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83miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
460 mixing water with oil???
« on: July 14, 2008, 06:07:46 PM »
Hello, I have recently purchased a 1983 Miller with a 460 and a berkeley jet. This past weekend we had it out for the first time and had some issues. While we were on the water, the main issue was taking on water through a leak somewhere in the jet. I believe the water was all coming in through the packing gland. I called berkeley today to order all the parts to rebuild that section of the jet and the tech support guy that i talked to talked me out of buying the parts. He said to tighten those two bolts a full turn and put it back in the water. Well i tightened them but unfortunately a have not been able to get back to the water to test that issue. Now that we are home i checked the oil and it is very milky and now i am concerned that this is a very bad sign. I am not sure if having 6+ inches of water in the rear of the boat could be the cause of the milky oil. I would think not because i would think that oil would have also leaked out and that is not the case. I did check the oil before we bought it and also before going to the lake and it was not milky at all.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Colby
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2008, 06:26:58 PM »
Is there any kind of valve between the jet pump and motor? You could be over pressurizing (Sp?) your motor, causing gaskets to fail.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2008, 07:11:52 PM »
Stupid question #1, is the oil level any higher than it was when you first checked it?

 Reason #1, Oil is heavier than water and there is a chance the water could have been in there before due to water in the bilge area during storage. If the water level got above the crankshaft seals it would easily enter the crankase. The oil would not have "mixed" until the engine ran.

Stupid queston #2, Did the engine ever warm up?

Reason #2, If the engine never heated up and there was a lot of condensation in the engine due to storage, this could contaminate the oil enough to cause the "Banana Milkshake".
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2008, 08:05:04 PM »
83 ,there cou;d be a "multitude" of reasons for the mikly oil , not the least of  ... did you run the motor on the "hose" before you went to the lake ? ' if you said I missed it , does your boat have thru hull exausts, 4 tube headers or OT pipes ? if thru hulls are you missing flappers? if headers how are they plumbed (don't be shypost up ) Like GT says did the simply "milk" or did the oil level actually increase (critical) any nrecent wotk to the boat ? like any investigation the more info you provide even if seemingly insignificant is important Tom

BTW the water in the bilge would have to be above the bottom of the crank to backfeed into the crankcase
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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2008, 08:23:28 PM »
Yea, what those guys said  ;D

And welcome to the site  :D
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

83miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2008, 08:33:36 PM »
GT, (1)the oil level is not much higher than when i first checked it. If any at all it would have to be a very small amount higher. (2)the engine did get time to warm up as we did about 6 hours on the lake that day ranging from cruising at 3000 rpm's to running pretty good @ 5000 rpm's.

Jet boat performance, Yes i did run the boat on the hose before we went to the lake. I have thru hull exhaust and brand new flappers were installed before the trip. The exhaust is bassically under water at idle/float but with that much pressure coming out i would never emagine that water could make its way in. There has not been any recent work on the boat.

Do you think that 6-8 inches of water would be enough to be above the bottom of the crank? At first i thought maybe i have a blown head gasket, but if I am not mistaken, with a blown head gasket I would have bad compression on at least one cylinder and the motor would sound as if it were missing right?

Now that i know i need to change my oil, i think i need to pull my motor to drain the oil. Correct me if I am wrong, but it does not look as if my boat has one of the oil drain tubes installed.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2008, 09:05:56 PM »
If this boat engine (460) has an aluminum intake, I personally would start there, the first reason is that the aluminum intake manifolds, if not marine, have a tendency to corrode right at the front and rear water passage from the head to the manifold, reason 2 is the manifold is one of the easiest parts on a ford to remove and you can see the valley and inspect for cracks from freezing water in the block.

Before you do that, plug all the water inlets and outlets from the engine and apply a little bit of air pressure, no more than about 10 PSI, it should be able to hold it, you will know instantly if its leaking.

I'm betting on a leaky manifold to head gasket or possibly a cracked block (hope its the first).

Goodluck and keep us posted.....
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2008, 09:20:54 PM »
BTW Colby welcome to the fun ;D
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2008, 09:10:21 AM »
83 The reason I ask about "running on the hose" is that this scenario happens regularly .... A guy runs on the hose ,buttons things up goes to the lake has milky oil IF when it was run on the hose the water was EVER on with out the engine running the oil can "milk" (maybe not noticed till the lake) I actually have had folks fill up the crankcase while going back in for a Beer :banghead:

Other factors : too much cam ,duration at *50 spec above 235 to 240 can cause water/exaust "reversion" ,this will cause milk .

Cold running , Especially on a cool day moist air drawn thru the crankcase will "condense" in the upper reaches of the engine.

If this was mine I'd dump the oil and filter ,Mark the level (as the boat sets in the water) put a half hour on it and recheck ,may never happen again !
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2008, 06:15:14 PM »
My question is did you change the oil when you bought it?  Do you have anyway of telling how long that oil was in the engine if not? 

You may just have to do the oil change the old fashion way, drain it in the bottom of the boat and out the boat drain plug.  Flush the bottom of the boat with a mix of water and simple green and you're good to go.

I had an edelbrock torker on my last engine for 9 years, the corrosion is no issue on it from fresh water running.

Good luck
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83miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2008, 05:50:12 PM »
So maybe the oil didn't have as much water in it as i thought it did originally. I drained it all out today and put in a new filter, doing this process twice, the oil was never "milky" coming out. Not the first time and deffenately not the second time as that oil was only 15 min. old. So now with fresh oil and a fresh filter, i am hoping to get it back on the water soon, if not next weekend, for sure the following. Thanks to all for the replys and advice.
Colby
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 06:29:32 PM »
A little late but, I've got a "cheap trick" for ya', I have used this trick on houseboats for years, might help someone.

Get yourself an oil pump primer (you can also make one from an old distributor) index/mark the distibutor and pull it, install the oil pump primer and hook to a good 1/2" drill motor, pull the oil pres sending unit and install a 1/8" pipie nipple and attatch a hose to pump the oil into a bucket, fire off the drill and away goes the "black and nasty"(boy that doesn't sound right) O0. You can also use this method to "flush" water out of the oil if the boat sinks.

Hope it helps someone.
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

83miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 11:03:46 AM »
Just for a little update on this thread. After talking to a few people and them thinking it was from running on the garden hose, i changed the oil and filter three times to flush the system completly. I finally had a chance to get it back into the water yesterday. Ran it for about 6 hours with quite a few fast runs. Checked oil multiple times on the water and again when i got home. Oil still looks good as new and no "milky" residue. Thanks again for all that commented on this thread.
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Rodbender

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 460 mixing water with oil???
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2008, 03:59:03 PM »
Good to hear you are back up and running.

Another trick for dumping oil. Get a heavy trash bag and slide it under the pan as if you were going to bag the motor. open the plug and let her rip. When it is drained, you can slide out the bag with minimal mess, and some times none if you are good at it.
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Confusious Say "Man who walk around with hole in pocket, feel a little kocky all day"

 


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