460 build

« **on:** April 05, 2016, 08:47:39 AM »

I'm working on putting a rebuild motor back together for the season and want to throw the correct cam in it. I was looking at comp camp off of cp performance. (http://www.cpperformance.com/p-11679-comp-cams-cam-lifter-kit.aspx)

Not looking for huge power just like to cruise most of the time.

Any ideas other than this or some input on whether it's a good can or not?

Thanks

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« **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2016, 08:50:37 AM »

that should make some good torque for you.

a ford expert will be along shortly

« **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2016, 10:39:15 AM »

Quote from: 77Galaxie on April 05, 2016, 08:47:39 AM

I'm working on putting a rebuild motor back together for the season and want to throw the correct cam in it. I was looking at comp camp off of cp performance. (http://www.cpperformance.com/p-11679-comp-cams-cam-lifter-kit.aspx)

Not looking for huge power just like to cruise most of the time.

Any ideas other than this or some input on whether it's a good can or not?

Thanks

For an essentially stock spec 460 rebuild that is to be used in the typical jet boat application, that would be a decent go-to camshaft. Be sure to install it at a 108* intake centerline rather than the later 112* ICL that many timing chains might establish.

« **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2016, 12:32:47 PM »

Thanks for the replies. I'm also looking here around town at our local shops that grind their own cams. I talked to the main man over here at Clay Smith Cams.

http://www.claysmithcams.com/h-280-8-bhl-hydraulic-flat-tappet-camshaft/

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« **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2016, 01:14:53 PM »

Quote from: 77Galaxie on April 05, 2016, 12:32:47 PM

Thanks for the replies. I'm also looking here around town at our local shops that grind their own cams. I talked to the main man over here at Clay Smith Cams.

http://www.claysmithcams.com/h-280-8-bhl-hydraulic-flat-tappet-camshaft/

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the webpage in the link you provided (or how the cam grind might be handled via your phone call), but the possibility of configuring a camshaft directly from that webpage and which would be considered truly "customized" leaves a lot to be desired in the majority of jet boat engine builds and applications. Also, relative to your (presumed) OEM rebuild the heads will require machining of the valve guides in order to accommodate a camshaft with that much valve lift. Overall the shelf cam from Comp (in your first link) is better suited thus far; even if it is smaller the overall profiling is much better, generally speaking.

Now if your engine is going to be rebuilt to specifications other than OEM and you're willing to get that extra head machining done (it isn't costly at all) then you can certainly go bigger. Even under those circumstances it's not likely I'd go with what I saw in your most recent link; a direct phone call to the grinder would be the way to go. That being said, I rarely, rarely see custom cam grinds for iron headed 460 powered jet boats that I feel are ideally suited for the customer's (and engine's) needs. ..sorry but it's true.

We can profile and deliver a superbly suited custom cam and lifter set for a 460 powered jet boat if you feel like shopping around. Just do your shopping first, then call us. If I feel that you've already been provided with a profile that will suit your particular build then I'll advise you to buy it. If not, then I can sell you one.

« **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2016, 01:44:48 PM »

Let me double check the specs on my engine. When I talked to him at his shop I talk him the pump I'm running with the impeller as well as what headers I run (logs) and with that he gave me that info. Now I don't know much about this stuff yet but it sounded to me like he knew what he was talking about.

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« **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2016, 08:23:25 AM »

As I'm tearing down my boat we can across this when we pulled the timing cover off. You can see that "o" is facing straight down to the keyway of the cam gear and the "o" on the crank gear it off set 1 tooth I believe retard. Any ideas why this could be I've been doing some research and people were saying it was set this way because of compliance. Any ideas?
Thanks!

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« **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2016, 10:29:41 AM »

Is this the first time the engine has been opened, assuming it was running like that? Looks to be 8-degrees (if I'm counting teeth right) retarded.

Possibilities:

If an aftermarket cam, that's where it degreed in (unlikely).

I have received timing sets that have been mismarked or not marked at all. Maybe the installer degreed the cam and discovered this and compensated without remarking the gears (also unlikely).

I'm betting that it was installed on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon or right before or after lunch or some time when the installer's mind wasn't on doing a good job.

Anyway, I have been curious about playing with cam timing. Retarding cam timing is supposed to favor output at RPM above peak torque, but with a hit to output everywhere else in the RPM range. That seems like it would be a good idea for (racing) a jet boat since it basically operates at one RPM, however I also think that cruise economy would suffer.

« **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2016, 01:34:11 PM »

Listen to lakes only he is hands down one of the most knowledgeable 460 engine guys around and a very cool guy. He will steer you in the right direction on your build.

