat with the owner with the deepest pockets - it was about the better driver.

changing this RR rule will eliminate both of us from running.  :thumbdown:
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on March 17, 2013, 12:33:52 PM
Brad, go back and read post #7.  That should take care of the problem...
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: jim brock on March 17, 2013, 01:10:39 PM
leave it the way it is and let everyone have fun !!!!!!
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Arappahow on March 18, 2013, 07:57:18 PM

 
And as to getting out your wallet to run CJ, that just got a whole lot more expensive today.  Whose going to try and compete with Jack and Tom.  Congratulations to them for setting the kilo record up by 11 mph, I hope they haven't killed the class in the process.
Shirl

Shirl,
do you honestly think we are gonna run the same set up on the circle track that we ran on a straight 3 mile course, not even.  I (we) race because we're competitive, and want to win, thats why i do it.  i want as much competition as possible, but i'm not going to go any slower, well maybe. 
Come on, you did great last race keep it up and show what you can do.
 see ya at Parker
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: wizard612 on March 18, 2013, 08:45:06 PM
You guys have a problem... NJ as is "Nostalga" meaning, from the point of view of the people on the beach, it's a parade race of vintage boats.  The GPS rule then makes sense since your not trying to out speed each other but out drive each other. If you talk about RR Jet the "river racer" indicates it's more contemporary i.e. it's more "run what you brung to the river" kind of class and implies it's a "I spent more than you did" hardware over driver kind of race.  But the bottom line is circle racing can't support ether class yet.  Try to keep building CJ until you can maybe get 15 boat fields and TV time on Speed.  Then the guy with a dusty old southwind might try to race in NJ and the guy who has the 1100 hp Rodgers without a ride plate will go try RR.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: 76 Bonneville on March 18, 2013, 10:22:25 PM
Shirl,
do you honestly think we are gonna run the same set up on the circle track that we ran on a straight 3 mile course, not even.  I (we) race because we're competitive, and want to win, thats why i do it.  i want as much competition as possible, but i'm not going to go any slower, well maybe. 
Come on, you did great last race keep it up and show what you can do.
 see ya at Parker
Hey Tom,
I gotta say from my perspective, we all want to win, or at least have a chance of winning.
I just picked up the Warlock last week so that we may run a couple races this year, but after this weekend I have to revaluate that decision. R/R may be the place for us.
In 2011 my son and I lost US-1 by two points to Mark and the R&D team. It was painful and I wondered how is guy like me going to be able to beat a guy with a team behind him. Maybe we can't, maybe the class has evolved into a team class to be competitive.
You guys are a class act and I have the utmost respect for all of you.
Good luck with your US-1 quest
Feel free to call me 760-803-5484
Ron
 
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on March 28, 2013, 08:26:08 PM
I literally took a 70 mph, 18 foot, full upholstery, family jetboat and dropped a fin in it and went racing against full tilt race boats.

I freakin dominated..... (the back of the field)
And to think that every driver (except 2) was a rookie and there we went, under Terrys guidance, we lined up great and everyone finished safely and the energy in the pits and from the crowd when we got back was absolutely focking ELECTRIC!
It took me weeks to wipe that shit eating grin off my face.

Some guys had drivers and some of us pulled double duty.
The point was that anyone willing to yank all their interior out and put in a kill switch could do this and not because there boat hauled ass but to have fun "Racing"
I had never raced before and having the mph cap at almost arms reach made an occasional win seem attainable.

Terry said very early on that fresh blood is going keep jet boat racing alive .
Knowing I was a very small investment ftom the front of the pack kept me going.
A couple years ago there was some talk of making nj a requirment before stepping into cj which I thought was awesome.
I really can't see any negatives to the way nj is set up. It is perfect for what its set up to do.

Honestly words cannot describe how much fun nj is.
Just do it.
The entire class really is like one big team.
We all wanted to see everyone race and we all helped each other.
Regardless of wallets,  not everyone "arrived" all the time.

Fuck! I could ramble on all night.

-beerjet-

Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GT Jets on March 28, 2013, 10:44:00 PM
I am just going to throw a couple pennies into the ring, here is a little disclaimer, just finished several glasses of a very nice wine with my spaghetti...

Way back when, there was this sport called Whitewater marathon racing, the sport was virtually brand new here in the states...

Here we were, we had an aluminum fishing boat, enough know how to be extremely dangerous, more time than money, and no fear... (otherwise known as stupidity)... And we got that old scow running hard, I think we even broke the 65mph mark and could still steer the thing.

