Null


rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« on: July 19, 2017, 11:09:42 PM »
Hi there, I've been struggling with an oil pressure problem on my recently put together Rogers.The engine was originally built for a truck and had maybe 600 miles on it before I purchased it and was put together by a known builder who lined up the purchase for me.So , pulled the pan, installed now what I know as an Older Dooley 10 qt pan from what I've been told from Craig at Dooley. The pan does have a front windage tray built in with a trap door, but no rear tray, or scraper.Im using a mercruiser?Style pickup that is at 3/8 off the bottom of the pan. The oil pump is an m77 melling and I'm running Brad Penn 20/50 . Started out with 9 quarts of oil as recommended from GS marine . They said they run better with  9 instead of 10.
Here's the issue..............at start up I have 45/50 psi oil pressure, Once I idle out, and start to get up in the rpm range, say 4500/5000 after 10/20 seconds I lose oil pressure down to 20 psi, it would go lower if I stay in the throttle.As soonAs I let off throttle and let it idle the pressure goes up.I have a mechanical gauge and installed a second gauge to verify and they both read the same while running.Ive been to the lake 2 different times to test .the second was after I pulled the engine, and checked crank bearing and rod bearings , and even changed the pickup and reset height.One other note is that the gauge on my first test  would have fluctuations up and down, the needle would bounce a bit before the big pressure drop at higher Rpm.The second test I lowered the oil level by 1 quart and the fluctuation in the gauge went away .So could this all be windage and I need a new pan/pickup , crank scraper ?




Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 10:37:52 AM »
Wow, it really does seem that you have an oil pressure problem, I also have a BBC in my jet boat built by me, I too have a Dooley 10qt pan, but only use 9 qts. I run a Melling HV pump with a GM factory windage tray. I use Valvoline 20w-50 VR1 oil and upon start up there is 80psi and even when oil temp is 180* cruising at 3,000rpm I have around 60psi and 35 psi at 950 idle rpm. So I would have to say it’s an internal issue with a clearance problem or an early bleed off some ware. The Chevrolet engine’s oiling system is quite simple and reliable, there is no way 20psi is normal or acceptable. Over my years I’ve seen some weird things that could affect oil pressure, extremely worn out cam bearings is one of them, causing an early bleed off before oil gets to the mains and rod bearings. Oil pump issues with the spring or bypass valve, but that’s kinda rare, but look over that pump closely, mating surfaces too on that 5th main cap, torque specs and pick up. I really don’t feel you need any specialty items like a crank scraper, those items are above our performance level to see any gains, you have a legitimate problem that needs to be found before damage occurs. I’ve even seen an internal crack in a block that when it heats up and oil thins down the pressure would really drop, just a few ideas, but my honest opinion is that I’m thinking that engine needs to be looked into closely to find the culprit, perhaps get with your engine builder and discuss options.
  • Boat #1: 1986 18' Caribbean
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 07:05:55 AM »
Thank you 86caribbean for your advice. I've been trying to get to the bottom of this and it's been a tough one. I've asked many questions in regards to everything you have said minus the cracked block and have had all kinds of different opinions. You are right on.The engine builder suggested windage and assured me that the engines bearings, and oil pump were not my issue, and that is why I'm down this rabbit hole. Ill be pulling it back out  and having a set of trained eyes help me get to the bottom of it. Again Thank You , and as soon the culprit is found I will post it up.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

427 wilder

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 09:12:07 AM »
Worked for a shop years back. We built a BBC for a jet boat. 1/4" arm in it cam out to a 505 cid. I do not remember the oil pan brand, I do remember the windage tray was a Incorporated type ( into the pan ). We had the same issue. We could run it on the trailer and drop oil pressure. After the motor in and out of the boat pulling bearing caps...changing pumps looking for cracks in the block.......we changed the windage tray. Went to a factory Chevy 5 bolt position 4 main 1 at the oil pump. It fixed the issue. The factory wrapped around the oil pump pick up much better than the pan type. The only thing we could think of is as you bring the rpm up the windage became very bad and would push oil away from the pick up. I can only tell you what fixed that problem. Good luck

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 01:29:52 PM »
Add a MOROSO windage tray kit to the Dooley pan and run 9 quarts. Run the teflon coated flat tray. You may need to open up the hole for the dipstick to clear (I always seem to have issues)...

Your problem will go away... You will obviously need a tray bolt kit...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/23030/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710798528&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-58142372711:pla-208883391911&CATARGETID=230006180037474440&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwktHLBRDsARIsAFBSb6zZxuCErzywOsYN68a7ejIlzdeysjBgLlyigb6-StnJ_sWhHy0Vi_8aAo62EALw_wcB
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 09:23:47 PM »
Okay, Thankyou  for the info, I'll let you know what I find and what the fix is.  Would you recommend I go to an Hv oil pump? And or what brand? Thanks again


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 10:55:59 PM »
\Would you recommend I go to an Hv oil pump? And or what brand? Thanks again


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats


You are very welcome, and honestly, no on the HV pump unless you are running remote oil filters and a cooler.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 08:52:01 AM »
Is .028 - .030" of connecting rod side clearance excessive for a set of eagle rods?
 
