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avengerdaycruiser

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BBF Build
« on: April 03, 2011, 08:57:11 PM »
I bought a used Dooley pan from a guy off PB and I got the pickup with it, other then it looks like he lost something through the bootom end and went through the pan and has been  patched up  :screwy: The problem is with the pickup or ME haha! The first pic is of the original pickup off the stock oil pump, the next is the pickup he sent me, not sure how or where this thing will go.



« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 07:20:39 PM by avengerdaycruiser »
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just squirtin

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2011, 09:57:25 PM »
did you get a windage tray with it-i have the same pan and the tube pickup bolts to the main cap-you need to have studded caps bolts
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 10:03:02 PM »
No windage tray, I think it might be a really old Dooley because it does not flare out at the bottom and there is no windage tray just two hinged trap doors on the bottom. Do you think the pickup is for a cobra jet oil pump? And where can I find studded cap bolts
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IRRebel

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 11:07:08 PM »
All Dooley pans have a windage tray, first.  Second, their pickup tube will only fit the Melling M84 or M84HV oil pump. The pickup tube YOU have is not a BBF unit for a Melling M84 unit. No idea what it is for, but not your engine, and the oil pump you have does not look like an M84 either..........Did you try and match up the pan? is it even CLOSE to fitting? For some reason, Chrysler looks VERY familiar with that pickup tube.
 ;)

Ray
 
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Ralph Brunt

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 06:16:09 AM »
that pick up is for a cj pump, i have the same one, you need the windage tray and new main bolts with the studds welded on for the tray.
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Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 09:30:18 PM »
You have one style of BBF oil pump in your engine (a Melling M84), and the Dooley pickup that you have is for a different
style of BBF oil pump for your engine (a Melling M84BHV-S).  You need to puchase the correct pump (M84BHV-S) for that
pickup tube.

Dooley has made pickup tubes for all three pickup mounting types that are available between all the 460 Ford oil pumps,
and while Dooley does offer a press-in pickup tube for the pump that is currently in your engine, you would be well
advised to get the pump for the bolt-on pickup that came with the new pan (between those two choices, the M84BHV-S
is a better choice than the M84).

Dooley can sell you the windage tray and main cap bolt hardware for that pan seperately.

Be sure to take the time to mock up the pickup tube and pump correctly during assembly.

LO
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 09:34:04 PM by LakesOnly »
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LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 09:56:55 PM »


And for christs sake ditch the shorty Fram filter!   :o

;)

LO
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HaulsBalls

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 10:28:02 PM »
And for christs sake ditch the shorty Fram filter!   :o

;)

LO


If you are running that shorty due to clearance you should check out this adapter from Ford Racing:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-6880-A50/10002/-1?parentProductId=748369
  • Boat #1: '75 Hallett Bubbledeck w/460 Ford
  • Boat #2: '73 Hallett 21' Cruiser
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 09:19:26 AM »
Okay I ordered the windage tray and main cap bolts from dooley. The pan is a correct fitment, it's just a very old one he said, hopefully I wont have too many issues. So if I order that Melling M84BHV-S oil pump, that pickup I got with the pan should work.

As for the shorty fram I dont have clearance to run a full filter and that other filter kit will not work. Maybe a complete filter relocation kit. What filter would you guys recommend, Thank you all!
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HaulsBalls

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 09:45:47 AM »
What kind of motor mount are you using? Headers?

I have this on my 460 with logs and 4 point mounts running a full size filter with no problem, it can be rotated in almost any direction just mounts to the block filter area the one bolt.
  • Boat #1: '75 Hallett Bubbledeck w/460 Ford
  • Boat #2: '73 Hallett 21' Cruiser
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 08:52:25 PM »
I am running the same setup but will be swapping to a set of Hooker headers. I didn't know you could rotate it, that might just work then! I will look into it, got the pan sandblasted today and just giving it a really good cleaning, hopefully I will get the oil pump coming this weekend.
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 07:40:07 AM »
Not to get completely off track, but since I am putting on a edelbrock performer intake and Hooker headers, what carb should I upgrade to. I could only get my rpms up to like 3200-3500 last season mostly because my secondaries werent opening I found out. Need a mechanical douple pumper, but what CFM, I was thinking 850 what about you guys
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LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2011, 08:49:57 AM »
...I am putting on a edelbrock performer intake and Hooker headers, what carb should I upgrade to. I could only get my rpms up to like 3200-3500 last season mostly because my secondaries werent opening I found out. Need a mechanical douple pumper, but what CFM, I was thinking 850 what about you guys
If you have an Edelbrock "Performer RPM," then that's okay for your application.  If the intake is just Edelbrock "Performer," then it's not a great choice and pass on it/find something different.