We were running the small block class, up to 360 cubic inches, single carburetor, naturally aspirated.

Let me tell you this. We had a snowballs chance in hell of ever beating anybody. But we finished every leg of the race, didn't break or crash out and had a bunch of fun for cheap. I think we had $500 each in the boat including safety gear (there were three of us).

The next year, better boat, bigger motor, faster speed, more stress, waaaaay more money and a disproportionate lack of fun.

The funny part was, we took it too seriously, we actually finished in a much lowerplace overall because of mechanical failures.

All this being said. All of the fun can be had in the entry level and the experience is something you will literally remember forever.

What beerjet said is spot frikken on.

Don't get hung up on the rules, the fast boats break more often, the consistent boats make every start, most of all there is a ton of fun to be had,a long as you don't take it too serious.

I need to go sleep it off...

GT
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: 78CoLe on April 10, 2013, 09:49:39 PM
cu limits cost money in any category class  RR is kinda like a bracket class so the guy with the best driving ability has a huge advantage and decent hardware helps

fyi Jim Brocks cj460 is close to your purposed ci limit and it runs a flat tappet cam and runs in the 90's easily(handles like shit)
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on April 11, 2013, 06:59:57 AM
fyi Jim Brocks cj460 is close to your purposed ci limit and it runs a flat tappet cam and runs in the 90's easily(handles like shit)

Sounds like a perfect RR boat, takes a lot of skill to drive an ill handling boat...  Okay, along with the cid limit, only allow one carb or T/B.  You guys could have had just as much fun with class limits and no GPS.  Do like the SE class does, target the rules to limit speed to 85mph.  That way we could combine RR and SE when ever there was a low boat count.  it would help both classes.  I think it was really cool to see the jets duking it out with the flaty...

This class got off to a rocky start, but with some help I think it can survive...  So what does it take?  Obviously money doesn't do it...  Change the rules to attract more interest.  I'll campaign a RR boat if we ditch the GPS.
Shirl
CJ60
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on April 11, 2013, 07:41:49 AM
I personally think you should start your own class, leave NJ/RR alone.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: 78CoLe on April 11, 2013, 01:17:38 PM
Sounds like a perfect RR boat, takes a lot of skill to drive an ill handling boat...  Okay, along with the cid limit, only allow one carb or T/B.  You guys could have had just as much fun with class limits and no GPS.  Do like the SE class does, target the rules to limit speed to 85mph.  That way we could combine RR and SE when ever there was a low boat count.  it would help both classes.  I think it was really cool to see the jets duking it out with the flaty...

This class got off to a rocky start, but with some help I think it can survive...  So what does it take?  Obviously money doesn't do it...  Change the rules to attract more interest.  I'll campaign a RR boat if we ditch the GPS.
Shirl
CJ60

so lets say you allow a 468ci limit that a 80 over chevy and a 60 over ford and a 60 over olds and lets say you must run a factory iron head, with a any production cast single 4 barrel intake, motors must retain stock stroke configurations, nothing over a 4.400 bore, nothing longer that factory length rods, limit the cam to a .600 lift at the rocker with a FT or .525 with a roller both measured at the rocker tip, no porting of the cylinder heads or intake manifolds, limit the carburator or TB to 850 cfm and only aloow a 1" carb spacer, stock valve sizes per head factory spec. and your LS based motor could only be the same .80 over bore with factory chevy parts not lsx or chevy race production parts IE cranks, blocks is this what your implying?
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on April 11, 2013, 05:09:19 PM
Okay, to keep Brad happy lets say we want to set up some rules for a hypothetical 'Ski Jet' class.  The objective is to set it up like the SE class by restricting engine power so that the boats run about 85mph, no GPS.  Also, lets set up the rules to keep the costs down and easy to police.  The easiest thing to do is mimic the Comp Jet rules with lower cid limits.  So I would propose the following engine rules:
1.  Big block engines must run iron blocks with 468 cid limit.
2.  Small block engines with iron block, same as big block limit, 468 cid.
3.  Small block engines with aluminum blocks limited to 442 cid.
4.  Aluminium heads okay for both small block and big block engines so long as the ports are in the original factory location.  No spread port or raised port heads allowed.
5.  Must run a cast aluminum intake manifold with a single 4150 carb pattern.
6.  Any 4150 carb or throttle body is okay.
7.  EFI is okay so long as it meets rule 6.
  No other engine restrictions.  I propose that there also be some general rules to limit boats that run above 85mph as follows:
General rule #1.  Any boat running consistently faster than 85 mph (as determined by radar or spot check GPS) will be subject to running a restrictor plate or rev limiter to manage excessive speeds, imposed by the rules committee.
General rule #2.  The first year, any boat wanting to run this class with a larger displacement engine will be grandfathered in but subject to general rule #1.  Grandfathered boats must comply with all other engine rules except the cid limits.  Participation of grandfathered boats in follow on years will be subject to rules committee discretion.  (if they run 85 mph or less, no problem)
General rule #3.  Boat hulls must meet the same rules as Comp Jet.

