SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Engine Mechanical / Electrical => Topic started by: Handi-Crack on August 03, 2014, 02:06:49 PM
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So from my last post.. our rebuilt motor with about an hour on it broke down. Looks like over heating was the cause of rod knock. I did some research on how an olds 455 should be plumbed. I noticed the diagram is different from mine. Could this be the cause of motor failure? Here are some pics
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Btw it has gleenwood exhaust
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Can anyone tell me how water travels up up hill against gravity and exhaust pressure? I truly and confused, Any pics of how logs work internally? I'll google iti guess
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from the pics you posted, it appears to be plumbed correctly, although that is different than the diagram. Heres why- Some logs have BOTH in and out flow connections on the front, However, yours enter at the rear and flow to the front, and from there should go to the water pump block off plate. After the water comes out the t-stat housing, it goes to the snails.
The snails are only water jacketed about 3/4 of the way, and this is where the water and exhaust combine to go through the exhaust hoses, at about 3 o'clock.
Over heating by itself doesn't cause a rod knock, but getting water into the oil like from a blown head gasket would. Or there is multiple problems.
Good luck
Dan'l
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No water in the oil and thanks for the info
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When you got a rod knock did you look at the oil pressure??? What was it??? I have the distinction of spinning all the rod bearings . Oil pressure went down to just about 5.
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Was at 50 when I heard a noise that's when I parked it.knowing it was a new motor I was nonstop watching the gauges We then walked it out to deeper water to turn it on and check the oil pressure. It would be low like 0-5 but then raised when given some gas. When we left to head to the launch ramp the noise got worse but pressure and temp where normal then it got real bad and ideled across the lake and back to the ramp. When the noise happend motor was at about 2500 cause I was coming into a 5mph zone. It didn't knock at idle untell almost have way to the ramp
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Have you drained the oil yet ???and looked at it?? If you have a rod knock there will be a lot of evidence in the oil!
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I haven't but will for sure tomorrow and post pics of what comes out. Appreciate the help guys
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Okay drained the oil and clean no metal flakes in it and poped the valve covers off to just see it there was a bad rocker everything was nice and tight no breaks.
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Well now?? You need to find that knock. You may have to pull the motor flip it over pull the pan and check bearings .
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Something is amiss....
Can you go through the events that started all this again? I don't know what "other thread" you are talking about.
sorry... Didn't want to have to go back and forth, rather keep it all on this one..
I know...........PITA :screwy:
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Long story short this was the 2nd time out less than an hour on the rebuilt motor. Temp was at 210 at idle then dropped to 150-170 when running even at very low speeds. Ran good both days a week part. Then after the 3rd run around pyramid then what I typed above happened and no idea why. Just going to have to pl the motor with some help that's been offered by moarpower since I don't have the space or tools to do that at my house.
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You might have sucked a valve. Olds are so delicate when it come to water flow/temp oil flow/return. Set your olds at just a tad cooler but your pretty close to where it needs to be. If you open it to much you risk water cracking the head around the valves. Do you have a 10qt pan or opened up your oil drains in the heads? Log exhaust is simple regardless of motor log style. Basically water in to log then out(2 different fitting mounts water in water out), then to front of block( where a water pump would be if car/plate with 2 hookups) then out of top manifold to snails....your logs are double walled.
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I should have posted a pic after I removed the covers. Yes the drains are opened up on the left and right side plus was told one other oil mod. I don't have any paper work on what was done I'm an idiot for not making him give me something. That's on me so lesson learned. I know the pan is much larger than what was on before. Sure it's atleast 10 filled most of the 15 gallon oil pan I have. I just need to fix it and sell the motor I don't want to deal with such a finicky motor. From air scoop to tips if I can get them out. Should have done a Chevy like so many people told me to
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I'd just fix what is wrong and keep it. Why only to sell it and put a chevy in it???
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I hear nothing but bad about them and I thought we covered the oil issue but bam. Re used the old pistons but was told they would be fine and some work was done to them. I just want to get it fixed. Just have to be patient but it sure is hard once you get hooked
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I hear nothing but bad about them and I thought we covered the oil issue but bam. Re used the old pistons but was told they would be fine and some work was done to them. I just want to get it fixed. Just have to be patient but it sure is hard once you get hooked
I am going to just be bold and sound like a total dick right now.
YOUR PROBLEMS ARE NOT OLDSMOBILE RELATED...... Your shit would still be broken even if you had a 540 Donovan in it.
K. I feel better now.
GT
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What carb were you running? Running lean could have caused you to heat the valves up and stretched them out, creating bent valves....
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I am going to just be bold and sound like a total dick right now.
YOUR PROBLEMS ARE NOT OLDSMOBILE RELATED...... Your shit would still be broken even if you had a 540 Donovan in it.
K. I feel better now.
GT
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Sound like the guy who built it. Sorry I'm not some jet boat guru but I do know how to drive a boat and read Gauges.