Use a Holley 850 cfm double pumper, List # 4781.

Without knowing the exact details fo your engine, set your ignition timing to about 32* BTDC @ 3000 rpm (NOT at idle). And be sure to do spark plug readings and jet your new carburetor for the engine combination and tune.  You ought to see about another 1500 rpm or so, depending on jet pump.

LO
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 08:57:55 PM »
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IRRebel

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 09:23:40 PM »
If you have an Edelbrock "Performer RPM," then that's okay for your application.  If the intake is just Edelbrock "Performer," then it's not a great choice and pass on it/find something different.

Use a Holley 850 cfm double pumper, List # 4781.

Without knowing the exact details fo your engine, set your ignition timing to about 32* BTDC @ 3000 rpm (NOT at idle). And be sure to do spark plug readings and jet your new carburetor for the engine combination and tune.  You ought to see about another 1500 rpm or so, depending on jet pump.

LO

Not to challenge you Paul, lord knows you've educated me more than quite a few times!  :thumbup:  But this is a Mini Day that probably has an enclosed engine compartment. So the Holley list # 80443 marine DP is probably a wiser idea in this case don't you think?

Also, just thinking out loud, since this is NOT a hot rod, what's really wrong with using his Performer on it? I realize the original cast iron Marine D00E (429 SCJ) intake found on most all boat 460's is pretty hard to beat as far as the aftermarket in a dual plane, and THAT is the bar that's set on these boat engines. But if he doesn't have the D00E to fall back on (They're getting $70 bucks and better on Ebay these days), What's he to do? I kinda doubt he's going to see the real benefits that the RPM or Weiand Stealth is going to offer in this application, but you know better than me on that!  ;)

Ray
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2011, 11:01:24 AM »
So I got the correct oil pump with the part number you guys gave me. I will put on the oil pan this weekend.

Now the next issue, I have a set of Hooker headers and of course they dont make injection lines for them anymore that I can find.
Can I re bend the stainless bassett ones I have with a tubing bender? Does anyone know if the bassett brass fittings will fit into the Hooker headers.
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LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2011, 05:39:26 PM »
...this is a Mini Day that probably has an enclosed engine compartment. So the Holley list # 80443 marine DP is probably a wiser idea in this case don't you think?
Oh...yeah, if it has an enclosed engine compartment the J-tubes are probably required.  Didn't mean to steer anyone down the wrong road.

what's really wrong with using his Performer on it?

Ray
In my opinion even the Edlebrock RPM is a little "smallish" even for this jet boat application, but it is tolerable. That's why
I said, "If you have an Edelbrock 'Performer RPM,' then that's okay for your application." But if he doesn't have one
(if he actually has just an Edelbrock Performer) then I feel it's inappropriate for a jet boat engine.

All that being said, indeed if this mini day cruiser spends all its time cruising around at 3000 rpm, then the
Edelbrock Performer (non-RPM) will suffice. But, use the non-RPM intake for 4000-5000 rpm and
pushing that big boat around will be  little more difficult for the engine.

LO
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 05:44:07 PM by LakesOnly »
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Dooley Oil Pan Question
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 07:18:43 PM »
I checked the intake manifold I have and it is just a Performer manifold, sucks I just had it powdercoated. Is the stock manifold better? Also this is in an 18ft Tahiti not the day cruiser I scratched that project a while back
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2011, 07:26:51 PM »
I got the timing cover and water pump cover and the front motor mount on today. I put the windage tray and main cap bolts on as well I got from Dooley. When trying to install the pickup tube I realized when they brazed it to fix it the plate where it bolts to the main cap was a little off. Then when snugging every thing down I broke the mounting bracket on my new oil pump  :banghead:
So I wroke a nice message to the guy I bought the pan and pickup from on PB, he told me it was all in good condition.

