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Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« on: July 18, 2013, 11:14:15 PM »
Hey guys,

I have an 18ft tahiti, with a hardin 454, 10:5.1 pistons, pretty rowdy cam(Dont know specs) and it has the 049 large oval port heads with an air gap rpm intake and holley 750 vacuum sec. The boat will run fine until i hit 4,000 rpm, it starts popping/ cutting out. First thing i did was put in bigger jets, went from the 72 size to 74. Took it out and it went to 4,700rpm then cut out, I noticed the secondaries werent opening so I put in a lighter spring, that made them open, so I took it out for another run and this time it started cutting out at 4,200 rpm. SO then I took an edelbrock 600 cfm carb, put it on there and took it for another run, This time once again it cut out at 4,200. Could this simply be a jetting issue? I'm hoping its just running too lean. It has a newer street fire HEI dizzy and brand new spark plugs. Tomorrow Im going to put in new plug wires and bigger jets. Btw it has a stock mechanical fuel pump.
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Beaveretriever

  • Karma: +34/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 12:25:30 AM »
You might be running out of fuel in the float bowls. I had the same prolem on a 468 with a 850 vac secondary and had to use a high volume holley pump. I have one that is brand new with -6 fittings for sale that I used for 3 days in blythe. Bought it from a speed shop in blythe for $160 ill sell it for $130

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  • Boat #1: 1981 Eliminator Daytona 19' Jet
  • Boat #2: 2003 22' Placecraft Deck boat
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Xthaspot

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 08:56:36 AM »
Just a question. Do you have a fuel regulator and gauge? I had the same problem my engine would just cut out at about 4,800 rpms like I was getting off the throttle. Adjusted the fuel pressure coming into the carbs because I'm running dual quad tunnel ram and that problem went away.
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Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 10:29:24 AM »
I dont have a pressure reg or gauge. Im going to buy a gauge tonight and see if the pressure drops off at that speed. Im also going to check the advance weights in the dizzy to see if their stuck. The fuel pump is the stock mechanical one. You think it might not be enough?
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berkbryan

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 12:05:35 PM »
Its fuel I had the same problem stock fuel pump can not keep up

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TJS Nordic

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 12:39:59 PM »
Any kind of feedback would be helpful. Any engine I had, no matter car, truck or boat I would not even think of running it without a fuel pressure gauge or a boost gauge. I always had one eye on my boost and fuel when in my boat.  Never had a hint of problems with it either.

Ok, you also want to make sure that you are not vapor locking (fuel press gauge will show this) your system. The cause could be lack of fuel venting. Most of these boats have built in vents in the caps. If they fail to vent the tank it could cause vapor lock. I never trusted this set up so I made my own vent set up. You need to inspect from the pickup tubes in the tanks (make sure they are not clogged, cracked, i.e. sucking air or fell off) all the way to the pump, lines and carb. If you are going to keep the big block happy and want to run a mechanical pump put a Clay Smith pump on it and you should be good to go. Also you want to make sure your fuel line size is adequate. Back when these boats were stock from the factory (mild BBC) the fuel systems were produced to just be able to support the stock BBC. I have seen some fuel hoses that were less than ¼” inside diameter.  My system was completely overkill, ¾” id pickup tubes with -12AN to1200HP  EFI pump to -10AN to -10AN fuel rails. With the line off and the pump on it looked like a garden hose on full blast.

Then again you could be barking up the wrong tree and it possibly could be an ignition or timing issue. However fuel pressure readings and making sure your ignition curve is correct is the place to start.

Xthaspot

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 02:54:57 PM »
I think it could be the fuel pump. I run an aftermarket holly fuel pump. With anything electric the fuel pressure will be way higher than the carbs can handle so that's why you would need the regulator and gauge to control that.
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Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 10:06:58 PM »
Ok guys,

I am going to list what ive done so far-- after everything ive done there is still no change at 4,000rpm

What ive changed:

Holley 110 gph fuel pump

Bumped Jets up from 74 to 80s

Rebuilt the carb and also tried another carb that I know works well

Replaced fuel filters

Replaced Cap/Rotor and Condenser and Ignition controle module and coil

Ive checked and cleaned all my grounds, I ran the boat with the tach unplugged and the alternator unplugged, Ive ran the fuel pump off a 5 gallon gas can of fresh 92 octane.

