Blower vs nitrous

« **on:** January 01, 2015, 11:06:41 PM »

Ok guys need some opinions, I have a approx. 400 lb 18 California performance. My current motor set up is a 468 8.5-1 running 8lbs boost with merlin iron heads and 2 850 carbs. My bebate is a nitrous motor or putting heads on my current set up. Only because of weight. I personally love blowers and die heart blower guy but seems to me all the fast wingers have nitrous motors. Appreciate all opinions

"RTCP"

« **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2015, 11:08:45 PM »

Quote from: capogniracing on January 01, 2015, 11:06:41 PM

Ok guys need some opinions, I have a approx. 400 lb 18 California performance. My current motor set up is a 468 8.5-1 running 8lbs boost with merlin iron heads and 2 850 carbs. My bebate is a nitrous motor or putting heads on current set up. Only because of weight. I personally love blowers and die heart blower guy but seems to me all the fast wingers have nitrous motors. Appreciate all opinions

"RTCP"

"RTCP"

« **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2015, 11:16:27 PM »

orrrr twin turbo 555?

« **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2015, 11:20:40 PM »

Quote from: ka0tyk on January 01, 2015, 11:16:27 PM

orrrr twin turbo 555?

ha ha that would be nice. I'm only debating nitrous be cause there is a pretty sweet deal on PB for a nitrous motor.

RTCP

« **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2015, 07:32:56 AM »

Weigh a 1471, inter cooler and a pair of dominator. Then weigh a digger kit that makes 500 hp with a full bottle, single carb manifold and single dominator and get back with me. The only place I think the have the advantage on a river boat the cool factor just don't lose the cool factor by lining up against wrong NOS boat. You may get your shorts yanked down. Most importantly they are always bigger and badder of both. If your a blower guy stick with the blower. After all 100 mph is very respectable.

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« **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2015, 07:34:43 AM »

That was fogger kit my phone does not like that word

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« **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2015, 08:22:40 AM »

Quote from: jimpen on January 02, 2015, 07:32:56 AM

Weigh a 1471, inter cooler and a pair of dominator. Then weigh a digger kit that makes 500 hp with a full bottle, single carb manifold and single dominator and get back with me. The only place I think the have the advantage on a river boat the cool factor just don't lose the cool factor by lining up against wrong NOS boat. You may get your shorts yanked down. Most importantly they are always bigger and badder of both. If your a blower guy stick with the blower. After all 100 mph is very respectable.

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We need to get your boat back together and see what this laughing gas stuffs all about. My question is a 700 hp na motor with a 250 shot keep up with a 950 hp blower motor??

"RTCP"

« **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2015, 08:25:51 AM »

"RTCP"

« **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2015, 08:59:51 AM »

It just basic math hp does not know how it's made. Your setup will determine what you will get from a 250 shot

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« **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2015, 09:13:00 AM »

Another factor torque lines?!? Do nitrous motors compare to a roots??

"RTCP"

« **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2015, 12:31:33 PM »

If I were you, I would loose the heads and go with an aluminum head like Brodix or dart. You'll gain some hp and Loose some pounds. Wile your at it, take that 468 and turn it into a 496???

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« **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2015, 12:46:32 PM »

Quote from: jyeager on January 02, 2015, 12:31:33 PM

If I were you, I would loose the heads and go with an aluminum head like Brodix or dart. You'll gain some hp and Loose some pounds. Wile your at it, take that 468 and turn it into a 496???

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This will definitely be a considered option 👍👍

"RTCP"

« **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2015, 04:49:04 PM »

I know that blower motor jets like a larger cut of impeller than comparable N2O boats.

Regarding weight, seems that about 70lbs = .1 second. Here is a recent thread on that brand X forum that reinforces this belief http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-boats/#/forumsite/20586/topics/260913

The aluminum heads should be a given and will allow you to run an additional pound of boost or an additional point of compression (NA). Each application will work best with application specific porting and valve sizing. Keep in mind that NA/N2O flow really wakes up with larger bores starting at 4.375 diameter. Boosted, smaller valves can flow more with less shrouding by smaller bores. Either way, a good flowing exhaust is required to handle the increased volume of combustion residuals.

Either engine can benefit from increased flow that corresponds with a larger cylinder bore, but a larger bore is also greater surface area that can have greater tendency for detonation.

