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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
BBC Diagnosis
« on: August 13, 2010, 06:40:17 PM »
Makin a long story short...atleast attempt to:

Spent 6k+ (in april of this year) and had a 454 built after i grenaded the old one. Somehow after 5-7 river/elsinore trips I noticed my oil pressure dropping and i found myself adding 2 quarts on the spot. Put it on the trailer, had black exhaust/oil on the back of the boat and minor smoke out the oil fill cap at idle. Didnt notice any pinging or knocks, ripped the motor out and sent it back to where i had it built.

Stopped by his shop today, 2 pistons are toast and the other 6 have knicks and dings on the tops.
The crank, rods, cam, etc. are all ok according to him.

What he told me was my fuel lines (3/8") were too small and the fuel pump was big enough to keep up with motor. (kept it from the old motor which was a stock 454).

He also mentioned a possible vacuum leak near my carb.

I am far from a mechanic, but is it possible to cause all this damage by lack of fuel?

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88CARRERA

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 07:08:56 PM »
timing wrong hitting pistons
  • Boat #1: 88 carrera eclipse
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2010, 07:12:20 PM »
Makin a long story short...atleast attempt to:

Spent 6k+ (in april of this year) and had a 454 built after i grenaded the old one. Somehow after 5-7 river/elsinore trips I noticed my oil pressure dropping and i found myself adding 2 quarts on the spot. Put it on the trailer, had black exhaust/oil on the back of the boat and minor smoke out the oil fill cap at idle. Didnt notice any pinging or knocks, ripped the motor out and sent it back to where i had it built.

Stopped by his shop today, 2 pistons are toast and the other 6 have knicks and dings on the tops.
The crank, rods, cam, etc. are all ok according to him.

What he told me was my fuel lines (3/8") were too small and the fuel pump was big enough to keep up with motor. (kept it from the old motor which was a stock 454).

He also mentioned a possible vacuum leak near my carb.

I am far from a mechanic, but is it possible to cause all this damage by lack of fuel?




Get some high quality pictures......I call bullshit on the fuel line being too small.......I have proven 3/8" fuel line to be good for up to 500 HP without issue.

GT

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2010, 08:13:02 PM »

Get some high quality pictures......I call bullshit on the fuel line being too small.......I have proven 3/8" fuel line to be good for up to 500 HP without issue.

GT



X2, Not gonna go into detail on Moo, controversial subject, but rest assured, a bit more HP than that even, and after dissassembly, pistons, plugs, rings were perfect!

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 08:49:16 AM »
ill work on getting pictures. its all torn apart at his shop. He claims it had around 550 hp.
a timing issue could have done all that damage?? what is the recommended timing on a motor like that?

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lbhsbz

  • Karma: +29/-1
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2010, 09:20:03 PM »
Get some pictures up
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enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2010, 09:30:42 PM »
cam timing problem...NOT ign. timing....among other things too..post pics :)
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2010, 05:01:08 PM »
here is the damage.  :banghead:
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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2010, 05:02:33 PM »
few more of cam / heads
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2010, 06:13:21 PM »
Gonna say it out loud so I can regret it later......Lack of quench area. piston overheated, either too much piston to chamber clearance or wrong piston/head combo..

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

obnoxious001

  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2010, 06:43:28 PM »
Makin a long story short...atleast attempt to:

Spent 6k+ (in april of this year) and had a 454 built after i grenaded the old one. Somehow after 5-7 river/elsinore trips I noticed my oil pressure dropping and i found myself adding 2 quarts on the spot. Put it on the trailer, had black exhaust/oil on the back of the boat and minor smoke out the oil fill cap at idle. Didnt notice any pinging or knocks, ripped the motor out and sent it back to where i had it built.

Stopped by his shop today, 2 pistons are toast and the other 6 have knicks and dings on the tops.
The crank, rods, cam, etc. are all ok according to him.

What he told me was my fuel lines (3/8") were too small and the fuel pump was big enough to keep up with motor. (kept it from the old motor which was a stock 454).

He also mentioned a possible vacuum leak near my carb.

I am far from a mechanic, but is it possible to cause all this damage by lack of fuel?



A number of questions come to mind.  What was the static compression supposed to be?  How much ignition timing (total timing) were you running?  What fuel were you running? 

I don't think the 3/8" fuel line would be the issue, I recently dynoed a 468 Chevy at 606 HP,, with a 3/8" line.  I am using 1/2 fuel line on the 632 cu in engine that I have ready to go on the dyno now.