  Some comments about these rules. 
1.  Since there is an 85mph speed objective backed up by potential engine restrictions (Gen. rule #1) it would not pay for someone to spend excessive amounts of money on an engine that would be restricted if it went too fast.  This is the mechanism to keep the costs down.
2.  It is not necessary to add a bunch of engine rules on cams, bore, stroke, rod length etc. because of Gen. rule #1.  Therefore, the rules are easy to police and a P&G machine is all that would be needed to verify compliance.  No need for tear down inspections and endless protests.

  I offer the above as a discussion starting point.  Lets have some rational discussion about this 'hypothetical jet boat class'.  Since this is all speculation, no need to point out that we don't have enough boats now and don't need another jet boat class.

Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on April 11, 2013, 05:23:06 PM
I don't understand why another class is even needed.....what's the point of all this again?

-beerjet-
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: jim brock on April 11, 2013, 05:51:22 PM
WHY are you trying to change the class when we don't even have enough boats to fill this one, this class was ment to take the boat you have and go out and have fun wether is 500 cu in or a blown small block you can take it out and have fun without building another boat, if you get hooked on it you can come out with a comp jet and build it to the rules,this class has no restrictions no limits, no cheaters, just a speed limit!!!!!! perfect to learn how to drive, this class bring out the driver in you!!!!  LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!!   CJ 460
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on April 11, 2013, 06:11:15 PM
I don't understand why another class is even needed.....what's the point of all this again?

-beerjet-
because he cant win in comp jet.

will you be doing away with rr? or is this a hole new class
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on April 11, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
The people in charge are usually pretty good about pushing issues to the level like they did when they decided to bring Comp Jet back.

I think the best I ever did was 3rd place and only because there was 4 boats and one broke.
No pressure,  just go out and run!
Good times for sure.

-beerjet-
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: 78CoLe on April 11, 2013, 06:46:58 PM
I agree why start another class when either classes arent being fullfilled and I also Believe any one wanting to run CJ or a proposed SJ class they need to spend their rooking time or maybe longer in RR Jet. this isnt about taking away from either class, I think what shirl is trying to get at is the option of a essentially a stock componets class that doesnt require building a all out competition motor and boat that has a bit more varaity of competition to it thats why no 80.999 speed limit is all
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: mash on it on April 11, 2013, 08:00:34 PM
4.  Aluminium heads okay for both small block and big block engines so long as the ports are in the original factory location.  No spread port or raised port heads allowed.

Does this mean vortec and zz4 is out?

Dan'l
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on April 12, 2013, 10:14:19 AM
4.  Aluminium heads okay for both small block and big block engines so long as the ports are in the original factory location.  No spread port or raised port heads allowed.

Does this mean vortec and zz4 is out?

Dan'l

Dan,  Under my plan any OEM casting would be okay including the ZZ4 and Vortec.  Only aftermarket, non standard port heads would be excluded.

Ralph,  No need to attack the messenger just because you don't like the message.  I may not be winning but I'm out there every race running hard with the best Comp Jets in the country.  Haven't seen you out there though...  I'll be curious to see if you have the guts to climb up in the seat and hammer the throttle in an 800hp Comp Jet at age 71 like I do.

I am not trying to replace the RR/NJ class unless it fails.  I think one problem with the RR/NJ format is the GPS speed is too high.  Not many lake boats that can run 81 mph.  If you drop the limit to GPS 70 mph you might find more takers...  I just want to see an entry level class succeed whether it is RR/NJ or SJ, we need to cultivate more good racers that can step up to Comp Jet.

My opinion, yours may vary,
Shirl
CJ60
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on April 12, 2013, 10:31:20 AM
Mine was a 400-425 hp (on a good day) all steel, all gm, oval port solid flat tappet cam 2 bolt chevy in a fat pig hull and ran 74 and some change mph.
A lot of tuning went into that 74mph.
And I came in dead last 90% of the time.
So imma have to disagree on the 80 mph limit being an issue.
I would say, Grow RR/NJ into a consistent full class AND THEN, purpose another class.
What's killing RR/NJ is fresh blood!
The first race is the hardest!
I applaude your efforts but RR/NJ is perfect in that it encompasses any and every single boat that floats.
Get them on the water FIRST!
Then sell them on a spec class.

