Bearing failure?

« **on:** July 08, 2015, 04:38:25 PM »

I put my 496 together in time for the 4th weekend, during the assembly, my bearing clearance was a little on the tighter side, but nun the less everything was checked and double checked, during the break in, motor ran great with 50 psi oil pressure. I changed the oil / filter and checked every bolt to make sure everything was good and tight, Friday around noon, I took the boat for its first test putt up to make sure everything was still in working order, so far so good👍, so I loaded up my family and headed down river to the sand bar, once again everything was working great, about an hour later we were headed back up river to the cove, and out of know where engine loses power and oil pressure, long story short, when I pulled the distributer out there is little pieces of bearing in the oil galley!! 👎👎😡, anyone have an idea what might have caused the bearing to take a shit on me? I'm using king racing bearings and melling std volume pump

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« **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2015, 05:10:54 PM »

Yes it definitely sounds like you've had some sort of mechanical failure, perhaps it was a bearing. I recently had a friend of mine assemble an engine for a marine application, everything looked and sounded good during a driveway break in procedure, but when that engine saw a load in the jet boat it was over pretty quick as a rod bearing failed and then windowed the block. As I asked oil clearance questions and how it was checked, the method used I somewhat frowned upon. Bearings just don’t fail for any reason; it’s either from insufficient oil clearances or other foreign debris from a separate failing part. You really won’t know until you have the engine out and all apart to see everything. When you said you’re oil clearances were a little on the tight side, how tight was that? On a marine engine I like to generally see .003-.0035 on the mains and rod journals. It’s when you put that engine under a load and make it work that’s when things that were missed during assembly will show their face really fast. Unfortunately it’s going to take time and some more expense to correct before you can take it out again. Sorry for your loss and frustration.

« **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2015, 12:18:56 PM »

What engine bearings would everyone recommend? Acl, king?

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« **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2015, 12:32:00 PM »

Like I stated yesterday, once you have the entire engine disassembled to inspect and analyze the parts and damage, then you can move foreword. The suspected bearing failure is not the bearings fault, bearings just don’t fail for no reason, that’s problem “B”, you have to locate problem “A”, the route cause. If you are using a 4340 forged crank, you need to use a harder bearing; I have had good luck with Clevite77 H series bearings.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2015, 01:32:00 PM »

Quote from: eliminator18 on July 09, 2015, 12:18:56 PM

What engine bearings would everyone recommend? Acl, king?

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Is my personal opinion that bearing manufacturer is almost as irrelevant as what brand oil you use.

You have had something actually fail.

The first thing I would check for is cam walk.

When you say tight bearing clearances, how tight we talking? .

GT

« **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2015, 02:08:13 PM »

Quote from: 86caribbean on July 09, 2015, 12:32:00 PM

Like I stated yesterday, once you have the entire engine disassembled to inspect and analyze the parts and damage, then you can move foreword. The suspected bearing failure is not the bearings fault, bearings just don’t fail for no reason, that’s problem “B”, you have to locate problem “A”, the route cause. If you are using a 4340 forged crank, you need to use a harder bearing; I have had good luck with Clevite77 H series bearings.

I second that. I like the Clevite77 H series myself. Need to pull everything apart and see what the actual cause was. Also just asking was the blocked checked by the machine shop and made sure the mains were sized correctly or line bored. I've seen in many applications you can have all the right bearing clearances when measured but once everything is torqued down it makes thinks a little tight. Just a thought.

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« **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:37:36 PM »

Waz the block properly cleaned from the last failure

« **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:58:12 PM »

Milk shake oil!! There is water in my oil, which I'm assuming is the cause for bearing failure!! Time to tear it apart and see how bad see really is

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« **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:35:44 PM »

So my next question is, since I used felpro 1037 head gaskets to seal my 781 heads to my gen v block and still had water leak into oil valley, what would everyone recommend I do at this point? Try a different head gasket and chance water getting back into the oil valley or put a set of after market heads on the block? But I'm not sure a new set of aftermarket heads will keep water from leaking into the block as well?

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« **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:14:02 PM »

Could you verify for sure that the head gaskets are the source of the leak? Are they still in one piece? Lay one over the block and head to see if one of the passages is uncovered.

Are the head bolt holes blind or open into the coolant passages like a Mark IV? If open, did you seal them? Did the intake gaskets seal? You should see evidence of where the water was leaking.

« **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:25:20 PM »

I have not pulled the heads yet, but the intake manifold gaskets look good, with no signs of water getting by, and yes the head bolts were installed with sealant, I will pull the heads off tomorrow morning for a more in depth look at the head gaskets

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« **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2015, 12:42:31 PM »

Pulled the heads this morning and found the cylinders rusty!!

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« **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2015, 12:52:25 PM »

Quote from: eliminator18 on July 11, 2015, 12:42:31 PM

Pulled the heads this morning and found the cylinders rusty!!

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As clean as those pistons are, you have a reversion issue.

GT

« **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2015, 07:07:27 PM »

Did you get a chance to pull any of the rod or main caps?

« **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2015, 07:10:12 PM »

Yes, mains are in great shape, but the rods are toast!! Also found out the oil pick up tube had fallen off

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« **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2015, 07:13:39 PM »

Rods are no good

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« **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2015, 07:36:03 PM »

Textbook reversion damage.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2015, 07:57:36 PM »

How do I prevent this from happening again?? Just run the headers dry?

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« **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2015, 08:11:08 PM »

Quote from: eliminator18 on July 11, 2015, 07:57:36 PM

How do I prevent this from happening again?? Just run the headers dry?

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Need the cam specifications and how she's plumbed.

How tight were those rods bearings?

GT

« **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2015, 08:15:35 PM »

Cam card

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« **Reply #20 on:** July 11, 2015, 08:38:14 PM »

Quote from: eliminator18 on July 11, 2015, 08:15:35 PM

Cam card

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You cam eliminate the cam being the issue.

At what rpm did the water come in? Was there ANY water at idle?

« **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2015, 02:44:40 AM »

Just an idea for your future build, i tack weld all my pickups to the pump so they cant fall off...

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« **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2015, 04:49:59 AM »

^^^X2^^^ Disassemble the pump so the heat doesn't kill the bypass spring. I used to braze mine 360-degrees to ensure the pump won't suck air.

I now prefer to use Loctite 640 Sleeve Retaining Compound so that I don't distort the pump housing from heat.

What brand of oil pan/pickup are you running? Many have pickups with a brace that utilizes two of the pump cover bolts to secure it. I think this with the Loctite 640 is the best route.
The reversion is another issue, but the rod bearings failure is from running dry. You are not far from Castillo’s Crankshaft Specialist, 14654 Firestone Blvd, La Mirada, CA 90638, (714) 523-0321. They can advise you on your crankshaft and perform anything needed. You can probably have just your rod journals ground .010 under. It will not affect your balance.

I agree that the rods are probably done. Replacing them shouldn't be an overly huge expense. Inspect your pistons, you might be able to re-use them if the skirts are not too scuffed and the ring lands are not damaged. Looks like pressed pins in the picture, hopefully they can be saved.

Inspect your cam, it might need a regrind, but that's cheaper than a new one. The bores should (hopefully) clean up with a quick hone.

I think it is entirely doable and probably less than buying a short block.

« **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2015, 11:23:45 PM »

Looks like two issues here loss oil pressure from oil pickup falling apart and the water in cylinders from most likely water still going in at idle , new rods and crank and try it out again
Honestly on fresh motors always try to run dry the first test and check for milkshake then inject water and the second test and go from there

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