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« **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2016, 02:58:33 PM »

Quote from: LakesOnly on April 05, 2016, 01:14:53 PM

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the webpage in the link you provided (or how the cam grind might be handled via your phone call), but the possibility of configuring a camshaft directly from that webpage and which would be considered truly "customized" leaves a lot to be desired in the majority of jet boat engine builds and applications. Also, relative to your (presumed) OEM rebuild the heads will require machining of the valve guides in order to accommodate a camshaft with that much valve lift. Overall the shelf cam from Comp (in your first link) is better suited thus far; even if it is smaller the overall profiling is much better, generally speaking.

Now if your engine is going to be rebuilt to specifications other than OEM and you're willing to get that extra head machining done (it isn't costly at all) then you can certainly go bigger. Even under those circumstances it's not likely I'd go with what I saw in your most recent link; a direct phone call to the grinder would be the way to go. That being said, I rarely, rarely see custom cam grinds for iron headed 460 powered jet boats that I feel are ideally suited for the customer's (and engine's) needs. ..sorry but it's true.

We can profile and deliver a superbly suited custom cam and lifter set for a 460 powered jet boat if you feel like shopping around. Just do your shopping first, then call us. If I feel that you've already been provided with a profile that will suit your particular build then I'll advise you to buy it. If not, then I can sell you one.

LakesOnly I went with that first cam from CP. You have any input on the marking on my motor??

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« **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2016, 09:20:47 AM »

Quote from: 77Galaxie on April 10, 2016, 08:23:25 AM

...we came across this when we pulled the timing cover off. You can see that "o" is facing straight down to the keyway of the cam gear and the "o" on the crank gear it off set 1 tooth I believe retard...Any ideas? Thanks!

That's the aftermarket retarded chain setup I said to watch out for, or at least phase correctly, when I stated:

Quote from: LakesOnly

Be sure to install it at a 108* intake centerline rather than the later 112* ICL that many timing chains might establish.

The timing chain should have 3 keyways in its lower gear. If not, then purchase one that does have at least 3 keyways. Then phase the cam back to the "straight up" position than the retard position as shown in the picture. (As marked, the crankshaft is actually advanced but the results are the same.)

« **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2016, 09:25:15 AM »

Quote from: 77Galaxie on April 10, 2016, 02:58:33 PM

LakesOnly I went with that first cam from CP.

The first cam as linked in the very first post is essentially a small step up from the factory Marine 460 cam. It would work well in an otherwise bone stock engine that is prepared with attention to detail (ie, zero deck the block, bowl blend the heads, good valve job, properly phased camshaft, etc).

« **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2016, 10:14:00 AM »

Quote from: LakesOnly on April 11, 2016, 09:20:47 AM

That's the aftermarket retarded chain setup I said to watch out for, or at least phase correctly, when I stated:

The timing chain should have 3 keyways in its lower gear. If not, then purchase one that does have at least 3 keyways. Then phase the cam back to the "straight up" position than the retard position as shown in the picture. (As marked, the crankshaft is actually advanced but the results are the same.)

The lower gear DOES have 3 keyways in it. I have the gear shown in the previous picture as well as one with the keyway lining up with the "o". Is there a preference as to which one I should use? Also, stupid question but this is the first time doing this. What would be considered "straight up"?
Thank you for your help

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« **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2016, 10:21:04 AM »

Bump

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« **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2016, 11:28:58 AM »

Quote from: 77Galaxie on April 11, 2016, 10:14:00 AM

The lower gear DOES have 3 keyways in it. I have the gear shown in the previous picture as well as one with the keyway lining up with the "o". Is there a preference as to which one I should use? Also, stupid question but this is the first time doing this. What would be considered "straight up"?
Thank you for your help

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The cam NEEDS to be degree'd in to know exactly where your Intake Center Line is (ICL). Paul recommends 108*. The only way to be at 108* is to degree it. Guessing at it is just wrong.

Machining inaccuracies in the crank key, crank gear key, cam gear and cam, can be off as much as 4-5* total. That's why they ALL need to be degree'd in. Know for certain where its at.

Dan'l

« **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2016, 09:32:48 AM »

Quote from: 77Galaxie on April 11, 2016, 10:14:00 AM

The lower gear DOES have 3 keyways in it. I have the gear shown in the previous picture as well as one with the keyway lining up with the "o". Is there a preference as to which one I should use? Also, stupid question but this is the first time doing this. What would be considered "straight up"?
Thank you for your help

The pre-1972 "straight-up" position would be that which has the keyway and the stamped character lined up exactly beneath the peak of a tooth. The other choices are offset one way or the other.

One can never be too sure from a photograph, but for the gear pictured the orientation in question appears to be the one stamped with a circle, not the rectangle or triangle.

77Galaxie

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