ALT issue

« **on:** July 17, 2008, 09:37:23 PM »

I think that I am having a charging issue. I set the Kona up with two batteries the engine, electronics and jet a vator run off of one and the stereo off of the other. I have a battery selector between the two. I just went to the lake tonight and ran it for a while (1 hour) and the batteries died. I was running around with the switch on bat 1 and 2 to try to keep them both chargerd. I am running a stock ALT and think that I may need to upgrade??

What are you guys that are using two batts running for an alternator? Is stock good enough?? I have two brand new batteries (everstart marine)

Thanks,
Cole

« **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2008, 09:49:21 PM »

Quote from: KonaCole on July 17, 2008, 09:37:23 PM

I think that I am having a charging issue. I set the Kona up with two batteries the engine, electronics and jet a vator run off of one and the stereo off of the other. I have a battery selector between the two. I just went to the lake tonight and ran it for a while (1 hour) and the batteries died. I was running around with the switch on bat 1 and 2 to try to keep them both chargerd. I am running a stock ALT and think that I may need to upgrade??

What are you guys that are using two batts running for an alternator? Is stock good enough?? I have two brand new batteries (everstart marine)

Thanks,
Cole

Do you have an ammeter or a volt meter? I just have a regular old POS Delco and have two batteries, the only difference is I have a battery isolator and just a cut off switch for the back up battery, you have a problem, but need more info.

Is your alt. a one wire, or a three, I would have a hard time believing your boat used that much amperage in an hour, unless you can hear your stereo from friggen space

« **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2008, 10:00:17 PM »

Is your alt. a one wire, or a three, I would have a hard time believing your boat used that much amperage in an hour, unless you can hear your stereo from friggen space !!!

That was a good one

I was laughin' my a** off with that!

« **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2008, 10:03:42 PM »

Yeah, I run the same battery set up and can go at least 2 trips without switching to charge the radio battery. I run an 1100W amp from that battery also. That said it will recharge for another 2 trips with an hour or less on the alt... I have a 1 wire stock output alt. I am guessing that you will come back with a multi-wire alt, or you will go and test it with a volt meter and find that it is not working. It you have the Multi-wire some of them need a diode or small light in line to work properly. Mine had this when I got it, but I switched to the single wire anyways.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2008, 04:57:21 PM »

You can't charge both batteries at the same time without the above mentioned isolator. The stronger battery just ends up discharging into the weaker one and neither gets charged, the isolator keeps them as seperate circuits.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2008, 05:31:51 PM »

Quote from: gregb on July 18, 2008, 04:57:21 PM

You can't charge both batteries at the same time without the above mentioned isolator. The stronger battery just ends up discharging into the weaker one and neither gets charged, the isolator keeps them as seperate circuits.

I think this is incorrect, the batteries will be connected in parallel and should charge due to the voltage increase of the alt. (typically 14.5 VDC), the only reason to use an isolator is to charge both but control which battery gets drawn from.

You can literally charge two batteries but only draw from one with an isolator. When a switch (Perko type) is used in "1 and 2" both batteries are charging and being drawn from...so if one dies so does the other.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2008, 07:17:11 PM »

I worked in a parts store for a long time and people with motorhomes and a selector switch always had this issue if they tried to charge both, that's why they have the isolator (I sold a lot of those), it keeps the batteries seperate as they charge with a series of diodes. You use the switch to select which one to use for starting.

« **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2008, 07:45:04 PM »

Quote from: gregb on July 18, 2008, 07:17:11 PM

I worked in a parts store for a long time and people with motorhomes and a selector switch always had this issue if they tried to charge both, that's why they have the isolator (I sold a lot of those), it keeps the batteries seperate as they charge with a series of diodes. You use the switch to select which one to use for starting.