And if you think I'm the problem feel free to explain just curious
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Was running an edelbrock 750.
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What was the jetting?
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No clue was never given the info and I can see why GT said what he did. Trying to learn and have a ton to read up on
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Sound like the guy who built it. Sorry I'm not some jet boat guru but I do know how to drive a boat and read Gauges.
And if you think I'm the problem feel free to explain just curious
Not coming straight out and blaming you... However, every time I see someone having NORMAL failures due to improper set ups and it happens to be an Olds, that is the first thing that gets blamed.
Do you guys have any idea how many Oldsmobile jets there are out there still running since the early seventies? It would be very easy for me to say several thousand of them. I personally know of at least 10.
Your carburetor has automotive jetting, those things do not work at all on a jet boat motor without a shit ton of work. They're horrible. Anybody who says theirs works great either has been very lucky, have no idea what they are talking about, or spent some serious time tweaking it.
Running a marine engine at 210°F, for even a few minutes, is begging for a catastrophic failure, does not matter what engine make it is. This thing should have ran at 150°F max and cruised at less than 130°F without any drama whatsoever.
If the plumbing is not correct and working the way it is supposed to, you will blow it up, again, does not matter if it is a $40,000 race engine.
Basically, and why I am telling you this, is you would have had all the same issues if you had built a Chevy. Figure out where the problem is/was before you switch flavors thinking all your problems are going to magically go away, I assure you, they wont.
Don't take any offense, not my intention, just don't blame a 40 year old engine. A 454 Chevy has more similarities than it does differences to an Oldsmobile, they were made in the same building.
Rant over...
GT
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No clue was never given the info and I can see why GT said what he did. Trying to learn and have a ton to read up on
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Again, I was not hammering you personally, not how I roll. All I was trying to convey is that your problems are not brand specific.
Do you have a spark plug from this dealio? Can you post a picture of it?
GT
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I take no offense at all I like to here what the guys with knowledge have to say. I'm new to this so I have a lot to learn.
I didn't build the motor I paid to have it done an went way over budget and it didn't start when I picked it up that was dumb of me. When it was over heating the first time out he had no answear to why. just went off what the builder told me. I was told some stuff needed to be changed but will be fine for short term.
Soon I can get it someplace to tear down or I might just rent/ a picker and stand and go at it. No garage at my house so it's hard. Once I figure out the problem/problems I'll start ordering parts. Also replace parts that are on it that should be upgraded to the right parts
Just want to say thanks to in advance for the help
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I can pull and take pics tomorrow gotta be up at 3am again for work. Grubbing them off to bed
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Okay pics of the plugs, hope this helps
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What I see there is three things...
One, It looks to me that that deal was pretty lean, hard to tell from the picture but they look too clean.
Two, the gap looks to be too large. Any idea what the gap was set at?
The heat range also looks to be low... What plugs, ignition and timing?
GT
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Try and start at the beginning of the water supply back the ass in of the boat in the water disconnect the waterline to the motor and start it see if you have good water flow out of the pump then wrk your way forward assuming it's overheating cause of water related issues could have a clogged line
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I did drain the oil yesterday and not sure what you mean by clean. Here is a pic of the plug brand wich where new from what the builder told me.
As for ignition the the key ignition is a seahawg brand new that I was also told needed to be replaced but acted the same as the old one. Here are the distributed and MSD part I was told all of this was fine to run
The gap in the plugs are as thick as a quarter if not bigger
Timing no idea like I said before the guy I paid to do the build gave me no papper work and I was an idiot to be okay with that my stupid ass trusted him.
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Yah that's what I saw too. The plugs look like they have not been run. And that gap is way to wide!!! Well one good thing , no oil up there!!!
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In my opinion, the gap should be about .035"-.040", no more.
I guess a 44 heat range plug is OK, you really need to get it running better before you change heat ranges.
You need to get some fuel in that bad boy. Again, my opinion. I would take a big swing at the jetting before you run it after the repairs. I am thinking three whole steps.
Did you find a way to get it torn apart?
GT
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Not sure what a heat ring is but I love the info thanks guys. I thought the gap for the plugs was big from when I rode dirt bikes.
I had an offer from a member to help also I can take it to a friends about 2 hours away can maybe pull it Sunday and flip it pull the pan.
I will continue to post pics any more things to look for?
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Take your time , consider it a labor of love, ask a lot of questions take a lot pics.
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Kyeah wish I had done it myself over a few months instated of paying a "mechanic/455guru" 3800 to put me further back than where I was.
Can't wait to learn hands on thanks again for the help guys
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Not sure what a heat ring is but I love the info thanks guys. I thought the gap for the plugs was big from when I rode dirt bikes.
I had an offer from a member to help also I can take it to a friends about 2 hours away can maybe pull it Sunday and flip it pull the pan.
I will continue to post pics any more things to look for?
Heat range is the amount of energy the spark plug exerts.