I am a firm believer in starting with a clean slate with a new engine build. You will have less compromises and you end result will be more favorable. And you can continue to enjoy your current engine, new heads or not.

Cheers,

Joe

« **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2015, 11:18:31 PM »

Quote from: Flusher on January 02, 2015, 04:49:04 PM

I know that blower motor jets like a larger cut of impeller than comparable N2O boats.

Regarding weight, seems that about 70lbs = .1 second. Here is a recent thread on that brand X forum that reinforces this belief http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-boats/#/forumsite/20586/topics/260913

The aluminum heads should be a given and will allow you to run an additional pound of boost or an additional point of compression (NA). Each application will work best with application specific porting and valve sizing. Keep in mind that NA/N2O flow really wakes up with larger bores starting at 4.375 diameter. Boosted, smaller valves can flow more with less shrouding by smaller bores. Either way, a good flowing exhaust is required to handle the increased volume of combustion residuals.

Either engine can benefit from increased flow that corresponds with a larger cylinder bore, but a larger bore is also greater surface area that can have greater tendency for detonation.

I am a firm believer in starting with a clean slate with a new engine build. You will have less compromises and you end result will be more favorable. And you can continue to enjoy your current engine, new heads or not.

Cheers,

Joe

I would love to start a completely new build, bottom line is I have about 7k set aside and want to get the best result. Only reason for even considering a nitrous set up is Andy Ralls has a screaming deal for a nitrous motor and it could be within that 7k budget. I have yet to give him a call and find out any hp or what impeller he ran at what rpms. Just wanna make the right choice and get the most for money.

RTCP

« **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:00:25 AM »

Just for fits & shiggles, remember on a bad weather day, the blower makes its own atmosphere, nitrous can't. You've got a great setup as is, stud the top, new heads, give yourself a lil' more boost, and I think you'll be happier.

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« **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:43:56 AM »

Quote from: chrisx2 on January 03, 2015, 07:00:25 AM

Just for fits & shiggles, remember on a bad weather day, the blower makes its own atmosphere, nitrous can't. You've got a great setup as is, stud the top, new heads, give yourself a lil' more boost, and I think you'll be happier.

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Thanks chrisx2, I'm really leaning toward that opinion. Heads and a lil more boost should do the trick.

"RTCP"

« **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:46:21 AM »

Quote from: Flusher on January 02, 2015, 04:49:04 PM

I know that blower motor jets like a larger cut of impeller than comparable N2O boats.

Regarding weight, seems that about 70lbs = .1 second. Here is a recent thread on that brand X forum that reinforces this belief http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-boats/#/forumsite/20586/topics/260913

The aluminum heads should be a given and will allow you to run an additional pound of boost or an additional point of compression (NA). Each application will work best with application specific porting and valve sizing. Keep in mind that NA/N2O flow really wakes up with larger bores starting at 4.375 diameter. Boosted, smaller valves can flow more with less shrouding by smaller bores. Either way, a good flowing exhaust is required to handle the increased volume of combustion residuals.

Either engine can benefit from increased flow that corresponds with a larger cylinder bore, but a larger bore is also greater surface area that can have greater tendency for detonation.

I am a firm believer in starting with a clean slate with a new engine build. You will have less compromises and you end result will be more favorable. And you can continue to enjoy your current engine, new heads or not.

Cheers,

Joe

« **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:48:33 AM »

At what psi should you o ring??! I was always told above 12. I will also be staying with MLS head gaskets. And am currently studed.

"RTCP"

« **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2015, 09:21:13 AM »

Haven't played with nitrous too much, but it would seem to me that a blower deal would be way more consistent. By consistent I mean it is simpler to get Stoichiometric numbers under almost any weather condition and altitude.

I would push for aluminum heads and reverse the water flow (heads first).

I have always heard the 12lbs. rule as well, although what would it hurt to do it at lower boost numbers? (answer;, nothing but the wallet)...

The thing I dislike most about nitrous is that it just seems so temporary to me. But then again, you have to realize that I came up through the marathon world, our junk had to run for an hour at a time at a setting of balls out. Not just a handful of seconds. Makes it a different game all together.