Which is exactly what I said

My motorhome has 6 batteries, two isolators and two battery switches, trust me I know what they do, BTW you actually lose a liitle bit of charging ability with an isolator, not much (about 5% depending on the quality of the isolator), its because of the inability of feedback amperage getting back to the alternator. About the only thing you need to be careful of is to use the same type of batteries (wet, gel, orbital) when charging together.
Still say, no matter what, you can charge two batteries with one alternator in parallel, if you couldn't, jump starting a car would be vertually impossible.

Also, just so you know my dad owned and operated an auto parts store and machine shop for 30+ years.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2008, 10:28:49 AM »

The alt has a large charge wire connected to the starter and a small (14 ga) wire connected to the terminal block on the rear of the engine. The small wire hooks up to one of two prongs on the alt. One will show about 15 or 16 volts on the guage and the other will show 13. I have it hooked up to the prong that shows 13. I do not have an isolator. I ran it at Clear Lake from 7/4 to 7/10 on "1 and 2" then the boat sat in the garage with the batteries off for a week then ran on "1 and 2" for an hour and they died. Then stereo is 1000 watts (nothing special).

« **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2008, 03:06:18 PM »

Quote from: KonaCole on July 19, 2008, 10:28:49 AM

The alt has a large charge wire connected to the starter and a small (14 ga) wire connected to the terminal block on the rear of the engine. The small wire hooks up to one of two prongs on the alt. One will show about 15 or 16 volts on the guage and the other will show 13. I have it hooked up to the prong that shows 13. I do not have an isolator. I ran it at Clear Lake from 7/4 to 7/10 on "1 and 2" then the boat sat in the garage with the batteries off for a week then ran on "1 and 2" for an hour and they died. Then stereo is 1000 watts (nothing special).

The little wire really does not need to be large, 14 ga. will do fine, the little wire goes to the two connector plug on the alternator and is the one on the right with the lock in the upper position, this is terminal #2 and is the "exiter" wire, you can literally just hook this wire up to the battery terminal or the "output" of the alternator and away you go, the other terminal or "term. #1 is for the indicator light which you probably dont have, this wire will not be used. With the engine running you should have at least 14VDC at idle unless the batteries are totally dead.

These alternators are extremely simple in there design and parts are super inexpensive, most auto parts stores have a "bench" checking machine and will test it for free if you bring it in.

Heres a crude ass drawing of the little connector, hope this helps, BTW do not hook the #2 terminal to the ignition, you will not be able to shut down the boat

« **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2008, 09:06:05 AM »

The ALT is toast, so will a 60 amp stocker be ok to replace it with?

Question about the isolator,

If I install an isolator, then is the battery selector switch I have pointless?

The way the batteries will be wired is stereo on one bat and engine / jet a vator off of the other. If I am correct, the isolator will charge both batts at the same time and never allow each batt to drain off the other, or the stereo to pull from the engine batt and vise versa.

If this is the case, Then I do not need the selector switch?

« **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2008, 05:00:35 PM »

They do make an isolating battery switch, seems like a waste of dough though, Just use the battery switch in the #1 position for the engine, and install your isolator normally, that way if your cranking battery gets low due to a proplem you have instant jumper cables by the flick of a switch

The nice thing about having the switch is you can turn off the power to the boat, if you do it this way you will need to install a second smaller circut breaker and switch from the "stereo" battery because you will need to hook the stereo right to the battery terminal (does that make any sense?).

« **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2008, 05:58:55 PM »

And oh yeah I forgot, a 60 amp alt. is more than enough, If its an open motor you can use an automotive unit, otherwise a marine unit would be required.....Safety first..

« **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:54:14 AM »

Quote from: GT Jets on July 30, 2008, 05:00:35 PM

They do make an isolating battery switch, seems like a waste of dough though, Just use the battery switch in the #1 position for the engine, and install your isolator normally, that way if your cranking battery gets low due to a proplem you have instant jumper cables by the flick of a switch

The nice thing about having the switch is you can turn off the power to the boat, if you do it this way you will need to install a second smaller circut breaker and switch from the "stereo" battery because you will need to hook the stereo right to the battery terminal (does that make any sense?).