Ive checked for vacuum leaks several times

Ive ran it with the vacuum advanced disconnected

Whether the boat has a load on it or even if I rev it on the trailer it still breaks up around 4,000RPM

 :banghead: :mad:   IS there anything you guys think I should checked?? Im seriously out of options at this point. The only thing left that I think it might be is either the mechanical advance weights and springs need to be changed or the distributor has some other type of problem that I dont know about.
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Mr Plow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2013, 07:22:45 AM »
How about a compression check?
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2013, 08:53:11 AM »
ok here are a couple of things you can check, its a little far out there but.....    pull both valve covers and crank the motor over, too make sure your cam is still good. if a lobe has worn off the engine will pop at higher rpms. its rare but it does happen.
  • Boat #1: boat less
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Xthaspot

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2013, 09:01:18 AM »
ok here are a couple of things you can check, its a little far out there but.....    pull both valve covers and crank the motor over, too make sure your cam is still good. if a lobe has worn off the engine will pop at higher rpms. its rare but it does happen.
You know what now that you mention this I had a buddy who was experiencing the same thing and after pretty much everything was done like this situation it was a flat cam giving him all that trouble.
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Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2013, 11:08:34 AM »
Thats exactly what I plan on doing today, Im doing a comp test and im going to watch the rockers to see if one doesnt move as much. At this point im really starting to think it is something internal.
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Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2013, 08:11:17 PM »
Welp,

I did the comp test and all cylinders were between 150-130 one cylinder was at 118 but I doubt that is the culprit. All rockers seemed to have the same movement which would rule out a flat cam. I looked over the valve springs real closely and they all seemed to b in good shape as well. I am stumped. The only thing else I can think of is running a wire from the battery straight to the battery terminal on the hei and trying a completely different distributor in it.
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2013, 08:21:30 PM »
ok sp your running a hei ????   try this check all the grounds, add a couple for an experiment . next look at the hei put the cap rotor alll the way to the weights , see if there rusting???  if so check the bearing in the dist.   you maybe shorting out after the weights open fully.
  • Boat #1: boat less
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RockyCapone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2013, 08:56:37 PM »
Wow no shit!? I never seen or heard of that. Can't imagine the hair pulled out figuring out that one.

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1978 Southwind Formula 1 T body
454 Berkley
IF I GET BORED AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO I'M CALLING GTJETS AND ASKING HIM IF I SHOULD RUN A T-STAT IN MY JETBOAT--THAT SHOULD BURN OFF 8 HOURS EASY
....it would have been cheaper to spend our money on cocaine and hookers

Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2013, 11:32:22 PM »
Ive checked the weights and they are in perfect shape. The bearing seems to be ok too. The only thing i cant think of to do is to try a new dizzy and see what happens.
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rivermikey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2013, 11:10:09 PM »
Did you check your spark plug wires any small cracks will cause it to ground out that wire and you will back fire and sputter out at the higher rpm....in your post you said you were going to change the spark plug wires out  but never posted you actually did so
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 11:13:36 PM by rivermikey »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Hardin Marine
  • Boat #2: 2005 shockwave skier
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 07:49:16 AM »
just for fun whats the oil like?  does it smell like fuel?   that cyl that is 118 whats the plug look like ? does your motor burn oil?
  • Boat #1: boat less
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cuz_im_CR

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 09:36:04 AM »
I had a bronco once with a stuck intake valve that would backfire through the intake...

 Are you positive you don't have a stuck exhaust valve. It would make sense as to why one cylinder would be much lower on compression than the others...

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Ckaz21

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 454 cutting out at 4,000 RPMS-- Banging My Head!
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 09:46:44 PM »
The motor doesnt burn any oil nor does it have any blow-by. It doesnt smell like gas and it looks fairly used but not bad. I'm starting to suspect a burnt valve. Im going to run a leak down test on it tomorrow and I'll let you guys know the results.
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