Sometimes the tune up is not as straight forward as it should be. I personally guarantee the carburetor will not work "out of the box". That being said, it can be made to work and work well.
Once you get it to a point where you are ready to run it again, grab someones help who is familiar on how they should work.
If I am at all available, I will do what I can.
Relax and it will come...
GT
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Alright so next Saturday we are pulling the motor and seeing what's up. Going to do it at a buddies out in Lancaster off like 140th and G6. Way out there but hell it's a garage not my driveway. If anyone out that way has nothing to do and wants to help or hang out I'll supply some cold ones.
Was going to pick up one of these unless people have had issues with them. Motor stand from pep boys http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/454717/00739 (http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/454717/00739)
I will be posting tons of pics and tons and questions. Time to find a thread of tearing down a motor haha
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Alright so next Saturday we are pulling the motor and seeing what's up. Going to do it at a buddies out in Lancaster off like 140th and G6. Way out there but hell it's a garage not my driveway. If anyone out that way has nothing to do and wants to help or hang out I'll supply some cold ones.
Was going to pick up one of these unless people have had issues with them. Motor stand from pep boys http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/454717/00739 (http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/454717/00739)
I will be posting tons of pics and tons and questions. Time to find a thread of tearing down a motor haha
That engine stand should be OK, four wheels is definitely a MUST.
Buy a box of Zip Lok freezer bags, a Sharpie and a roll or three of Blue Scott shop towels.
GT
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Yeap every set of bolts is getting tagged and bagged and pic with what it cam off of. Gonna try and get some plastic bins to store stuff in as well. The stand says 1250lbs I believe.
Excited and nervous but can't wait to learn.
What are some good places to look for parts? Olds seem to be hard to find
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Was going to pick up one of these unless people have had issues with them. Motor stand from pep boys http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/454717/00739 (http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/454717/00739)
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I have 2 engine stands and only need 1 if you're interested in saving some money... Located in Highland so the cost of gas might negate any savings but let me know if you're interested... Make an offer
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I am now in the habit of replacing all the fasteners in engine stands, cherry pickers, etc. with Grade 8 or metric Class 10.9 fasteners including the appropriate grade/class of flat and lock washers. I have had the original fasteners, particularly the split lock washers pushed out, causing lost tension and one of the casters almost folded. To me, it is not worth the anxiety of losing an expensive engine because of cheap fasteners.
I would also emphasize that a big block Chevy with iron heads weighs about 850 pounds. Make sure that all of the fasteners are tight. I strongly recommend Oval Lock distorted-thread locknuts as engine stands and cherry pickers will be exposed to all forms of chemicals and lubricants. Make sure that all bolts have at least 3 threads protruding from installed nuts or they will come loose. Cheap insurance so that you don’t walk in one day and see your life’s savings on the ground next to a folded up engine stand.
Good luck,
Joe
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Quick question, so my buddy showed the video to his brother who has buil a few drag card. He thinks it's a valve knock. Says I should check te rockers see if on is in the down position. The noise would be the piston hitting the valve does this sound like it could be the problem?
If so are aluminum heads worth the coin?
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I also have a stand you can use.
In my opinion, aluminum heads aren't worth the coin unless you need them.... And with an olds that is mildly built. I personally don't see a reason. I would get the heads you have and take them to clay smith and have them freshend up.
As far as olds parts goes. What all are you looking for?
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Morepower I was just woundering where you got your carb from I will be replacing that soon as well. If it is a valve knock I will for sure be taking your suggestion to take them to clay smith if it is a valve knock instead of a rod.
As for gas tanks is summit also a good place or is there a better place to look
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Google imco tanks thats the way to go
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Heat range is the amount of energy the spark plug exerts.
is it really the energy the plug exerts(spark energy)....or how much heat it can take/absorb and still stay in the optimal temp range for that particular engine?? just trying to gain knowledge... :beer:
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is it really the energy the plug exerts(spark energy)....or how much heat it can take/absorb and still stay in the optimal temp range for that particular engine?? just trying to gain knowledge... :beer:
It is a tricky question to answer... Basically a high heat range plug Disperses (or absorbs) less heat during combustion than one of a lower heat range.. Meaning the heat stays at the tip (or exerts more energy into the flame circle)... I hope that make sense...
I guess another way to try and explain it would be that the insulator eats up more energy on the colder plug "stealing" it, or "hiding" it from the combustion chamber.
The higher the heat range, the closer you get toward detonation when on the ragged edge.
GT
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now im picking up what your laying down :thumbup:
thats just about what ive read on the matter as well....except the part about putting energy into the spark, but....i totally get what youre saying boss. thanks man!
btw, is CJ comp jet?
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now im picking up what your laying down :thumbup:
thats just about what ive read on the matter as well....except the part about putting energy into the spark, but....i totally get what youre saying boss. thanks man!
btw, is CJ comp jet?