That is exactly how i have the stereo wired. I am running the amps and the deck off the second battery and there is a toggle switch for the deck, so I can completly shut off the stereo.

So, if I install an isolator, do I run the ALT charge wire to the isolator and then tie the battery leads into the backside of the isolator? Currently the leads run up to the switch. I am trying to figure out how to make this all work properly.

Thanks

« **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2008, 07:46:31 AM »

Yeah, pretty much.

Leave the battery cables hooked up to the switch like they are now, heavy guage wire, 2 guage or better (numerically lower is larger).
Then all you need to do is run the charge wire from the alternator (the stud) to the "alt" post on the isolator, then from each battery go to the two "bat." studs on the isolator, one each obviously.
Then when you run the boat just make sure the battery switch stays in the #1 position.
To double check your wiring, just remoe one negative battery post at a time and see what's powered up.

Hopfully you don't have an ammeter, because these are a horrible way to go IMO, the charge circut would need to run from the alt. to the ammeter, back to the isolator then to each battery, thats like 40 uneccissary feet of wire at 30-60 amps., a little dangerous IMO again...Use a voltmeter.

Make sure you have a large ground wire to each battery to the engine block, and a large positive from each battery to #1 and #2 on the switch. I will try to draw a diagram at lunch but should be pretty straight forward.

As always good luck.
TTFN
GT

« **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2008, 08:21:18 AM »

Quote from: GT Jets on July 31, 2008, 07:46:31 AM

Yeah, pretty much.

Leave the battery cables hooked up to the switch like they are now, heavy guage wire, 2 guage or better (numerically lower is larger).
Then all you need to do is run the charge wire from the alternator (the stud) to the "alt" post on the isolator, then from each battery go to the two "bat." studs on the isolator, one each obviously.
Then when you run the boat just make sure the battery switch stays in the #1 position.
To double check your wiring, just remoe one negative battery post at a time and see what's powered up.

Hopfully you don't have an ammeter, because these are a horrible way to go IMO, the charge circut would need to run from the alt. to the ammeter, back to the isolator then to each battery, thats like 40 uneccissary feet of wire at 30-60 amps., a little dangerous IMO again...Use a voltmeter.

Make sure you have a large ground wire to each battery to the engine block, and a large positive from each battery to #1 and #2 on the switch. I will try to draw a diagram at lunch but should be pretty straight forward.

As always good luck.
TTFN
GT

Thanks,
I just looked at some diagrams and it set me straight. I will leave the Switch in, just in case I do kill the starter battery some how and it is already installed.

« **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2008, 11:56:53 AM »

I just picked up a new ALT and my old own doesn't have an interanal regulator. The wiring in the boat didn't have a regulator in the harness, so I bought an alt with an internal regulator. I need a regulator don't I?? and where do I hook up the small wire (purple wire in Hardin Marine Harness that goes to the guage)?

Thanks

« **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2008, 05:37:22 AM »

Quote from: GT Jets on July 30, 2008, 05:00:35 PM

They do make an isolating battery switch, seems like a waste of dough though, Just use the battery switch in the #1 position for the engine, and install your isolator normally, that way if your cranking battery gets low due to a proplem you have instant jumper cables by the flick of a switch

The nice thing about having the switch is you can turn off the power to the boat, if you do it this way you will need to install a second smaller circut breaker and switch from the "stereo" battery because you will need to hook the stereo right to the battery terminal (does that make any sense?).

That's exactly what I do.

Alt -> isolator -> both batteries

Bat 1 - Normal starting battery wired to battery switch then to engine. Switch stays on 1 normally
Bat 2 - Deep cycle battery with stereo directly wired to it.

Stereo can kill deep cycle, and the engine will still start and charge it back up. If bat #1 dies and I catch it before I drain #2, I can jump start myself.

KonaCole

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