-beerjet-
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: terrytav on April 12, 2013, 12:07:51 PM
I do not believe that another class is needed. RR/Nj is suppose to be an entry level class for those that might be interested in racing and have a family/river boat that they can do little safety modifications to and come out to have fun.For most it will be all that they want and need to do The GPS speed limit is so they can hone their driving skills . This is entirely a run what you brung class . When it was first used some ten+ years ago we started with 70 MPH and have moved it up to what we felt was reasonable. 80 MPH is a good limit. If they want to go faster then step up to CJ>SS<PS or Gn racing.  In these times we are going thru its hard to fill existing classes.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: SoCalPSD on April 12, 2013, 12:43:18 PM
Man this boat racing stuff seems complicated. I'd be awesome if there was a class that was simply a run what you brung family boat kind of class . I know via GPS my kona ran up to 68 with little more than 5 gallons of gas, a small tool bag, me and a fire extinguisher when I first took it out. No pd, logs, mild cam and a nasty booger patch on the bottom. Even then I ran it up higher than anyone in there right mind would an olds.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: MrEracer on April 12, 2013, 01:48:24 PM
I do not believe that another class is needed. RR/Nj is suppose to be an entry level class for those that might be interested in racing and have a family/river boat that they can do little safety modifications to and come out to have fun.For most it will be all that they want and need to do The GPS speed limit is so they can hone their driving skills . This is entirely a run what you brung class . When it was first used some ten+ years ago we started with 70 MPH and have moved it up to what we felt was reasonable. 80 MPH is a good limit. If they want to go faster then step up to CJ>SS<PS or Gn racing.  In these times we are going thru its hard to fill existing classes.

Terry,  Please do not miss understand my position on RR/NJ.  In my previous post I stated: 
"I am not trying to replace the RR/NJ class unless it fails".  I have specifically stated that I was not trying to add another class, but to make changes to the existing class that would improve participation.  We both know that RR/NJ is on life support.  Something needs to change to make it more attractive to potential new racers.  I have suggested dropping the GPS speed limit or lowering the GPS speed.   There have to be other ideas out there that will bring the boats off the lake and on to the track. If you do not do something, it's going to die... If all else fails and RR/NJ dies, I would then (and only then) be interested in something like a new SJ class to take its place...  You would think that there would be nothing wrong with kicking around some ideas that would make things better, but all it seems to generate is animosity...
Shirl
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Bull20 on April 12, 2013, 05:27:13 PM
O'boy, Can I be a GNJ? I have the big tanks!  ;)
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Ralph Brunt on April 12, 2013, 05:54:25 PM
Ralph,  No need to attack the messenger just because you don't like the message.  I may not be winning but I'm out there every race running hard with the best Comp Jets in the country.  Haven't seen you out there though...  I'll be curious to see if you have the guts to climb up in the seat and hammer the throttle in an 800hp Comp Jet at age 71 like I do.


Shirl, that was not an attack, and no you have not seen me race. Thats because when I and a few others were making every race and being treated like step children just because we wanted to race our little jet boats in n/j so we could bring the c/j class back YOU were NOT there...

Hell i wont race c/j now so if you wanted a pat on the back there ya go ;)

It seems that you are either trying to change rr to your advantage or do away with it all together when you cant fill it now.. I told you before, if you want another class bring the boats and Ross will put it in the program..  I am not against another class but first you must have boats, do you have 5 boats to make the show?? Bring the boats under the current c/j r/r rules and class and branch off from that, i can tell you from my experience of being a part of the group trying to bring c/j back, you will have to have boats and commitment from those boats before you have rules
ralph
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: terrytav on April 13, 2013, 07:51:22 AM
Shirl  I understand where your coming from. I am not ready to give up on RR/NJ . I believe there are plenty of people who would like to race and it's just a matter of family , finances, timing etc.  We got three to show and I think the very first NJ race at Lake ming had a total of 4. There might  nothave been enough time for some individuals to get their boats ready as I have been told. Human nature has a habit of people procrastinating until the last minute and then not being able to get it done. Lets wait and see until the next opportunity arises to schedule a RR/NJ race. 
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on April 13, 2013, 09:19:25 AM
I think the original "SoCalJetboats Race Team" needs to come back....
That's what I think.
All this jaw jacking is getting old.
Then we'll see who REALLY wants to race!