Next step, buy another oil pump again and get a pickup tube from Dooley that hasn't been fucked over by some dumbass

I could of bought a brand new setup from Dooley for how much this is costing me so far! Just feel like venting!
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LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2011, 09:33:55 AM »
When trying to install the pickup tube I realized when they brazed it to fix it the plate where it
bolts to the main cap was a little off. Then when snugging every thing down I
broke the mounting bracket on my new oil pump
   :banghead:

Next step, buy another oil pump again and get a pickup tube from Dooley that hasn't been
fucked over by some dumbass
Your disregard to properly fit the aftermarket components to your custom engine build is
the reason the pump broke, and also the number one reason for the Ford 460 oil pump breaking and
why it has received an erroneously poor reputation on the internet, not because of some other
"dumbass" as you allege.

Your oil pump broke because you stressed it while forcing the pickup tube mountng bracket
into place. You should have test fitted the part, evaluated the amount of adjustment necessary
(in order to locate the mounting bracket to the mounting stud), then removed the pickup and
adjusted the mounting bracket, then rechecked fitment, and repeat this process as many times as
necessary until all mating parts seat perfectly before any bolts are installed and tightened.


Instead, you forced your pickup support bracket into place (to the main bolt's stand-off stud), which
sends a lot of leveraged load against the pump, and thereby stresses the neck of the pump before you
even finished bulding your engine!

If you were installing your connecting rods to your crankshaft and the rods didn't fit because
the crankshaft's rod journals were too large for the big end of the rods, would you tighten the rod
bolts and force the rod caps around the crankshaft journal anyway???  How about a distributor that didn't
drop into the block, would you install the bolt-down clamp at the distributor base and drive it in?
Of course not.

90% of the time when someone comes onto the internet and claims that their BBF oil pump broke, they
are oblivous to the fact that it broke due to their poor setup during installation. That part of the story is
unknowingly ommited and instead the story is started at the point of oil pump breakage.

Avenger, my intention is not to isolate your situation and beat you up; I do mean to use this as an
example of what many, many people mistakenly do during engine assembly (not just you).   Lucky for
you your pump broke in front of you due to your install and not while you were flying along in your boat.

LO
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 09:40:03 AM by LakesOnly »
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2011, 10:27:24 AM »
Yea your right I should of made sure it fit flawlessly before installation because when I bolted the pump and pickup the pickup tabs were a good amount off. l wish I would of just bought a whole setup from Dooley to begin with and saved myself some coin. Oh well can't change the past just wish there were more honest people in the world. And know offense taken LO, I appreciate all the help you have given me along the way and taking the time to educate me even over the phone. Sorry about the venting

Oh and by reading the above by LO I swear you were hiding in my shop watching the whole thing ;D
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 10:30:11 AM by avengerdaycruiser »
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avengerdaycruiser

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2011, 07:49:32 PM »
So getting closer today I picked up another oil pump and got it mounted, just need to call dooley and get another pickup coming monday, then I can get the pan on and the motor back in.

My next question is will a stock mech fuel pump be sufficient for my motor. I am planning on running a 850DP mech secondaries. Or do I need to get a high flow elec fuel pump?
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76NORDIC

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2011, 05:59:04 PM »
What about the performer 460 mani ??? opinions ???
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2011, 06:30:25 PM »
Oh and by reading the above by LO I swear you were hiding in my shop watching the whole thing ;D
haha! Don't feel bad, like I said I've watch it done like that on quite a few occassions...you're not the only one.  And now you know how to do it correctly.
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LakesOnly

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Re: BBF Build
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2011, 06:34:51 PM »
What about the performer 460 mani.  opinions ?
If you have a "Performer RPM" (not just a "Performer") then you can work the insides of the intake (port it) and add a carb spacer between the carb and and manifold and it will work alright.

The Performer (non-RPM) is better suited for a car or truck than it is a boat. Of course, with a plain Performer the boat engine will still run....  ???

LO
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