Comp Jet.... Sometimes Crappy Jet... LOL Yes, it is the designation for the class of racing... You should look up JS... (Jersey Skiff) Those fukkers are nuts...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJua_KO889U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJua_KO889U)
GT
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Morepower I was just woundering where you got your carb from I will be replacing that soon as well. If it is a valve knock I will for sure be taking your suggestion to take them to clay smith if it is a valve knock instead of a rod.
As for gas tanks is summit also a good place or is there a better place to look
I had an olds an sucked a valve as I mentioned in earlier post and it made a mad tap/knock. Pull your valve covers and look to see which isnt moving.
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Comp Jet.... Sometimes Crappy Jet... LOL Yes, it is the designation for the class of racing... You should look up JS... (Jersey Skiff) Those fukkers are nuts...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJua_KO889U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJua_KO889U)
GT
lol....holy chit!!
that thing spent almost the same amount of time out of the water as in....reminded me of my yamaha superjet before adding aftermarket ride plate. i think spoke out loud when his steering wheel came off :o
sorry.....back on topic...
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I had an olds an sucked a valve as I mentioned in earlier post and it made a mad tap/knock. Pull your valve covers and look to see which isnt moving.
So before I pull the whole motor I should crank it over with plugs disconnected and covers removed? Or is there thee another way of doing it?
Saturday can't come fast enough. Going to pull logs and check all the lines as well. Any suggestions on plugs filter and oil to use next?
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Look at all your valve stems with covers off. If its a sucked valve, it will be pretty obvious( it will be lower and will not move). If thats your problem...pull the head with a quick valve job...back on the water if your piston isnt to bad(mine was okay/real light surface marks). Napa gold or wix filter an 20/50 vr1 racing. Its been awhile on plug reference but a stock type plug at 35/37 gap.
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Gotta pray to the boat gods that's all it is.
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Well I'll admit it I'm over my head to do this myself. I can't risk fucking it up
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Itd already fukrd up jump in n find your problem
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Anyone know the head bolt removal pattern can't find online
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Does not matter how or in what order you remove them in.
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Found a spec on toghtnimg so just removed the same
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Got this awesome old timer helping us here's some pics
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Any help on disconnecting the jet from motor?
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lift with the hoist and just push forward ujoint spline will slide out, no unbolting
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So I can keep the bellhouse connected? Or unbolt it?
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Well it's out
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First time ever doing this gotta say learned a lot
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First time ever doing this gotta say learned a lot
Must have been because of the "Old Timer"........
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So the bearing is shot crank groves all in it. The holes for the oil where not inline. So now the crank has to come out.
The person who built this motor knows they messed up and doesn't want to cover the cost to fix it. Made me a better mechanic and I learned a lot. Be nice if he stand begin his work and cover the cost of repairs.
So now it's order new pistons want to replace the old ones since it's open. get the crank machined new bearings so suggestions would be awesome maybe do roller rockers so I'm open to options
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That did not just groove it they spun!!!!
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X2 on spun bearing
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Oh yeah that's for sure
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How do the cylinder walls look? Bummer about the bearings and crank.
Same exact thing happened to my olds last year. What's your budget to get that baby back together?
Here's a pic of my bearings and rods, this was also on a "fresh rebuild".
Stay positive brother, I'll start getting a list together of everything I did with mine from ground up.
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Piston walls are perfect guess I caught it early enough.i don't want to go to crazy but since I'm this far in minus well do it right. I might just have to do transom headers since the logs are completely out.
It sucks it happen but now I can say I built it and that means a lot to me. Check it off the want to do list.
Appreciate all the info you could give morepower
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No worries man. I was in the same boat (pun intended) learned more about AMERICAN history building my olds then in high school lol.
That block needs to go Into the shop, as well as the heads. I will gladly help you out as much as possible man! Cam still good? Also, where is the motor at?
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It's way out in Lancaster at my buddies. Why do you say the heads and block need to go in?
Havnt pulled the crank or cam yet just got home about 20 mins ago it's a 2 hour drive out into the desert but it's awesome.
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Watch out for the speed traps on the 14 fwy. I used to commute from the valley to Ave G. Even if everyone else is going 90, those cops will find you.
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Damn I was doin 80 whole way back 14 to 5 to 405 to 118 to 23 to 101 but I wasn't towing the boat left it out there.
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Does this look odd to anyone?
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This ass well
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I use a oil accumulator on all my engines in case of a break in the oil supply and have a low pressure switch with a big red light to warn me just in case of a potiental failure.
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Does this look odd to anyone?
Negative. Doesn't look off to me... Definitely had a good seal around the water jackets.
The reason I say the motor needs to go into a shop. 1) needs a line hone after those bearings went round and round, 2) with that metal inside the motor now, it needs to get flushed/cleaned. 3) this is what's gonna make or break a long lasting motor.
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Damn back to square one wish we hadn't spent that money first time around.