JMHO

GT

« **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2015, 09:39:45 AM »

Quote from: capogniracing on January 02, 2015, 09:13:00 AM

Another factor torque lines?!? Do nitrous motors compare to a roots??

"RTCP"

No... IMHO the roots will have a torque curve that falls off as the engine speed gets passed a certain point. Because the faster the blower spins, the more HP it requires. IMHO perfect for a jet application, because you don't want to spin a whole bunch of RPM to begin with. (debatable, but I wont go there right now).

As for the nitrous deal, you are only limited by the volume/bottle pressure. So it's really an unfair contest, the N2o dealio will only sustain it's performance as long as the system charge will keep up. Cold bottle/weather, less performance/sustained bottle pressure. The blower however can run back to back to back runs, even in a hot lap situation, especially if you injected it on alcohol...

GT

« **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:04:32 AM »

Quote from: GT Jets on January 03, 2015, 09:39:45 AM

No... IMHO the roots will have a torque curve that falls off as the engine speed gets passed a certain point. Because the faster the blower spins, the more HP it requires. IMHO perfect for a jet application, because you don't want to spin a whole bunch of RPM to begin with. (debatable, but I wont go there right now).

As for the nitrous deal, you are only limited by the volume/bottle pressure. So it's really an unfair contest, the N2o dealio will only sustain it's performance as long as the system charge will keep up. Cold bottle/weather, less performance/sustained bottle pressure. The blower however can run back to back to back runs, even in a hot lap situation, especially if you injected it on alcohol...

GT

That is some good info! Thanks GT. I think I might just keep the blower. I'm pretty set to just change heads and maybe stroke it to a 496. And I'm with you on O ringing. If its appart might as well do it right. I'm not really looking to run more than 10lbs and not sure if didn't hi helix I could get any more efficient power. And plans are to also add a intercooler. I'm looking to get around 950-1000hp. I will also be running a AB impeller. All I'm looking for is to give a couple guys a run. I know ill never be the fastest but I also don't wanna have my a$$ handed to me every time lol

"RTCP"

« **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2015, 11:42:03 AM »

Quote from: capogniracing on January 03, 2015, 10:04:32 AM

That is some good info! Thanks GT. I think I might just keep the blower. I'm pretty set to just change heads and maybe stroke it to a 496. And I'm with you on O ringing. If its appart might as well do it right. I'm not really looking to run more than 10lbs and not sure if didn't hi helix I could get any more efficient power. And plans are to also add a intercooler. I'm looking to get around 950-1000hp. I will also be running a AB impeller. All I'm looking for is to give a couple guys a run. I know ill never be the fastest but I also don't wanna have my a$$ handed to me every time lol

"RTCP"

When I took my blower to be freshened up at Littlefield, they would not consider a hi-helix for a gasoline application. Alcohol only

« **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2015, 11:51:40 AM »

Quote from: Flusher on January 03, 2015, 11:42:03 AM

When I took my blower to be freshened up at Littlefield, they would not consider a hi-helix for a gasoline application. Alcohol only

Ya I heard the same thing. I know of a few drags guys that have done it on gas but it appears to be a drag only application. 👎

"RTCP"

« **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2015, 11:53:38 AM »

Quote from: Flusher on January 03, 2015, 11:42:03 AM

When I took my blower to be freshened up at Littlefield, they would not consider a hi-helix for a gasoline application. Alcohol only

I would say an HH would be OK with extensive bowl work and detailing and a properly set up shoe and loader. Once the hull moves five feet, I would call the HH issues moot.

Then again, may just be me.

We got to play with a custom high lift impeller years ago, all I remember is the bowl pressures were higher at lower RPM and fell off at speed (I read into that to be severe cavitation). The HH impellers increase the torque demand in the middle, (read; more bite).

I am still not sold on the idea of High Helix impellers. Seems to be some majorly contradicting results floating around out there.

Load it, straighten it and control the restriction on the nozzle, that is where the science is. JMHO

Make sure the impeller is enhanced for the given RPM and that the bowl reflects the same enhancements and it negates anything an HH can do..... Hope I didn't strike a nerve.

GT

« **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2015, 12:00:57 PM »

Hi-helix rotors require a new case and possibly a new manifold. Rotors have side strips to facilitate rotor to rotor sealing for alcohol and are clearanced tighter. I hear that the side strips create too much heat in a gas application.