I think I can see marks indicating a piston was hitting the cylinder head, but would not make such a statement based only on these photos.  The deck height, combined with gasket thickness would equal the "quench" that GT mentioned. 

It's possible a number of factors combined to cause the problem.   If the compression was marginally high, and you ran some bad or cheap gas,, or 87 octane instead of 91 octane,, combined with a vacuum leak, etc etc.

Years ago I build a 9.2-1 compression engine for a friend's Suburban.  His kids drove it to the river admittedly at 120 mph at times,, towing a trailer.  When the engine temp was showing to be too warm, they continued to run,, (backed it down to 100 or so).  They not only burned a couple of pistons, but the block and head got torched, like a fuel dragster,, about 1/4" material gone.  I knew it had been tuned on a reputable chassis dyno, but also suspect the boys bumped the timing up looking for more power. 

Boats (particularly jet boats) get run hard, often for extended time periods at higher rpm than you normally run a street engine.
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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2010, 07:01:10 PM »
he said i was at 10:1 compression. im not sure the different types of compression there is. ie 'static compression'.

always ran 91 and i believe the station out in needles even had 93 oct.

as far as the timing, pretty sure it was 30*.

My next observation is why the motor didnt make a whole lot of noise while I last ran it. If 2 pistons are not firing and its not running right how could i have not noticed?

« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 08:45:00 PM by sportinwood »
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enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2010, 10:07:15 PM »
Messy.....You gotta start over....I don't see anything good  here...sorry :sly:
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2010, 07:41:23 AM »
next question: who should have to pay...we havent discussed this yet. if he wants me to pay i will most likely take whats left of my motor and go elsewhere.
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lbhsbz

  • Karma: +29/-1
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2010, 11:08:06 AM »
If the shop set up the carbs/timing/everything else so all you had to do was turn the key....and you didn't touch anything, then they're responsible.  If you took home the longblock and assembled the rest of it and tuned it yourself, I would say that you're responsible.  Improper bottom end assembly breaks pistons, it doens't burn the ring lands off of 'em. 
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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2010, 12:08:42 PM »
well, i took it home, installed motor and took it back to him to time/break in and make sure everything was working well.

first trip out i had problems with the distributor so i bought a new one and he set it and timed again.

so if he doesnt agree to fix it i guess ill be packin up and lookin elsewhere.  :-\
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lbhsbz

  • Karma: +29/-1
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2010, 12:47:20 PM »
If he set it up and tuned it...then I'd say it's on him. 
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sportinwood

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2010, 01:30:33 PM »
well thank you for everyones help and input. i will keep an update on how this all unfolds.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2010, 04:05:26 PM »
Is it just me, or am I seeing the insides of more and more motors lately?  :banghead:

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2010, 05:06:34 PM »
Funny part is that most of them ain't  Oldsmobiles   >:D   BWAH HAH HA HA HA

Summer is 2/3 gone and people have put a quite a few hard passes on stuff in some cases.  It does seem like there is a whole lot of shoddy assembly going on though.   Do your research people.    You all know that sage old advice about  Fast, Reliable, and Cheap right???
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

ROMPERSTOMPER

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2010, 03:19:25 PM »
Mines down too. WTF. gettin tired of it. sucked water. pump intake came loose . smashed the hell out of a push rod.vaccume pump was set too high.water and metal in the mains but not too bad. dam efi rev limiter was set a 7800. boat poped out and reved to 9500 in less than a second at that gawd awfull elsoner trip. just a ton of bad luck for a few of us. tryin to keep my head up and get back into it before the season is over. Been too depresed to put up my own thread and pics.
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If you aint first your last.

enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2010, 05:24:03 PM »
anyone look at the TEAM THREAD ANYMORE...I posted about this stuff :sly:
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2010, 05:39:45 PM »
Your a team member, most of us are not and do not have access to that  :beer:
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2010, 07:20:05 PM »
Your a team member, most of us are not and do not have access to that  :beer:

What I posted was:

I have noticed that 9 out of 10  people having their mills gone through on this site are having engine failure :thumbdown:
Two reasons:
1.  being cheap
2. Cutting corners,bad assy work,bad machine work,come back after come back :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
END RESULT DO IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:WTF

  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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propless

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: BBC Diagnosis
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2010, 12:21:51 AM »
.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:56:33 AM by propless »
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Welcome to the club of broken boats :o  Pay here$ bend over and move along.

 


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