Any places you can suggest to take the block? I'll take the heads to clay smith like you said.
I have the rest of this season as winter to finish it so slow and steady it is. I want to just do the pistons now since it's all open and are roller rockers worth the penny?
Oh and good place to get carpet gonna do that now since it's all apart.
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If you're gonna take the heads to clay smith. You will be in great hands. He will take care of you for the entire build process. I'm glad you aren't gonna rush it. You will be satisfied in the long run.
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Yes another olds guy.
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Roller rocker are only forth it if you do everything else
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Roller rocker are only forth it if you do everything else
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Roller rockers are easier on the valve stem and improve valve train geometry... Roller "tipped" rockers are only worth it if you don't do everything else... LOL
There are roller rockers, then there are wannabe roller tipped steelies...
GT
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Very true!
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X2 on clay smith. George is an awesome guy. Knows alotttt about olds motors and jet boats. Go to him for all the machine work and you wont be disappointed.
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What's he like cost wise?
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All depends what you end up needing. Good machine work isn't cheap and cheap machine work isn't good. Your best bet, grab the block, crank, cam and heads and head over there and see what he says
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Definitely the builders fault. Shame he's not jumping up and taking care of this. I'd say you should blast him on here. You and me know who he is but might wanna warn other fellow members. He only cost me 100 bucks in gas money and about 6hrs of time...your call dude.
Stupid move...shouldn't have done that!
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So I can take it this was not caused by over heating? This was caused by bad machining or improper installation?
This motor ran for less than an hour I might even bet 30
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I would have to say it's the assemblers fault for not measuring tolerances , not caring tolerances are out of spec or just a sloppy assembly
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So I can take it this was not caused by over heating? This was caused by bad machining or improper installation?
This motor ran for less than an hour I might even bet 30
Put him on blast brother!!! Fellow members need to know.
I'll add to your story.
Stupid move...shouldn't have done that!
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This is the one and only time I will post on this topic and after that you will not hear a single word, I do not need to defend myself.
Let me start off by saying, that yes, it does suck that Ken’s motor went south, but before you begin passing judgement on me the builder (Don’t need anyone to blast me GENERAL LEE - as a matter of fact you can scroll to the bottom of this post as I have addressed you)
You have to have ALL the facts in line.
First off, Ken you did not pay me $3800 for the motor to be rebuilt. The $3800 was the cost of removal of the engine and engine tear down for inspection, and the patch adams rebuild that you said is all you could afford. Cost was for heads that were poured and ported with new springs and retainers as well as oiling mods, intake manifold, scoop, high capacity oil pan, rebuild of the carburetor (which I told you was too small especially without proper tuning), oil re-locator, MSD coil, 10.2mm Taylor spark plug wires, all NEW stainless steel fasteners, new head bolts, clean up engine wiring mess, etc. You were on a budget and YOU decided that you did not have the additional funds to pay for machine work. My recommendation was to over bore the block, and install new pistons as well as resize the existing connecting rods with new botls. YOUR BUDGET could not afford block machine work, new pistons, and resizing the rods and new bolts, which would have added an additional $1000+ to the bill. The good news is I have a lot of this correspondence in text messages as I always kept you informed throughout the entire build.
Instead of proper machine work (which I recommended), block was hot tanked, new cam bearings were installed, and standard cylinder bores were honed. Crank was turned 20/20, new main/rod bearings were installed, new piston rings, cam, timing chain, and new high flow oil pump.
Additionally, I insisted on numerous occasions to go out with you free of charge and tune your motor and each and every time you declined.
Throughout this process, I indicated that your gauges were reading improperly and that you needed to re-do the Mickey mouse wiring (first time I have ever seen a fuel pump grounded to a tach gauge) in which you once again indicated that you did not have the money. Then I indicated that your single bow mount fiberglass tank was delaminated and could be detrimental to the motor, that you would need to replace the tank, you again indicated NO MONEY. Additionally, I told you that you MUST do an oil change, especially after the motor had undergone the break in process, and you clearly didn’t have the funds to do the $60 oil change yourself. You could not follow a simple direction. The fram oil filter that I mounted is clearly visible in all of your break down photos.
How do you expect me to warranty internal engine items that were never machined or replaced??
Prior to you coming to pick up the boat, the cam was broken in for at least a half an hour and it was running like a champ. I have the video which I sent you to prove it. When you came the next time with your battery selector switch problem, we also ran the boat for at least a half an hour to re-charge the batteries. Then when we both went to the lake that Saturday, you spent the entire day on the lake, blasting around all over (picture below look familiar). We will count that for at least four hours, in which we spent half hour at the dock when I jumped your boat, because again you were reluctant to change the original 35 amp alternator which did not have the capacity to charge your dual batteries.
The preceding weekend you took the boat out in the morning, and only notified me of any problems at 2:30 PM. We will count 3 running engine hours for that outing. So right here, we have at least 8 hours...all on the original start up oil!!!