-beerjet-
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: flytime on April 13, 2013, 11:17:23 AM
Couldn't agree more Omar. Those were some good times!!
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on April 13, 2013, 12:10:02 PM
Couldn't agree more Omar. Those were some good times!!

Couldn't agree with you more Bob.

-beerjet-
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: propless on April 14, 2013, 12:01:05 AM
I think the original "SoCalJetboats Race Team" needs to come back....
That's what I think.
All this jaw jacking is getting old.
Then we'll see who REALLY wants to race!

-beerjet-

Couldn't agree more Omar. Those were some good times!!

 Yea those where the days.  :thumbup:

 Go beerjet Go !!!!!

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi243.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff268%2Fshortbus_hamb%2FLake%2520Ming%252010-07%2Fming038.jpg&hash=fa4dfdfca721fa745b8194c0cf39a56f65c217f7)
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on April 14, 2013, 11:23:45 AM
Yea those where the days.  :thumbup:

 Go beerjet Go !!!!!

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi243.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff268%2Fshortbus_hamb%2FLake%2520Ming%252010-07%2Fming038.jpg&hash=fa4dfdfca721fa745b8194c0cf39a56f65c217f7)

Thank you Proppy!
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GlassCutter on April 14, 2013, 02:14:45 PM
Love that shot more than when I first saw it.   :thumbup:
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: bigboy_77 on August 03, 2013, 09:13:17 PM
I just saw the RRJ races at Long Beach today and thought it was pretty awesome and maybe its something I could do without too much work to my boat. 

There hasn't been much on here since April so can anyone point me to find the rules for this class?

Thanks.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GlassCutter on August 03, 2013, 09:43:01 PM
There were several rookie drivers today.   The one racing with Ralph's class got quite a story to tell.  He came as close to hitting therocks as one can, without hurting the boat.  Even got it running again after the shower and finished the heat.
I think all you need is some minimal race grade safety gear, a pocket full of money, and a   boat that can run 80 mph for 15 minutes at a time.

Oh yeah, and the freakish desire to ruin said boat by beating the piss out of it.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Just Electric on August 03, 2013, 11:06:47 PM
True indeed I bet he will do better Sunday. Next race I'm not backing out even if I have to borrow money to race. Had more fun and chill time helping the class today and watching jerms dad and Ralph's smile after each heat makes it worth it.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Just Electric on August 03, 2013, 11:08:10 PM
This class makes the fun of hanging with good friends and peeps on top of trying not to break out the speed limit. Looks easy but harder than most think
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: bigboy_77 on August 04, 2013, 08:37:55 AM
There were several rookie drivers today.   The one racing with Ralph's class got quite a story to tell.  He came as close to hitting therocks as one can, without hurting the boat.  Even got it running again after the shower and finished the heat.
I think all you need is some minimal race grade safety gear, a pocket full of money, and a   boat that can run 80 mph for 15 minutes at a time.

Oh yeah, and the freakish desire to ruin said boat by beating the piss out of it.

Thanks!  What is the average cost per race event for a slower class like this? 
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: GlassCutter on August 04, 2013, 10:45:45 AM
I think when I was trying to figure that out a few months ago I came in around $300.  I probably didn't figure in motel rooms or fuel for the tow vehicle either.  Figurd on racing the entire season so that your money paid to the sanctioning orgs and for safety equipment get spread out over a year, otherwise just one race is gonna be expensive.
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: beerjet on August 04, 2013, 08:18:03 PM
Thanks!  What is the average cost per race event for a slower class like this?
Gotta buy a helmet. (One time purchase)
Paint it orange.
Lifeline jacket is in the $300 range. (One time purchase) 
$100 a day to race.
At least 20 gallons of fuel.
Food,  lodging.
I know I missed a few things but anyways it ain't cheap but it's also spread out pretty so it's not really expensive either. 
A mild pump gas motor will be just perfect and more than anything,  reliable!

-beerjet-

Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: Bull20 on August 04, 2013, 08:57:46 PM
Don't forget the 100 dollar helmet restraint and kill switch. Come out and play!
Title: Re: River Racer Jet Class Proposal
Post by: bigboy_77 on August 04, 2013, 10:15:29 PM
Thanks guys.  I have some work to do but I am thinking about it getting this together.  I know my boat is not fast enough to win but I am sure I could use the seat time before really stepping up.
SMFPacks CMS 1.0.3 © 2026