502 block
Steel 427 crank
2 pc rear main adapter




Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 09:05:53 AM »
Is .028 - .030" of connecting rod side clearance excessive for a set of eagle rods?
 
502 block
Steel 427 crank
2 pc rear main adapter


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats


No, what is the bearing clearance? Which rods? H-beam, I-beam? material?

The tighter the side clearances the less oil can flow from the journal. On the other side, too much clearance can stress the wrist pin. A more important number is crank thrust clearance.

I have been known to move rods around on junkyard dogs to try and get the clearances so they match as close as possible to one another, but in the grand scheme of things, likely just picking the ripest banana...   :screwy:

I would say that .030" is pretty much spot on. Do you have any discolored rod ends? Why do you ask?

GT


  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 09:59:17 AM »
This is what I have


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 10:00:25 AM »
.028
.028
.030
.029


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 10:02:07 AM »
The reason I ask is that I'm still having an oil pressure drop at rpm


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 10:08:28 AM »
The reason I ask is that I'm still having an oil pressure drop at rpm


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats


What pan pick up is that? Throw that in the trash....

Get a full screen MOROSO, Hamburgers, Dooley, Canton. That stock POS is for a motor home or a truck.

You can get a round one with the full screen too...

I use either the Milodon one or the MOROSO rectangular one with the rounded end. They are silly cheap.

Just make sure the pan to pick-up clearance is close to 5/16".... No more than 3/8"...

GT

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 10:11:01 AM »
I also can't help but notice no windage tray.

What pan and do you have a picture of the insides?

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 10:32:11 AM »
Old dooley


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2017, 10:33:46 AM »
I had this pickup on it before I was told to switch to the current


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2017, 10:50:14 AM »
That pick up is better for large volumes of oil.

That pan has NO windage prevention. It needs a tray. I use the Teflon coated MOROSO, it works perfect in my second generation Dooley...

GT




  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2017, 06:25:26 PM »
Yep ordered one up, i was given a milodon windage tray but I'd have to modify it to get it to work. Here's a random question.....
Do you think it's possible to prime the engine using an 18volt Makita drill with the priming tool?  On my engine I could get about 40 pounds using the makita. A guy was at my shop and said something is wrong, there's no way that the little drill should be able to spin the oil pump . Meaning I have a major oil bleed off somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2017, 06:57:58 PM »
Yep ordered one up, i was given a milodon windage tray but I'd have to modify it to get it to work. Here's a random question.....
Do you think it's possible to prime the engine using an 18volt Makita drill with the priming tool?  On my engine I could get about 40 pounds using the makita. A guy was at my shop and said something is wrong, there's no way that the little drill should be able to spin the oil pump . Meaning I have a major oil bleed off somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

I use a 1/2" Milwaukee Fuel cordless and have no problem priming engines. Just did a small block last week and the gauge said 60PSI, the drill pulled down pretty hard, but had no problem spinning it......

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

el mojado

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2017, 08:28:35 AM »
Is installing the windage tray a simple deal? Just unbolt man caps and install tray? I have all the symptoms described. My engine only has 25 hours on it. This is the only issue I am having with it. My pick up screen is already tacked to the oil pump.

Sent from my SM-G930T using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
I once tried to NOT have a good time. It just didn't work out!

rustyclutch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2017, 09:41:49 PM »
I'm waiting on the Moroso tray at the moment. There's another thread that shows bypass valves on the BBC GEN V that has me thinking , talking about passages with tight 90 degree turns that can lower pressure? Anyways seems like a straight forward install.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2017, 11:00:30 PM »
Is installing the windage tray a simple deal? Just unbolt man caps and install tray? I have all the symptoms described. My engine only has 25 hours on it. This is the only issue I am having with it. My pick up screen is already tacked to the oil pump.

Sent from my SM-G930T using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app


The unfortunate part is you will need five extended main studs to mount the tray to.... So not really too straight forward, especially if your current studs are locked properly...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 11:01:18 PM »
I'm waiting on the Moroso tray at the moment. There's another thread that shows bypass valves on the BBC GEN V that has me thinking , talking about passages with tight 90 degree turns that can lower pressure? Anyways seems like a straight forward install.


Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats

It can, especially with foamy oil...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

S Bouchie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: BBC gen 5 oil pressure issue may be windage
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 07:47:47 AM »
I sent you a p/m with the ansure to your problem...or call me 661 209 2498 scott

Sent from my SM-G928V using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

 


Null

SMFPacks CMS 1.0.3 © 2026