At that time you stated that the motor had lost oil pressure. You then said that you went and “putted it around” because you thought that your gauges were mis reading as you also noticed that the fuel gauge was not reading either. I asked you a series of questions relating to temperature, sounds, etc, in which I did not hear an answer back until almost 3 hours later when you sent me a video of the motor knocking. You indicated that you “limped” the boat back to the dock with the motor running in foul condition. I immediately came over to your house and assessed the situation. A quick over view of the motor showed evidence of a major overheat... Burnt exhaust ports, blued head bolts, collapsed exhaust hose... This led me to open the jet clean out where we found tangled up clumps of lake grass and fishing line which tied in with when you were saying that the boat would not rev and seemed stressed (no propulsion = no cooling water).
So this is what I concluded: oil got extra hot, got thinned out, oil pressure vanished, and damaged the bearings and the non- resized connecting rods did not help. When I was at your house, you understood this, but decided that at 3AM (when you to started texting me) to go through the denial phase, and began researching improper plumbing, when that clearly is not the issue. You offered up to me why my plumbing was wrong with the most ludicrous explanations. Sometimes we have to learn from our own mistakes, and I hope that it works out for you and that your motor comes together nicely with your own hands, Just a simple tip: don’t cheap out on yourself this time and do the correct machine work - you will soon see, it’s not as easy as it all looks!. I am even willing to give you another crank and some extra connecting rods free of charge as I know that you will need them.
Also just a friendly note: More Power is very knowledgable and knows his shit, wanna know why? because I tutored him about Olds 455 all the while that he was building his motor.
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On to the next topic...
Hey General Lee, or Bozo was your name, right? ...I don’t remember. You are an instigator (you may need to google that). You don’t know the first thing about building an engine, so your input about what the issue is means nothing.
I recall the time you are referring to as it is the only interaction I have ever had with you. I told to you to come pick up your steering cable on a Saturday before 12. You texted me that you were in Downey at 3PM. I was no longer at the shop and honestly had enough of your shenanigans as prior in the week you were stroking me about my Jacuzzi WJ diverter, Which only ended with “my wife won’t let me”. I also heard through the grape-vine (since the jet boat community is so small) that I was not the only one that you stroked and promising to buy their parts and fell through.
There, I did the work for you, no need to add to the story, but please explain to me one thing. How do you get a waste of $100 fuel when you live in Temecula and my shop is in Sylmar and Google maps says that we are 105 miles door to door and you only ended up in Downey. Not to mention only 1h45min drive time one way...
I smell some embellishment...
You should remove the rest of the words from your signature and just leave “stupid”, it would be a perfect signature for you... just saying...and a lot of people wouldn’t have to be confused.
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Sent from my iPhone using SoCalJetBoats
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This is the one and only time I will post on this topic and after that you will not hear a single word, I do not need to defend myself.
Let me start off by saying, that yes, it does suck that Ken’s motor went south, but before you begin passing judgement on me the builder (Don’t need anyone to blast me GENERAL LEE - as a matter of fact you can scroll to the bottom of this post as I have addressed you)
You have to have ALL the facts in line.
First off, Ken you did not pay me $3800 for the motor to be rebuilt. The $3800 was the cost of removal of the engine and engine tear down for inspection, and the patch adams rebuild that you said is all you could afford. Cost was for heads that were poured and ported with new springs and retainers as well as oiling mods, intake manifold, scoop, high capacity oil pan, rebuild of the carburetor (which I told you was too small especially without proper tuning), oil re-locator, MSD coil, 10.2mm Taylor spark plug wires, all NEW stainless steel fasteners, new head bolts, clean up engine wiring mess, etc. You were on a budget and YOU decided that you did not have the additional funds to pay for machine work. My recommendation was to over bore the block, and install new pistons as well as resize the existing connecting rods with new botls. YOUR BUDGET could not afford block machine work, new pistons, and resizing the rods and new bolts, which would have added an additional $1000+ to the bill. The good news is I have a lot of this correspondence in text messages as I always kept you informed throughout the entire build.
Instead of proper machine work (which I recommended), block was hot tanked, new cam bearings were installed, and standard cylinder bores were honed. Crank was turned 20/20, new main/rod bearings were installed, new piston rings, cam, timing chain, and new high flow oil pump.
Additionally, I insisted on numerous occasions to go out with you free of charge and tune your motor and each and every time you declined.
Throughout this process, I indicated that your gauges were reading improperly and that you needed to re-do the Mickey mouse wiring (first time I have ever seen a fuel pump grounded to a tach gauge) in which you once again indicated that you did not have the money. Then I indicated that your single bow mount fiberglass tank was delaminated and could be detrimental to the motor, that you would need to replace the tank, you again indicated NO MONEY. Additionally, I told you that you MUST do an oil change, especially after the motor had undergone the break in process, and you clearly didn’t have the funds to do the $60 oil change yourself. You could not follow a simple direction. The fram oil filter that I mounted is clearly visible in all of your break down photos.
How do you expect me to warranty internal engine items that were never machined or replaced??
Prior to you coming to pick up the boat, the cam was broken in for at least a half an hour and it was running like a champ. I have the video which I sent you to prove it. When you came the next time with your battery selector switch problem, we also ran the boat for at least a half an hour to re-charge the batteries. Then when we both went to the lake that Saturday, you spent the entire day on the lake, blasting around all over (picture below look familiar). We will count that for at least four hours, in which we spent half hour at the dock when I jumped your boat, because again you were reluctant to change the original 35 amp alternator which did not have the capacity to charge your dual batteries.
The preceding weekend you took the boat out in the morning, and only notified me of any problems at 2:30 PM. We will count 3 running engine hours for that outing. So right here, we have at least 8 hours...all on the original start up oil!!!
At that time you stated that the motor had lost oil pressure. You then said that you went and “putted it around” because you thought that your gauges were mis reading as you also noticed that the fuel gauge was not reading either. I asked you a series of questions relating to temperature, sounds, etc, in which I did not hear an answer back until almost 3 hours later when you sent me a video of the motor knocking. You indicated that you “limped” the boat back to the dock with the motor running in foul condition. I immediately came over to your house and assessed the situation. A quick over view of the motor showed evidence of a major overheat... Burnt exhaust ports, blued head bolts, collapsed exhaust hose... This led me to open the jet clean out where we found tangled up clumps of lake grass and fishing line which tied in with when you were saying that the boat would not rev and seemed stressed (no propulsion = no cooling water).
So this is what I concluded: oil got extra hot, got thinned out, oil pressure vanished, and damaged the bearings and the non- resized connecting rods did not help. When I was at your house, you understood this, but decided that at 3AM (when you to started texting me) to go through the denial phase, and began researching improper plumbing, when that clearly is not the issue. You offered up to me why my plumbing was wrong with the most ludicrous explanations. Sometimes we have to learn from our own mistakes, and I hope that it works out for you and that your motor comes together nicely with your own hands, Just a simple tip: don’t cheap out on yourself this time and do the correct machine work - you will soon see, it’s not as easy as it all looks!. I am even willing to give you another crank and some extra connecting rods free of charge as I know that you will need them.
Also just a friendly note: More Power is very knowledgable and knows his shit, wanna know why? because I tutored him about Olds 455 all the while that he was building his motor.
This right here is one reason I no longer own a boat shop... :-\
Very professionally handled in my humble opinion.
I have no dog in this fight either way, that being said, it sounds like you got exactly what you "could" pay for....
The set up is likely the cause of the issues and more than probable that these issues were there before the engine ever even ran.
Good luck getting her back together.
GT
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Since I'm off to work right now I will let this sit tell I get home.
I guess turn key like you said isn't what it means.
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On to the next topic...
Hey General Lee, or Bozo was your name, right? ...I don’t remember. You are an instigator (you may need to google that). You don’t know the first thing about building an engine, so your input about what the issue is means nothing.
I recall the time you are referring to as it is the only interaction I have ever had with you. I told to you to come pick up your steering cable on a Saturday before 12. You texted me that you were in Downey at 3PM. I was no longer at the shop and honestly had enough of your shenanigans as prior in the week you were stroking me about my Jacuzzi WJ diverter, Which only ended with “my wife won’t let me”. I also heard through the grape-vine (since the jet boat community is so small) that I was not the only one that you stroked and promising to buy their parts and fell through.
There, I did the work for you, no need to add to the story, but please explain to me one thing. How do you get a waste of $100 fuel when you live in Temecula and my shop is in Sylmar and Google maps says that we are 105 miles door to door and you only ended up in Downey. Not to mention only 1h45min drive time one way...
I smell some embellishment...
You should remove the rest of the words from your signature and just leave “stupid”, it would be a perfect signature for you... just saying...and a lot of people wouldn’t have to be confused.
And I smell bull sh×t on your story regarding our one time encounter over the phone. I texted you at 10am telling you I was on my way and you told me you were busy with another members boat and you'd let me know when you will be done. I texted you again at 3pm and you never replied.
Regarding your diverter, I simply said I'd talk to the wife, I never committed to buying it. Please you know how many times other members flaked on buying my parts. You don't see me crying about it.
But let's not highjack this thread petty nonsense you got bigger fish to fry then this.
Stupid move...shouldn't have done that!
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Like my old intake manifold and valve covers back since I never said keep them. I'll have more time once I'm off to go over everything.
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Like my old intake manifold and valve covers back since I never said keep them. I'll have more time once I'm off to go over everything.
I wasn’t planning on responding, but need to address your desire for “valve covers and intake manifold” back.
I have ABSOLUTELY NO DESIRE to play ping pong with you or any of your cheerleaders.
You know damn well that the agreement was your valve covers/ intake manifold were to be used essentially as a core which was factored into the price (trade plus money on top) considering your parts were less then desirable for a jet boat. All of a sudden you are asking for them back when engine was completed at the end of May. Almost three months have gone by and this is the first I am hearing about this. Way to be petty and downright dishonest...
Additionally, since I am already writing I’ll address your “turn key” comment.
I have a video of your engine running, and running well. If you look at my previous post, I believe that is a picture of you and your boat on the water when you turned the key and it started and got you all around the lake. Not to mention others that were on the lake and saw you out all day...
Turn Key does not indicate that since your engine is good that you can neglect everything else around it. There are other things that factor into how well an engine runs/performs and most importantly - longevity. If your gauges are not working, and your engine overheats in turn causing you to spin a bearing, that is neglect on your behalf. Just one factor surrounding what could have happened. I told you to do an oil change, which you neglected...the SIMPLEST thing you DID NOT EVEN DO to ensure your engines longevity!!!
The bottom line is YOU DIDNT HAVE THE FUNDS to ensure that everything worked hand in hand together.
Here is an example for you: A mechanic builds a car engine, and everything is new and runs great. The radiator busts while driving, and you figure, “well the mechanic told me that the engine is turn key, so Ill keep driving it and ill get to the radiator when I get to it.”
The motor overheats causing internal engine damage. Whose fault is it? The mechanic or the driver? Does this situation sound familiar?
Finally, you asked a few weeks ago for me not to text you and take it to the forums if I had anything additional to say, I did it. Now I am asking you, if you have anything additional to say, take it to court. We can hash it out there.
Any rebuttals to any of my points are unnecessary as they will not receive an additional response. Save your energy and time.
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I'm not even asking you for anything never even named you and once again you get angry an go straight to name calling.
The boat did run after I had to figure out why it wouldn't start and it didn't start when I picked it up.
I'll just start a rebuild thread let this die. Once again unhelpful, and upset you can't lie to me and take my money.
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Never texted you at 3am never would do that it was at 10 and 620 the next morning.
You got my text at 230 because that's when I got reception. I have 15 plus people who know it broke down first thing in the morning.
Yes it was on the water after you claimed bad alt wich I have checked it's fine and not a 35 amp like you say. You had no clue why it wouldn't start.
Gauges work fine tested them have no problem with them.
You told me an oil change was done after cam break in didn't realize oil on a non run motor should be changed.
I was quoted by you 2500 to get it running. 3800 later you made it pretty and reusing wires and just cutting a bunch off and tickling away is not a rewire in my eyes.
If you knew the amout I could afford would cause a motor to work hand in hand why take my money and build something you knew would fail.
I never keep driving the boat when hot only happened at idle. If a mechanic built a motor installed it all including cooling and for whatever reason the motor failed without a bad radiator they would tell you bring it back and they will look at it.
I told you to do what needed to be done to the heads and block after you flip flopped from mine to another's .
The tank could not cause the motor to blow on less than 1 actually on the water run time as the pic you posted was at idle what does that show.
The fact you never wanted to do paper work and got upset when I'd bring it should have been a red flag.
After reading more I realized oil pressure will change so as far as oil pressure dropping I was mistaken on that my bad.
You give props to morepower but sure had no problem telling me my motor is way better and he didn't know what he was doing that's why he had to break it open 4 times.
If when you stopped by the night the motor broke( happened to be in the area he wouldn't come by for free) you talked shit on how I broke it an the clogged pump one small sting of line and a 6 inch stran of grass blew the motor come on.
You bitched about how you would have to pull the motor and break it open and rattled off a 2500+ price tag to fix it you never just said bring it by let's figure it out all you saw was dollar signs.
What's court gonna do? You covere your ass with no papper work. I've wasted enough time and money with you.
You only jumped into this thread when you thought I'd bash you with I never did so all te name calling is sad on your part.
Good luck with life I'm done
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This is such a screwed up situation that will never get resolved. Bummer for both parties.
Not trying to defend myself (okay maybe I am) since my name has been dropped in this thread a few times.... I do want to say a few things. Of course I didn't know what I was doing. Phil gave me good advice, that I've been very thankful for. But in the end, MY motor that was built by ME, in MY garage, Well it's still running strong (anyone that has been out to the river with me will vouch) and it has zero issues... So before anyone wants to try and drag me through the dirt... I take pride in my work, if something goes wrong with my motor, it's nobody's fault but mine.... Also in case i forgot, I have over 15 solid hours on the first engine I've built and still no problems....
Phil, you are a solid dude that I'd trust build an olds for me any day. And wish you the best of luck.
And Handi-crack, I'll still help you out wherever and however I can. I'm far from a guru but I'm always here to help.
Good luck guys... But from here out let's leave me out of this, I have zero interest in dealing with this Business deal...
Sent with my Fingers